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A whole lot of those folks have evolved nicely, however, and would not see David Duke that way now and would not vote for him.
I wonder if this only applies to white people.
They have been evolving, for decades, in the direction of the sort of tolerant and democratic norms I want to see everywhere. They did this, in part, under the intense pressure of enlightened liberal public opinion. You never read a liberal saying that a poor ignorant white Klan member was just reacting to his bad social circumstances, that we had it coming to us if he set off a bomb somewhere, look what we did to the South under Occupation, etc. No, the liberal condemnation of Southern white racism was total and unrelenting, without a scintilla of "understanding"
That certainly didn't occur to me. The comment however was in reference to specifically white people in Louisiana that another member brought up.
Do you think it only applies to white people?
I claim that a significantly large, worrying minority -- sometimes, on some issues, close to a majority -- of UK Muslims hold deeply illiberal views, stemming from their adherence to Islam, on issues relating to the values and norms of liberal democracy.
Shogun: The thing is, when you talk about my supposed claim that "liberals want Sharia law instituted" I don't know what to make of you.
Because ... either you believe what you have written. In which case, you are hopelessly incompetent and stupid. Or you don't. In which case, you are not worth arguing with, because you are dishonest. And I suspect that this is not a conclusion that is unique to me.
For the record ... just in case anyone is reading just the last few posts of this thread ... I have never, ever said, hinted, or implied that I believe liberals "want Sharia law instituted". That claim is just a flat lie.
And by the way, I do happen to know something about surveys and their reliability. Don't talk about things which are outside your range of knowledge.
Anyway, I still hold open my offer: I have made some specific claims about Muslim opinion in the UK. You have not answered them. I have even given you a chance to win some serious money from me. You have not taken it. I assume it's because you sense that I wouldn't make a bet that I was not absolutely sure I could win. And you would be right.
I also see that I have tended to elide you and MidCan together, which is a mistake. Although he is in error, I think he is an honest debater.
So I would like to re-pose my challenge to him.
I claim that a significantly large, worrying minority -- sometimes, on some issues, close to a majority -- of UK Muslims hold deeply illiberal views, stemming from their adherence to Islam, on issues relating to the values and norms of liberal democracy.
I quantified my argument in a previous post.
What do you (MidCan) think about this? (I assume no other liberal is reading this thread, or chooses to be involved in the argument.)
While I don't know that to be true, I would probably agree. It is not outside the realm of the possible even in my rose colored world. Where we disagree is on what that eventually means. My crystal ball says while it may cause trouble, in a tolerant yet critical republic / democracy there are enough institutions and laws to transition the majority of Muslims into the modern world - just like Louisiana.