Medicare for all.

[Staidhup]

If you want too screw something up turn it over to the government to run. Soc Sec, Medicare, VA…..we’re all designed with great intentions, however, they are run by politicians that failed in the private sector.

 

[ScorpioRising007]

As Baby Boomers we got shuffled into a huge group because returning war veterans came home and started families after an artificial pause of birthrate demography. Some of us who started school in the 1950’s remember class sizes of 40 students to one teacher.

We were lucky because Alexander Fleming and Jonas Salk gifted us clever medications that could eradicate deadly viruses like Small Pox and Polio while fighting bacterial infections that were killing both old and young.

But no one has come up with a cure for old age and so in 1965 Congress enacted Medicare under Title XVIII of the Social Security Act better known as Medicare. Medicare was established because the human frailty of aging is inescapable. In addition Medicare was put into place to provide medical coverage for people with disabilities that met certain criteria under the act.

Medicare has worked well as it was designed but it is under attack from democrats that want to swamp it with millions of healthy, able-bodied citizens. Medicare-for-All, championed by Bernie Sanders, follows the playbook of all socialist plans in that it targets the weakest in society, in this case the elderly who through no fault of their own, just got old.

Picture a pond with fifty fish in it all of the same species. The ecosystem remains in balance because the pond exists in a natural state. Now imagine someone dumping thousands of fish into the pond. What happens to those original fifty fish for which the pond was built? What happens to you when the pond is destroyed through the invasive dumping of interlopers that overrun and exhaust the resources of the environment?

Socialism appears throughout history because its supporters know that unlike Polio or small Pox, there is no cure for stupid. When they get control of the educational systems they spread the stupid of socialism like its new idea because as educators they are paid by socialist policies. They intend to be on the controlling end of socialism while you and I head to the camps of poverty and second class medicine.

Sander’s plan would outlaw all other forms of private health insurance by government edict. It’s the same closet communism we were warned against in those Comparative Government classes in the 1960’s before the National Education Association go its hands on educators.

Old?-You are forgiven. Stupid?-That’s your fault.


Medicare for All: A Disaster | The American Spectator | Politics is too important to be taken seriously.

My wife and I have been low wage earners most of our lives and have had many jobs with no health insurance coverage. Government handouts have helped my wife so much through the years I am all for Socialism and socialized medicine.

 

[Rigby5]

As Baby Boomers we got shuffled into a huge group because returning war veterans came home and started families after an artificial pause of birthrate demography. Some of us who started school in the 1950’s remember class sizes of 40 students to one teacher.

We were lucky because Alexander Fleming and Jonas Salk gifted us clever medications that could eradicate deadly viruses like Small Pox and Polio while fighting bacterial infections that were killing both old and young.

But no one has come up with a cure for old age and so in 1965 Congress enacted Medicare under Title XVIII of the Social Security Act better known as Medicare. Medicare was established because the human frailty of aging is inescapable. In addition Medicare was put into place to provide medical coverage for people with disabilities that met certain criteria under the act.

Medicare has worked well as it was designed but it is under attack from democrats that want to swamp it with millions of healthy, able-bodied citizens. Medicare-for-All, championed by Bernie Sanders, follows the playbook of all socialist plans in that it targets the weakest in society, in this case the elderly who through no fault of their own, just got old.

Picture a pond with fifty fish in it all of the same species. The ecosystem remains in balance because the pond exists in a natural state. Now imagine someone dumping thousands of fish into the pond. What happens to those original fifty fish for which the pond was built? What happens to you when the pond is destroyed through the invasive dumping of interlopers that overrun and exhaust the resources of the environment?

Socialism appears throughout history because its supporters know that unlike Polio or small Pox, there is no cure for stupid. When they get control of the educational systems they spread the stupid of socialism like its new idea because as educators they are paid by socialist policies. They intend to be on the controlling end of socialism while you and I head to the camps of poverty and second class medicine.

Sander’s plan would outlaw all other forms of private health insurance by government edict. It’s the same closet communism we were warned against in those Comparative Government classes in the 1960’s before the National Education Association go its hands on educators.

Old?-You are forgiven. Stupid?-That’s your fault.


Medicare for All: A Disaster | The American Spectator | Politics is too important to be taken seriously.

Totally wrong.

First of all, Medicare is not like a fish pond in any way.
A fish pond is a total and complete environment, with habitat, food source, oxygen, waste elimination, etc.
Medicare is not at all like that.
All Medicare does is paper work.
It does not provide the hospitals, doctors, drugs, testing, treatment, or anything.
That is all done by the private sector.
So then how can medicare help at all?
Because the private insurance companies force you to prepay 30 to 50 years in advance of when you will actually get any significant health care back out, and are charging about 10 times what the actual work costs.
All Medicare for all would do is eliminate all the useless layers that the private insurance companies slap on top of the real health care providers.

It is also a lie to claim that Medicare for all would make private insurance or health care illegal.
It does not.
It is supposed to just be a minimal safety net.

Another alternative would be to make VA facilities open to everyone.
They already exist, are everywhere, and way under used.
So they would be a very useful safety net as well.

 

[Rigby5]

Why don't the liberals look to reform and improve the system of Obamacare that they have ALREADY established and went through unprecedented parliamentary maneuvers to get it through? Are they giving up on the legacy of B. Hussein O already?

The Sanders Bill is an atrocity. It MANDATES that the taxpayers pay for abortions up to and including the date of birth, as well as Sex Change operations. Further, it PROHIBITS people from having their own medical insurance or hiring a doctor at their own expense. This will make it impossible for non-politically connected people from getting any kind of decent healthcare at all. Competent doctors would treat party apparatchiks and other VIP's. Wealthy individuals could go to Costa Rica or other off shore clinics. The rest of us, Deplorable Americans would be shit out of luck. Either be treated by bottom of the barrel quacks, or just die quickly.

Wrong.
Medicare for all does not at all prohibit private insurance or medical care.
And obviously all doctors like the idea of Medicare for all, so your claim that it would eliminate the best doctors, is totally false.

What the doctors do NOT like are insurance companies.
They force the doctors into tons of paperwork, and constantly try to deny care doctors want to give.
Doctors are the main force supporting Medicare for all.
Doctors would be paid MORE under Medicare for all, and it is just the insurance companies who would lose profits.

 

[Rigby5]

My wife and I have been low wage earners most of our lives and have had many jobs with no health insurance coverage. Government handouts have helped my wife so much through the years I am all for Socialism and socialized medicine.

I have had high wages, but as a contractor, rarely had or could afford health insurance.
I made too much to qualify for government handouts, and was forced to pay incredibly high prices for medical care, if I could even find any doctor or clinic who would even be willing to see me at all.

Socialized medicine is the only solution.
Insurance companies add nothing except to inflate the cost by over a factor of 10, and eliminate any ability to complain about price or quality, because you already prepaid.

 

[Rigby5]

If you want too screw something up turn it over to the government to run. Soc Sec, Medicare, VA…..we’re all designed with great intentions, however, they are run by politicians that failed in the private sector.

And yet Social Security, Medicare, and VA, all cost about a tenth of what similar private sector operations do.
And you can get people to listen to complaints about SS, Medicare, and VA.
Try to get anyone to listen to a complaint about an insurance company?
Never going to happen.
Once you prepay, they don't care any more.

 

[Rigby5]

We discuss (why don't libs fix it) at the office. Just like when the repubs started electing far right the libs have elected far left both are drowning out any sensibility of the moderates. But it seems many on both sides are embracing these far outs. Like Mac said above Sanders and Harris are using the term Medicare for All and all it boils down to is single payer which Medicare is not single payer.

I'm still for Medicare buy in at age 50, healthy people in that age group that are not receiving a large subsidy now would enjoy paying even $400 or so a month instead of the $1000 as an individual may be paying now.

Or

Go back to the old system of medical underwriting and if someone was declined or had conditions excluded let them buy into Medicare at any age for an age related premium.

But no in the end we'll stay with the screwed up obamacare we have today that will end up with more uninsured than before it's inception.

Yes Medicare for all IS single payer.
The problem now is that there are 3 payers.
1. You earn money at a job so are the original payer.
2. But you do work for your employer and he pays the insurance company premiums, so your employer is the second payer.
3. And finally is it your insurance company that you and your employer have prepaid, who then pay the actual medical care provider.

With Medicare for All, there is just one single payer, the government experts who can unify the forms, methods, conditions, checks, and criteria for all payments.
So instead of doctors and health care providers having to hire a room full of insurance experts for all the different insurance forms, there is only one single contact they have to deal with.

We do NOT want to go back to the old system of medical underwriting because that still leaves everyone being forced to prepay over 10 times what they actually get in medical services.
We need to slice out all that unproductive waste all the unproductive insurance companies add, and to stop making people prepay anything.

 

[Rigby5]

Big government is inefficient by nature. Trying to apply a one size fits all healthcare system to over 300 million people spread across nearly 4 million square miles, with diverse lifestyles, cultures, and demographics will always be inefficient.

Ideally healthcare systems would be managed at state or local levels similar to public utilities. Something small and nimble enough to be managed and customized for the needs of the community it serves.

And you think that private profit motivated insurance companies are better than a public health care system?
Medicare is done by the states.
The federal government just provides funding, since federal income tax is the easiest way to do that.
The advantage of the federal Medicare for all is that poor states get subsidized by wealthy states, automatically.

 

[Rigby5]

Any sort of Federal healthcare system will be costly and hugely inefficient for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the character of politics and politicians.

Healthcare systems should be designed and administered by state, county or city governments. I would propose a system similar to power/electric supply providers; operated for small steady profits and overseen and chartered by state and local governments.

Wrong.
Medicare and VA already are federal healthcare system and they cost less than a tenth what private for-profit insurance companies force you to prepay.

 

[dblack]

My wife and I have been low wage earners most of our lives and have had many jobs with no health insurance coverage. Government handouts have helped my wife so much through the years I am all for Socialism and socialized medicine.

Free shit rules!

 

[Staidhup]

And yet Social Security, Medicare, and VA, all cost about a tenth of what similar private sector operations do.
And you can get people to listen to complaints about SS, Medicare, and VA.
Try to get anyone to listen to a complaint about an insurance company?
Never going to happen.
Once you prepay, they don't care any more.

I stopped going to the VA, I have Medicare and receive Social Security. I have supplemental health insurance plus a private plan paid for by my former employer. I complained about the VA to my state Senator, Congressman, local director…..and all they said was sorry we’re doing the best we can based on limited resources, adjust your lifestyle and live with it. Reluctantly had to use the private plan knowing full well it was going to cost me out of pocket. The private sector physician sent me to an orthopedic specialist that ended up replacing both knees and my hip. Yes it cost me $5,000 out of pocket but I am free of pain. If one is to believe a federal run single payer system is the answer their delusional. Been there done that.

 

[Rigby5]

Free shit rules!

Medical care should be free, because there is no incentive to abuse or waste it.
Those who really need it should get it.
It should have nothing to do with how wealthy you are, like it does now.

 

[Rigby5]

I stopped going to the VA, I have Medicare and receive Social Security. I have supplemental health insurance plus a private plan paid for by my former employer. I complained about the VA to my state Senator, Congressman, local director…..and all they said was sorry we’re doing the best we can based on limited resources, adjust your lifestyle and live with it. Reluctantly had to use the private plan knowing full well it was going to cost me out of pocket. The private sector physician sent me to an orthopedic specialist that ended up replacing both knees and my hip. Yes it cost me $5,000 out of pocket but I am free of pain. If one is to believe a federal run single payer system is the answer their delusional. Been there done that.

Yes, a single payer system would have prevented your problem completely.
You had to pay, and if there were single payer through Medicare for all, you would not have.
The problem with the VA is that it is not run by the elected politicians, but by the corrupt military.
With more people using it, then there would be more political pressure.
The VA is overwhelmed because of all the wars we have been involved with recently.
The actual medical providers would not change at all with single payer.
It is just the extra layers of insurance companies and medical corporations that currently are skimming, who would go away.

 

[dblack]

Medical care should be free, because there is no incentive to abuse or waste it.
Those who really need it should get it.
It should have nothing to do with how wealthy you are, like it does now.

How much medical care should be free? Hopefully, in attempting to answer that question, you'll realize you're talking about a bottomless cup. But probably, you won't.

 

[Rigby5]

How much medical care should be free? Hopefully, in attempting to answer that question, you'll realize you're talking about a bottomless cup. But probably, you won't.

Wrong.
Almost all countries have all medical care being totally free, and it never is abused because no one deliberately breaks a leg just to get a free cast.
For example, I know a person who got a free pacemaker in France.
I do not know about cosmetic surgery, and likely it depends on the doctor's recommendation most likely?

 

[dblack]

Wrong.

So, you won't answer the question? I wonder why?

 

[Rigby5]

So, you won't answer the question? I wonder why?

The fact we have real world examples of free public health care that have not cost even half what we pay for health care, proves it does work.
Unless I misunderstand you terse post, you seem to be implying that once free, that health care costs would balloon.
But that obviously is false, not only from real world experience in the whole rest of the planet, but also from the fact that free health care means nipping problems early, because they become much more expensive and life threatening.

 

[Staidhup]

Yes, a single payer system would have prevented your problem completely.
You had to pay, and if there were single payer through Medicare for all, you would not have.
The problem with the VA is that it is not run by the elected politicians, but by the corrupt military.
With more people using it, then there would be more political pressure.
The VA is overwhelmed because of all the wars we have been involved with recently.
The actual medical providers would not change at all with single payer.
It is just the extra layers of insurance companies and medical corporations that currently are skimming, who would go away.

That is pure bull shit. Now if you think for
one moment that you would have cell phones, technology at your disposal, taken for granted, at somewhat affordable rates, without a competitive market your dreaming. Remove federal and state obstacles, barriers, limit predatory parasites from the equation (ambulance chasers) and the private sector will crawl over themselves to provide an equitable and competitive market place dispelling what you propose. How many examples do you need? Every technological and medical advancement made originated within the private sector without the help or oversight of government. Your fear is the freedom to choose, lack of faith in a competitive market place. Good
Luck with that!

 

[Rigby5]

That is pure bull shit. Now if you think for
one moment that you would have cell phones, technology at your disposal, taken for granted, at somewhat affordable rates, without a competitive market your dreaming. Remove federal and state obstacles, barriers, limit predatory parasites from the equation (ambulance chasers) and the private sector will crawl over themselves to provide an equitable and competitive market place dispelling what you propose. How many examples do you need? Every technological and medical advancement made originated within the private sector without the help or oversight of government. Your fear is the freedom to choose, lack of faith in a competitive market place. Good
Luck with that!

Not true. The private sector never wastes money by developing anything. Cellphones, the Internet, pacemakers, heart transplants, etc., are all done by the public sector. There is no way the private sector could even begin to allocate the frequency bands, get permission for experiments, etc.

 

[Orangecat]

When they get control of the educational systems they spread the stupid of socialism like its new idea because as educators they are paid by socialist policies.