Medicare - a Cynic's View

[DGS49]

Imagine, if you will, a decree goes out that UNLIMITED government money will be available to treat the medical needs of everyone over 65 years old.

Over the following years, the Medical Community undertakes a major initiative to do whatever is possible to exploit this folly. Geriatric science comes to the forefront. The pharmaceutical companies rush to develop drugs that will keep old people alive forever, while being required to take their pills every single day. Logic goes out the window when it comes to expensive, life-saving surgeries, and people in their 70's and even 80's are subjected to tortuous major surgeries that will prolong their lives for a short time, regardless of the quality or economic value of same. "Rehab" facilities flourish, as these oldsters require weeks or even months of assistance to recover from invasive and destructive major surgeries to relieve pain and enhance mobility.

As Congress gradually becomes aware of the horrific costs of this stupid initiative (Medicare), they implement impotent measures to try to control costs and abuses, but once the dike was blown up by the initial decision, it is hear hopeless.

We now spend as much on Medicare alone as we do for national defense. Think about that: spending on healthcare for people over 65 years old will shortly be MORE than we spend on all national defense. And that's only GOVERNMENT spending; it doesn't count the money laid out by insurance companies and the people & families' out-of-pocket spending. All told, we probably spend twice as much on elderly health care as we do on national defense.

The total spent on all k-12 public education was about $635 billion. Medicare, just under $600 billion.

When HillaryCare was being discussed in the early 90's, America was "horrified" at the prospect of spending limits on medical care, and the prospect of actually looking at whether it makes sense to question doing an expensive and debilitating medical procedure on someone who is near the end of their natural life.

But it is time to start doing that now.

I recently visited an 88 year old uncle in a "rehab" facility. He was barely able to get around 6 weeks ago, and now, after two open-heart surgeries and needing liver surgery, he is barely able to breathe. But at no time did any of his doctors ask, "Does it make any sense to do this?" He is not afraid to die, but hates what he is going through.

If Medicare and his supplements were not paying essentially all the bills, would his family consent to pay for this expensive nonsense? No copulating way.

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

 

[dblack]

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

Are you kidding? They didn't even have the courage to repeal ACA, and that is far less popular then Medicare. Nope, we're going down, bread and circuses all the way.

 

[Scorpion]

People do not consider quality of life over longevity anymore.
It’s up to each individual to say enough is enough and communicate that to their family before a debilitating illness happens.
No doctor should be performing multiple open heart surgeries on someone in their ‘80’s unless they have the physical fitness level of someone in their ‘50’s or ‘60’s.

 

[dblack]

People do not consider quality of life over longevity anymore.
It’s up to each individual to say enough is enough and communicate that to their family before a debilitating illness happens.
No doctor should be performing multiple open heart surgeries on someone in their ‘80’s unless they have the physical fitness level of someone in their ‘50’s or ‘60’s.

And all this would happen if families were spending their own money.

 

[Penelope]

Imagine, if you will, a decree goes out that UNLIMITED government money will be available to treat the medical needs of everyone over 65 years old.

Over the following years, the Medical Community undertakes a major initiative to do whatever is possible to exploit this folly. Geriatric science comes to the forefront. The pharmaceutical companies rush to develop drugs that will keep old people alive forever, while being required to take their pills every single day. Logic goes out the window when it comes to expensive, life-saving surgeries, and people in their 70's and even 80's are subjected to tortuous major surgeries that will prolong their lives for a short time, regardless of the quality or economic value of same. "Rehab" facilities flourish, as these oldsters require weeks or even months of assistance to recover from invasive and destructive major surgeries to relieve pain and enhance mobility.

As Congress gradually becomes aware of the horrific costs of this stupid initiative (Medicare), they implement impotent measures to try to control costs and abuses, but once the dike was blown up by the initial decision, it is hear hopeless.

We now spend as much on Medicare alone as we do for national defense. Think about that: spending on healthcare for people over 65 years old will shortly be MORE than we spend on all national defense. And that's only GOVERNMENT spending; it doesn't count the money laid out by insurance companies and the people & families' out-of-pocket spending. All told, we probably spend twice as much on elderly health care as we do on national defense.

The total spent on all k-12 public education was about $635 billion. Medicare, just under $600 billion.

When HillaryCare was being discussed in the early 90's, America was "horrified" at the prospect of spending limits on medical care, and the prospect of actually looking at whether it makes sense to question doing an expensive and debilitating medical procedure on someone who is near the end of their natural life.

But it is time to start doing that now.

I recently visited an 88 year old uncle in a "rehab" facility. He was barely able to get around 6 weeks ago, and now, after two open-heart surgeries and needing liver surgery, he is barely able to breathe. But at no time did any of his doctors ask, "Does it make any sense to do this?" He is not afraid to die, but hates what he is going through.

If Medicare and his supplements were not paying essentially all the bills, would his family consent to pay for this expensive nonsense? No copulating way.

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

I guess you do not know the first thing about Medicare.

 

[Penelope]

People do not consider quality of life over longevity anymore.
It’s up to each individual to say enough is enough and communicate that to their family before a debilitating illness happens.
No doctor should be performing multiple open heart surgeries on someone in their ‘80’s unless they have the physical fitness level of someone in their ‘50’s or ‘60’s.

And all this would happen if families were spending their own money.

They are.

 

[Penelope]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

when it comes to people , no.

 

[dblack]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

That's not true at all. Do you have an argument supporting the abuse of Medicare highlighted in the OP - or are just here to make irrelevant accusations??

 

[Penelope]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

That's not true at all. Do you have an argument supporting the abuse of Medicare highlighted in the OP - or are just here to make irrelevant accusations??

The OP thinks Medicare is free and welfare, its not, but what I mentioned is funded by taxpayers.

 

[BULLDOG]

Imagine, if you will, a decree goes out that UNLIMITED government money will be available to treat the medical needs of everyone over 65 years old.

Over the following years, the Medical Community undertakes a major initiative to do whatever is possible to exploit this folly. Geriatric science comes to the forefront. The pharmaceutical companies rush to develop drugs that will keep old people alive forever, while being required to take their pills every single day. Logic goes out the window when it comes to expensive, life-saving surgeries, and people in their 70's and even 80's are subjected to tortuous major surgeries that will prolong their lives for a short time, regardless of the quality or economic value of same. "Rehab" facilities flourish, as these oldsters require weeks or even months of assistance to recover from invasive and destructive major surgeries to relieve pain and enhance mobility.

As Congress gradually becomes aware of the horrific costs of this stupid initiative (Medicare), they implement impotent measures to try to control costs and abuses, but once the dike was blown up by the initial decision, it is hear hopeless.

We now spend as much on Medicare alone as we do for national defense. Think about that: spending on healthcare for people over 65 years old will shortly be MORE than we spend on all national defense. And that's only GOVERNMENT spending; it doesn't count the money laid out by insurance companies and the people & families' out-of-pocket spending. All told, we probably spend twice as much on elderly health care as we do on national defense.

The total spent on all k-12 public education was about $635 billion. Medicare, just under $600 billion.

When HillaryCare was being discussed in the early 90's, America was "horrified" at the prospect of spending limits on medical care, and the prospect of actually looking at whether it makes sense to question doing an expensive and debilitating medical procedure on someone who is near the end of their natural life.

But it is time to start doing that now.

I recently visited an 88 year old uncle in a "rehab" facility. He was barely able to get around 6 weeks ago, and now, after two open-heart surgeries and needing liver surgery, he is barely able to breathe. But at no time did any of his doctors ask, "Does it make any sense to do this?" He is not afraid to die, but hates what he is going through.

If Medicare and his supplements were not paying essentially all the bills, would his family consent to pay for this expensive nonsense? No copulating way.

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

You're advocating death panels.

 

[dblack]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

That's not true at all. Do you have an argument supporting the abuse of Medicare highlighted in the OP - or are just here to make irrelevant accusations??

The OP thinks Medicare is free and welfare, its not.

The OP correctly identifies government medical subsidies as a corporate feeding trough. Half these people would decline the excessive end-of-life services if the doctors and hospitals weren't so eager to cash in on their demise.

 

[Penelope]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

That's not true at all. Do you have an argument supporting the abuse of Medicare highlighted in the OP - or are just here to make irrelevant accusations??

The OP thinks Medicare is free and welfare, its not.

The OP correctly identifies government medical subsidies as a corporate feeding trough. Half these people would decline the excessive end-of-life services if the doctors and hospitals weren't so eager to cash in on their demise.

I guess you are for death panels as well.

 

[Penelope]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

That's not true at all. Do you have an argument supporting the abuse of Medicare highlighted in the OP - or are just here to make irrelevant accusations??

The OP thinks Medicare is free and welfare, its not.

The OP correctly identifies government medical subsidies as a corporate feeding trough. Half these people would decline the excessive end-of-life services if the doctors and hospitals weren't so eager to cash in on their demise.

There is never a shortage of people to treat, actually there are a shortage of doctors.

 

[dblack]

You guys would rather fund war, maimed vets, business that make big bucks,

That's not true at all. Do you have an argument supporting the abuse of Medicare highlighted in the OP - or are just here to make irrelevant accusations??

The OP thinks Medicare is free and welfare, its not.

The OP correctly identifies government medical subsidies as a corporate feeding trough. Half these people would decline the excessive end-of-life services if the doctors and hospitals weren't so eager to cash in on their demise.

I guess you are for death panels as well.

Always have been. The issue is, who is on the 'death panel'? The answer is, will always be, whoever is paying the bills. So, if your family is paying for your end-of-life treatment, they will be your death panel. If government is, the Donald will be making the call. What's your preference?

 

[Scorpion]

Imagine, if you will, a decree goes out that UNLIMITED government money will be available to treat the medical needs of everyone over 65 years old.

Over the following years, the Medical Community undertakes a major initiative to do whatever is possible to exploit this folly. Geriatric science comes to the forefront. The pharmaceutical companies rush to develop drugs that will keep old people alive forever, while being required to take their pills every single day. Logic goes out the window when it comes to expensive, life-saving surgeries, and people in their 70's and even 80's are subjected to tortuous major surgeries that will prolong their lives for a short time, regardless of the quality or economic value of same. "Rehab" facilities flourish, as these oldsters require weeks or even months of assistance to recover from invasive and destructive major surgeries to relieve pain and enhance mobility.

As Congress gradually becomes aware of the horrific costs of this stupid initiative (Medicare), they implement impotent measures to try to control costs and abuses, but once the dike was blown up by the initial decision, it is hear hopeless.

We now spend as much on Medicare alone as we do for national defense. Think about that: spending on healthcare for people over 65 years old will shortly be MORE than we spend on all national defense. And that's only GOVERNMENT spending; it doesn't count the money laid out by insurance companies and the people & families' out-of-pocket spending. All told, we probably spend twice as much on elderly health care as we do on national defense.

The total spent on all k-12 public education was about $635 billion. Medicare, just under $600 billion.

When HillaryCare was being discussed in the early 90's, America was "horrified" at the prospect of spending limits on medical care, and the prospect of actually looking at whether it makes sense to question doing an expensive and debilitating medical procedure on someone who is near the end of their natural life.

But it is time to start doing that now.

I recently visited an 88 year old uncle in a "rehab" facility. He was barely able to get around 6 weeks ago, and now, after two open-heart surgeries and needing liver surgery, he is barely able to breathe. But at no time did any of his doctors ask, "Does it make any sense to do this?" He is not afraid to die, but hates what he is going through.

If Medicare and his supplements were not paying essentially all the bills, would his family consent to pay for this expensive nonsense? No copulating way.

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

You're advocating death panels.

No, practicality.
My dad was in assisted living and eventually needed nursing care in the facility due to age and Alzheimer’s.
There came a point my older sibs and I had to choose his ending quality of life.
He was evaluated and hospice came in.
We were told a few weeks at most.
He slogged on for a year, but he was kept comfortable while having occasional moments of recognition.
He passed at 88 three years ago.
We have no regrets about intervention at any cost.

And, even more relevant, in the winter of 2010 my mother had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, just 6 months after my dad. In January 2011 my mother had been diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer at age 76.
Two weeks of doctor appts and it was recommended she have radiation cover 2 weeks for brain mets because she MAY experience seizures.
That would have been torture getting her to and from the Cleveland Clinic for a procedure that MAY help but would only add potential months to her terminal diagnosis.
My mother was confused about her condition but knew she was very sick.
At that moment, my sister and I decided no radiation.
Took her home, called hospice and she was kept as comfortable as possible.
She died 4 days after the oncologist reccomended radiation.
I’m sure, because she had to.

The point is to weigh the pros and cons and have the common sense to cease intervention when the quality of end of life is not considered because WE MUST DO SOMETHING.

If you really love someone, you will have the grace to LET THEM GO.

 

[BULLDOG]

Imagine, if you will, a decree goes out that UNLIMITED government money will be available to treat the medical needs of everyone over 65 years old.

Over the following years, the Medical Community undertakes a major initiative to do whatever is possible to exploit this folly. Geriatric science comes to the forefront. The pharmaceutical companies rush to develop drugs that will keep old people alive forever, while being required to take their pills every single day. Logic goes out the window when it comes to expensive, life-saving surgeries, and people in their 70's and even 80's are subjected to tortuous major surgeries that will prolong their lives for a short time, regardless of the quality or economic value of same. "Rehab" facilities flourish, as these oldsters require weeks or even months of assistance to recover from invasive and destructive major surgeries to relieve pain and enhance mobility.

As Congress gradually becomes aware of the horrific costs of this stupid initiative (Medicare), they implement impotent measures to try to control costs and abuses, but once the dike was blown up by the initial decision, it is hear hopeless.

We now spend as much on Medicare alone as we do for national defense. Think about that: spending on healthcare for people over 65 years old will shortly be MORE than we spend on all national defense. And that's only GOVERNMENT spending; it doesn't count the money laid out by insurance companies and the people & families' out-of-pocket spending. All told, we probably spend twice as much on elderly health care as we do on national defense.

The total spent on all k-12 public education was about $635 billion. Medicare, just under $600 billion.

When HillaryCare was being discussed in the early 90's, America was "horrified" at the prospect of spending limits on medical care, and the prospect of actually looking at whether it makes sense to question doing an expensive and debilitating medical procedure on someone who is near the end of their natural life.

But it is time to start doing that now.

I recently visited an 88 year old uncle in a "rehab" facility. He was barely able to get around 6 weeks ago, and now, after two open-heart surgeries and needing liver surgery, he is barely able to breathe. But at no time did any of his doctors ask, "Does it make any sense to do this?" He is not afraid to die, but hates what he is going through.

If Medicare and his supplements were not paying essentially all the bills, would his family consent to pay for this expensive nonsense? No copulating way.

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

You're advocating death panels.

No, practicality.
My dad was in assisted living and eventually needed nursing care in the facility due to age and Alzheimer’s.
There came a point my older sibs and I had to choose his ending quality of life.
He was evaluated and hospice came in.
We were told a few weeks at most.
He slogged on for a year, but he was kept comfortable while having occasional moments of recognition.
He passed at 88 three years ago.
We have no regrets about intervention at any cost.

And, even more relevant, in the winter of 2010 my mother had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, just 6 months after my dad. In January 2011 my mother had been diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer at age 76.
Two weeks of doctor appts and it was recommended she have radiation cover 2 weeks for brain mets because she MAY experience seizures.
That would have been torture getting her to and from the Cleveland Clinic for a procedure that MAY help but would only add potential months to her terminal diagnosis.
My mother was confused about her condition but knew she was very sick.
At that moment, my sister and I decided no radiation.
Took her home, called hospice and she was kept as comfortable as possible.
She died 4 days after the oncologist reccomended radiation.
I’m sure, because she had to.

The point is to weigh the pros and cons and have the common sense to cease intervention when the quality of end of life is not considered because WE MUST DO SOMETHING.

If you really love someone, you will have the grace to LET THEM GO.

Yes,a compassionate family sometimes needs to make that tragic decision for their loved one who can no longer make it. I've had to help make it for my grandmother. That is not the same as the government saying "you cost too much. no more life for you"

 

[Leo123]

Be careful what you teach your children, they will learn what to do with you when your time comes by watching what you do with your parents.

 

[Greenbeard]

I recently visited an 88 year old uncle in a "rehab" facility. He was barely able to get around 6 weeks ago, and now, after two open-heart surgeries and needing liver surgery, he is barely able to breathe. But at no time did any of his doctors ask, "Does it make any sense to do this?" He is not afraid to die, but hates what he is going through.

If Medicare and his supplements were not paying essentially all the bills, would his family consent to pay for this expensive nonsense? No copulating way.

It's time. Will any politician have the balls to bring it up?

Zeke Emanuel has been savaged by the right for years for the common sense observation that in many cases it makes more sense to spend health resources on the young than the hold, not to mention his personal (not policy) view that if you need medical intervention to stay alive past the age of 75 then life probably isn't worth living at that point.

But really what you're hitting on is 1) an unfortunate philosophical idealization of immortality, and 2) the complete lack of agency people tend to experience when they encounter the health system. In your uncle's case, why is the decision on whether he's ready to die either a clinical decision by some physician or a financial decision by some family member? Where is he in this?

It's not realistic to assume that in general death is going to be allowed to be imposed involuntarily by a medical professional's decision or some bean-counter (familial or otherwise). As long as people refuse to accept that their life is over and prepare accordingly, we're going to have this problem. This is a philosophical and spiritual problem.

 

[HenryBHough]

Friend has terminal cancer.

His family is keeping him doped up to prolong his life.

He doesn't like it.

Periodically he escapes and, earlier this week, got out into sub-zero temperatures in an effort to free himself permanently.

The family caught him and how he's strapped to a bed to die "in peace"....albeit so pissed off he won't talk with any of them.

One family member doesn't like that so others are trying to have that person ruled insane and take control of that person's assets. Not content with keeping one person alive unwillingly they want to ruin the life of another.

Fuck That Shit!