Microsoft's New Commercial

[KittenKoder]

I hear what you are saying.. but, again.. how low did red hat plateau before it was on to the next attempt to challenge the king of the hill? MS has it's problems.. And i'm sure you have features that you really enjoy... but shop talk doesn't go far with end users and people enjoy the compatibility that Windows provides.

Also take note, Linux is Open Source, most compiles of it are unique in some way or another because it depends on the contributers to that specific project. Ubuntu is also open source, but instead of different compiles for the whole system contributers create widgets and modules that you can select from instead of getting everything at once or having to upgrade the entire system.

 

[Shogun]

meh.. we hear that kind of talk every time something tries to charge at the king of the hill. You are probably not taking the same perspective as the average end user, yo. To you it's all just code. To them it's damn near 20+ years as the standard in operating systems (on a gui level). We'll see what happens.. But my money is that you;ll be amped up about the next big thing to come along that seems to challenge the standard MS product.

 

[Shogun]

Also take note, Linux is Open Source, most compiles of it are unique in some way or another because it depends on the contributers to that specific project. Ubuntu is also open source, but instead of different compiles for the whole system contributers create widgets and modules that you can select from instead of getting everything at once or having to upgrade the entire system.

do you think that the average end user is trying to compile their own OS?

 

[KittenKoder]

do you think that the average end user is trying to compile their own OS?

I think you missed the whole point. Red Hat is one of many Linux versions, compiled by contributers and not the main Linux. I was explaining to you the difference between it and other Linux OS's. Also, MS isn't the king, and never was. It was just popular. Also, I have been an avid MS supporter ... until Bill left the big decisions to the current morons who completely fucked up the OS. The compiling thing is why most people fear Linux, they think they have to compile everything. It's a misnomer, when you install into Windoze it has to compile part of the code for each unique setup, they just call it 'install' while Linux has called it 'compile'. Compiling source code for Linux though it automated so often the packages you install will come as source code, then Debian compiles it all for you. As I said, you have to try it before you can even understand. The difference though, Ubuntu/Linux has better international support than Windoze ever has or ever will have. This is why Windoze has lost a LOT of ground to Ubuntu already, the US is just slow to change, a fear of change is what MS has fed on for too long. Ubuntu can also run a lot of Windoze software, just install Wine and almost everything runs, what doesn't there is a Linux alternative for already. Also, any document supported by Windoze OR Mac is supported by Linux and more (MNG is not supported by Windoze at all for instance). Java is quickly replacing the API's on most OS's (Open Office is Java based and is now the standard Office package for anyone who is serious about word processing, databases, etc.). Windoze is trying to stop people from switching but is failing because of that as well. Even Mac sales are up and I don't generally like Mac (just overpriced toys). But Ubuntu is growing faster than any other GUI for Linux has, and Linux has become more popular than Windoze in most areas because of Ubuntu. Stocks for MS are also down, soon they will no longer have a strangle hold on the computer industry, maybe they will learn from their mistake but I don't see that happening before they fall flat. The thing you have to remember, Microsoft has never advertised like this before, and for a good reason. Now they need it, their stocks are dropping, they have crested, and like all technology they need to advance or get out of the way. Instead they are just trying the same old shit that started the downward trend. Ubuntu however will never have to charge a dime for their OS since Linux is completely free. As long as people keep giving them funding they will continue to increase support and eventually may be the next Microsoft.

 

[Shogun]

hehehe.. again, we'll see what happens. My money is still on MS products 5-10 years from now.

 

[Diuretic]

Have a look - DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

I'm going to have a look at Helix as a LiveCD, interesting tools there.

 

[KittenKoder]

I love it, Linux is actually improving with each release instead of just adding a bunch of extra graphics garbage. Sweet. I may have to keep an eye out and see if Ubuntu will have an upgrade soon.

 

[Diuretic]

Ibex is testing. I'm still with Gutsy because I had no end of problems with Hardy's PulseAudio and went back to the Gibbon because ALSA works well on my Pentium IV. I had exactly the same sound problems with FC8 so I think it's a kernel issue for me, not sure though. I have tried a few distros but I still like Ubuntu. I tried Gentoo a couple of times but it told me I was too stupid to use it

But Ubuntu just works - and of course, the command line is really useful.

 

[KittenKoder]

Sound cards are tricky now, the hardware drivers are mostly owned and controlled by MS, the greed is rampant there now, so they have to make work-arounds which usually require more testing to make them work and results in less stable software. We need to crash MS so the drivers are released to open source. *evil grin*

 

[KittenKoder]

I will never go back to MS.

 

[Diuretic]

Sound cards are tricky now, the hardware drivers are mostly owned and controlled by MS, the greed is rampant there now, so they have to make work-arounds which usually require more testing to make them work and results in less stable software. We need to crash MS so the drivers are released to open source. *evil grin*

I've got a SoundBlaster and ALSA seems to work okay, not sure if SB has decided to support open source or whether it just works as a fluke, but Pulse, bleh, not work.

 

[Diuretic]

I will never go back to MS.

My Linux journey began a few years ago when XP told me, after installing it after yet another crash, that I had to phone a support centre to get a code to validate or activate or whatever it is the Evil Empire wants us to do, the os.

Stuff that.

I had an old cd lying around from a magazine. It had TurboLinux on it. I gave it a try. Stuffed it up completely but it was interesting. So off I went and found a magazine with FC4 on it. I tried it and bingo! It worked. That was it. I purged myself of MS evilware products

 

[KittenKoder]

My Linux journey began a few years ago when XP told me, after installing it after yet another crash, that I had to phone a support centre to get a code to validate or activate or whatever it is the Evil Empire wants us to do, the os.

Stuff that.

I had an old cd lying around from a magazine. It had TurboLinux on it. I gave it a try. Stuffed it up completely but it was interesting. So off I went and found a magazine with FC4 on it. I tried it and bingo! It worked. That was it. I purged myself of MS evilware products

I just got tired of all the 'updates' taking up so much disk space and slowing everything down. Really, if XP was so great (Vista isn't any better) then why would they need to have such huge update files? Ubuntu/Linux replaces the old files instead of just adding new ones, and still doesn't require a reboot every time. My computer had 5 gig in updates for XP alone, with Ubuntu I used 5 gig total for the OS, GUI, and many drivers. Added more in and still less than 9 gig, even including all the Java libraries and compilers, plus Eclipse. Us coders use up HD space as much as hard core gamers, so we need space open all the time. Also, much more free software, I don't mine shareware but I hate spending money on something and not knowing if it will work or suit my needs. MA is trying to end third party programs altogether, which is stupid.

 

[Shogun]

I'd expect that activation keys are easier than requiring a dongle every time you boot your machine. been on the IRC lately? I'd have almost expected a java writer to sympathize with software copyright violations that predate the music industry and mp3 by a decade...

 

[KittenKoder]

I'd expect that activation keys are easier than requiring a dongle every time you boot your machine. been on the IRC lately? I'd have almost expected a java writer to sympathize with software copyright violations that predate the music industry and mp3 by a decade...

I will only reply to what I understood, because I didn't get the relavance on some of it so not ignoring it just asking for clarification.

I can't stand IRC, it's full of security holes you wouldn't believe. The Java clients are the most secure but anything you send over can be read by anyone, and it's ALL logged, even private messages.

Many of the copyrights for software are forcibly purchased by MS now, not willingly given, which is one of the reasons many coders are getting the details from the manufacturers who are just looking the other way, you sell more products the more people that are able to use them. Also, copyright protection on anything you can access over the web is almost impossible to enforce effectively, it costs more time, money, and effort than to just be thankful for the honest people who download your software. I even give sub-pojects away for free to entice them, that usually works because then if they don't want to pay they play with the free versions instead of put the effort into hacking the pay versions. MP3's are a problem only because someone was actually stupid enough to think they could control digital music copying better than tape cassettes. How many thousands of 'illegal' copies of music were on cassette? As with all art (and software), people will make copies with or without your permission, you just can't stop them. Also, the harder you try the more they steal it, a vicious and unavoidable cycle.

Now for the clarifications:

What does having an activation key/dongle have to do with what we were talking about? All Ubuntu requires every reboot is the same as Windoze, a password or you can set an auto-logon.

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh, and 90% of Java code is Open Source. I only charge for specific projects myself.

 

[KittenKoder]

Okay, I just now figured out the wording for the reply, instead of editing it, here is what I should have said:

The software copyrights are held by the programmer, not by the hardware manufacturer. Also, when a copyright for a specific driver is purchased by a software company they own the rights for that specific driver, any variation on the driver op-codes makes it a different driver, so a coder only has to alter how the software communicates with the hardware to make it a 'different' driver. Linksys is the only manufacturing company turning the copyrights over willingly and thus most coders have had to use trial and error (a VERY slow way) to make new drivers for them, others give their flow-schematics out to some of the coder groups (basically that shows which values produce which effects). The coders then develop a 'open source' or 'public domain' driver for the hardware. That allows them to give it out for free, and as long as no one collects money for it no other copyright for it can be used to sue, again the driver itself has to vary at least a little from the ones already under a copyright.

There, does that explain it better?

 

[Shogun]

Diuretic mentioned having to activate xp. Activating XP is a lot easier than having to have a dongle on the machine using the software for validation purposes. You know. Validation used by SOFTWARE writers to make sure that their products is not being used without due compensation. From the infamous "don't copy that floppy" PSA to my mention of the irc to torrents it's a pretty clear and constant issue within the commercial coding community. funny, how many Adobe products require the same kind of validation as MS products.. yet, we bitch about MS?


psheeesh..

 

[KittenKoder]

Diuretic mentioned having to activate xp. Activating XP is a lot easier than having to have a dongle on the machine using the software for validation purposes. You know. Validation used by SOFTWARE writers to make sure that their products is not being used without due compensation. From the infamous "don't copy that floppy" PSA to my mention of the irc to torrents it's a pretty clear and constant issue within the commercial coding community. funny, how many Adobe products require the same kind of validation as MS products.. yet, we bitch about MS?


psheeesh..

The only adobe I use or need is the Flash plugin. All my PDF needs are covered nicely with freeware and Ubuntu has a perfect built-in viewer. Never use anything else for Adobe beyond that. Software pirating as I said is something that you just can't stop, anymore than stopping the illegal viewing of movies or copying of them as well. You can police some pirating but not much. The MS lock-up is stupid, though I know how to hack it most people who are actually effected are the people who don't even know how to pirate anything, much less know that you can use the same activation code for all copies or even just get another persons activation for your copy. Most validation for software on Windoze is actually done in the registry, that's how you can take a shareware product and change the expiration dates each time it expires to avoid paying for it. Don't know how it's normally done on Mac. Linux doesn't bother, but then almost anything can be done through open source or freeware on Linux so no need, the pay programs you just pay for the hard copies. Almost all copyrights that MS uses can also be avoided by only releasing the stuff for free, thus why I went Java, they don't require your programs be free when you use their APIs. I'd go back to ASM but now that most OS's require native code that's just like making a stone knife in this day and age. The problem with Windoze and MS isn't their desperate attempts to recapture the dependence on their products, it's that their new products just plain suck, but so many people fear change, except many Mac users but they are the ones who will by any toy they are told is 'better' without knowing much about them anyway. Oh, and they were talking about having to re-install more than a certain number of times, Windoze XP and up will lock you out after a certain number, unless you know the work arounds.

 

[Shogun]

Adobe products from photoshop to aftereffects all use activation these days. And, it's for the same reason MS uses it. Regardless if you don't think pirating is able to be stopped these same companies use the same methods to minimize it. MS is hardly the only company that tries to protect its rights to their software. Activation keys are a lot easier than having to use hardware dongles to validate software. That was my original point to Diuretic.


MS products sucking is a matter of opinion. I would hardly expect a java programmer to have the same perspective as uncle bob.