leaving obamacare?

[Arianrhod]

I was thinking of actual, historical snake-oil and other fraudulent and often dangerous products sold in the 19th century in that magical time when four-year-olds worked in coal mines and manufacturers filled their sausages with sawdust.

It's a shame so few Americans know history anymore.

As for ethanol, just if you so much as whisper "end farm subsidies," you'd better learn to run fast.

Well the sausage with sawdust is a myth.

Prove it.

Then you can address the rest of my post.

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

 

[Andylusion]

Well the sausage with sawdust is a myth.

Prove it.

Then you can address the rest of my post.

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

 

[Dovahkiin]

Prove it.

Then you can address the rest of my post.

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, your post blew up his post......wait.

 

[Andylusion]

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

 

[Arianrhod]

Prove it.

Then you can address the rest of my post.

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar.

Evidence?

 

[Andylusion]

it's impossible to prove a negative.

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar.

Evidence?

I posted it.

 

[Arianrhod]

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar.

Evidence?

I posted it.

You posted an op-ed written a century after Sinclair's first-hand observations.

 

[Dovahkiin]

You said it was a myth, and you said it with conviction - as if something you'd read had convinced you. If that's not the case, never mind, then.

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah...... When you read that there was never any evidence supporting the allegation.... that's proof it was a myth.

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

It was only when the whole ham was spoiled that it came into the department of Elzbieta. Cut up by the two-thousand-revolutions-a-minute flyers, and mixed with half a ton of other meat, no odor that ever was in a ham could make any difference. There was never the least attention paid to what was cut up for sausage; there would come all the way back from Europe old sausage that had been rejected, and that was mouldy and white—it would be dosed with borax and glycerine, and dumped into the hoppers, and made over again for home consumption. There would be meat that had tumbled out on the floor, in the dirt and sawdust, where the workers had tramped and spit uncounted billions of consumption germs. There would be meat stored in great piles in rooms; and the water from leaky roofs would drip over it, and thousands of rats would race about on it. It was too dark in these storage places to see well, but a man could run his hand over these piles of meat and sweep off handfuls of the dried dung of rats. These rats were nuisances, and the packers would put poisoned bread out for them; they would die, and then rats, bread, and meat would go into the hoppers together. This is no fairy story and no joke; the meat would be shovelled into carts, and the man who did the shovelling would not trouble to lift out a rat even when he saw one—there were things that went into the sausage in comparison with which a poisoned rat was a tidbit. There was no place for the men to wash their hands before they ate their dinner, and so they made a practice of washing them in the water that was to be ladled into the sausage. There were the butt-ends of smoked meat, and the scraps of corned beef, and all the odds and ends of the waste of the plants, that would be dumped into old barrels in the cellar and left there. Under the system of rigid economy which the packers enforced, there were some jobs that it only paid to do once in a long time, and among these was the cleaning out of the waste-barrels. Every spring they did it; and in the barrels would be dirt and rust and old nails and stale water—and cart load after cart load of it would be taken up and dumped into the hoppers with fresh meat, and sent out to the public's breakfast. Some of it they would make into "smoked" sausage—but as the smoking took time, and was therefore expensive, they would call upon their chemistry department, and preserve it with borax and color it with gelatine to make it brown. All of their sausage came out of the same bowl, but when they came to wrap it they would stamp some of it "special," and for this they would charge two cents more a pound.

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar.

Evidence?

I posted it.

You posted an op-ed written a century after Sinclair's first-hand observations.

The citation.... was of letters written by the president of the united states, when Sinclare released his book, and from congressional testimony in hearing on the claims made in the book.

So in other words, you are too incompetent to read the citation correctly. You are a public school kid, yes?

 

[Dovahkiin]

So let's see it.

Meanwhile, here's a little something to contemplate about the wonderful era when those benevolent manufacturers were able to bring their quality products to market before the Mean Ol' Government made them stop sickening people:

Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) – Dictionary definition of Conditions in Meatpacking Plants (1906, by Upton Sinclair) | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

Then let's talk about four-year-olds working in factories and coal mines. Or perhaps you'd like to talk about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire?

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

 

[Andylusion]

Gah..... dude.... Everyone said he was a liar. The moment your source of information is a liar... you no longer have a valid source.

From your link....
"a young socialist journalist and novelist, received a $500 advance to write a novel about abuses in the meat processing industry"

Do you not understand the word NOVEL???

nov·el1
ˈnävəl/
noun
noun: novel; plural noun: novels
a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism.

He wrote a novel.... what part of FICTITIOUS, do you not understand? It's not true. It's not a documentary.

President Theodore Roosevelt said quote:

“I have an utter contempt for him. He is hysterical, unbalanced, and untruthful. Three-fourths of the things he said were absolute falsehoods. For some of the remainder there was only a basis of truth.” (Source: letter to William Allen White, July 31, 1906, from “The Letters of Theodore Roosevelt,” 8 vols, Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1951-54, vol. 5, p. 340.)

You can look it up!

The 1906 report of the Department of Agriculture’s Bureau of Animal Husbandry refuted the worst of Sinclair’s charges point-by-point. The report labeled his claims . . .

* “willful and deliberate misrepresentations of fact”
* “atrocious exaggeration”
* And “not at all characteristic (of the meat packing industry)”

Willful LIES
Atrocious exaggeration
Not at all characteristic of the meat packing industry.

What is worse is that the result was corporate welfare! And inherently it benefited the big companies!

See before, the meat packing companies paid for their own testing and regulatory oversight. With the new regulations, GOVERNMENT! Picked up the costs.

At the same time, smaller meat packing companies had a harder time meeting all the new regulations, and closed, or sold out to the larger companies.

YAY FOR CORPORATE WELFARE AND BIG BUSINESS! GOOD JOB LEFTIES! BRILLIANT!

In fact, Sinclare ended up opposing the regulations and laws, that his own book of lies caused to be created!

The Truth About “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair :: Liberty Maven

Bottom line dude.... you crap about saw dust in the sausage... all lies. Lies. Just flat out, all lies. Your entire position is based on a NOVEL.... A FICTITIOUS NOVEL.

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

View attachment 62600

It's threads like this, that explain to me why the United States will be a dictatorship that falls to 3rd world status, while idiots all around are cheering for government!

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

Do you understand the word "context"? In what 'context' did I make that opinion?

I'm looking at a post, where the writers is using as proof, a novel, which was considered full of lies when it was written. The results of that novel were to make rich people richer, by making tax payers foot the bill, for inspections that had already been going on before hand. And regulations which pushed small business out of the market, in favor of the large corporations, which again made the rich richer.

Nothing good came from this novel, which was almost entirely lies.

If people are that dumb on the left... and they gain control of this country... yes... I can see how we could end up a third world country, with super wealthy at the top, and everyone else impoverished.

Now, aside from my opinion of where left-wing incompetence leads us..... what of the facts, which I posted direct proof of, would you try and argue with?

 

[Arianrhod]

He should ignore you now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

Do you understand the word "context"? In what 'context' did I make that opinion?

I'm looking at a post, where the writers is using as proof, a novel, which was considered full of lies when it was written. The results of that novel were to make rich people richer, by making tax payers foot the bill, for inspections that had already been going on before hand. And regulations which pushed small business out of the market, in favor of the large corporations, which again made the rich richer.

Nothing good came from this novel, which was almost entirely lies.

If people are that dumb on the left... and they gain control of this country... yes... I can see how we could end up a third world country, with super wealthy at the top, and everyone else impoverished.

Now, aside from my opinion of where left-wing incompetence leads us..... what of the facts, which I posted direct proof of, would you try and argue with?

How many RWs revere novels like Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead?

 

[Andylusion]

Right.... out of all the facts in my post, you didn't address any of those, in trying to claim I didn't know what I was talking about.

But in the one statement, which is my opinion, you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.

The only thing you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, was the statement of my opinion.... Thus the essence of your claim, is that I don't really know what my opinion is? And by implication, you somehow think you know what my opinion is, more than I do....?

Do you not see how incredibly bonkers your post is?

"You don't know the truth about what your opinion is!" Ooooo.... I feel so burned now. I can almost hear Sheldon saying Bazinga from here.

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

Do you understand the word "context"? In what 'context' did I make that opinion?

I'm looking at a post, where the writers is using as proof, a novel, which was considered full of lies when it was written. The results of that novel were to make rich people richer, by making tax payers foot the bill, for inspections that had already been going on before hand. And regulations which pushed small business out of the market, in favor of the large corporations, which again made the rich richer.

Nothing good came from this novel, which was almost entirely lies.

If people are that dumb on the left... and they gain control of this country... yes... I can see how we could end up a third world country, with super wealthy at the top, and everyone else impoverished.

Now, aside from my opinion of where left-wing incompetence leads us..... what of the facts, which I posted direct proof of, would you try and argue with?

How many RWs revere novels like Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead?

Do tell dude...... Seriously... list off all the links to posts where right-wingers have complained about the "Anti-dog-eat-dog rule" which caused the railroads in Colorado to be sold off to pro-government competitors?

Or tell me how many posts cite the Steel Unification Plan, which confiscates all money from metal sold, and deals out equally to every steel company based on the number of furnaces they have?

Answer.... ZERO. Not one. You can't find a single post with Right-wingers screaming about these policies.... because unlike you, and those like you, we understand this is a "NOVEL". It's fiction. The only connection to reality, is that it explains and portrays economic principals.

But you don't see us citing this as an example of something that happened in the real world, like you have with your moronic "saw dust in the sausage" idiocy, that NEVER HAPPENED.

 

[dblack]

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

Do you understand the word "context"? In what 'context' did I make that opinion?

I'm looking at a post, where the writers is using as proof, a novel, which was considered full of lies when it was written. The results of that novel were to make rich people richer, by making tax payers foot the bill, for inspections that had already been going on before hand. And regulations which pushed small business out of the market, in favor of the large corporations, which again made the rich richer.

Nothing good came from this novel, which was almost entirely lies.

If people are that dumb on the left... and they gain control of this country... yes... I can see how we could end up a third world country, with super wealthy at the top, and everyone else impoverished.

Now, aside from my opinion of where left-wing incompetence leads us..... what of the facts, which I posted direct proof of, would you try and argue with?

How many RWs revere novels like Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead?

Do tell dude...... Seriously... list off all the links to posts where right-wingers have complained about the "Anti-dog-eat-dog rule" which caused the railroads in Colorado to be sold off to pro-government competitors?

Or tell me how many posts cite the Steel Unification Plan, which confiscates all money from metal sold, and deals out equally to every steel company based on the number of furnaces they have?

Answer.... ZERO. Not one. You can't find a single post with Right-wingers screaming about these policies.... because unlike you, and those like you, we understand this is a "NOVEL". It's fiction. The only connection to reality, is that it explains and portrays economic principals.

But you don't see us citing this as an example of something that happened in the real world, like you have with your moronic "saw dust in the sausage" idiocy, that NEVER HAPPENED.

Dude! - you're not taking A-rod seriously, are you?

 

[Arianrhod]

Your opinion perfectly demonstrates that you're a paranoid person who lives in fear.

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

Do you understand the word "context"? In what 'context' did I make that opinion?

I'm looking at a post, where the writers is using as proof, a novel, which was considered full of lies when it was written. The results of that novel were to make rich people richer, by making tax payers foot the bill, for inspections that had already been going on before hand. And regulations which pushed small business out of the market, in favor of the large corporations, which again made the rich richer.

Nothing good came from this novel, which was almost entirely lies.

If people are that dumb on the left... and they gain control of this country... yes... I can see how we could end up a third world country, with super wealthy at the top, and everyone else impoverished.

Now, aside from my opinion of where left-wing incompetence leads us..... what of the facts, which I posted direct proof of, would you try and argue with?

How many RWs revere novels like Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead?

Do tell dude...... Seriously... list off all the links to posts where right-wingers have complained about the "Anti-dog-eat-dog rule" which caused the railroads in Colorado to be sold off to pro-government competitors?

Or tell me how many posts cite the Steel Unification Plan, which confiscates all money from metal sold, and deals out equally to every steel company based on the number of furnaces they have?

Answer.... ZERO. Not one. You can't find a single post with Right-wingers screaming about these policies.... because unlike you, and those like you, we understand this is a "NOVEL". It's fiction. The only connection to reality, is that it explains and portrays economic principals.

But you don't see us citing this as an example of something that happened in the real world, like you have with your moronic "saw dust in the sausage" idiocy, that NEVER HAPPENED.

Sounds like a wonderful topic for any of several forums, but what does it have to do with the PPACA?

 

[Andylusion]

Fear? Actually the opposite is true. But that is an entirely difference discussion.

Again, you cant' argue with any of the facts I posted, and haven't even attempted to.

You claim my opinion is wrong, but you can't even argue with that.

So now all you can do is say it is your opinion that my opinion, must be wrong, and I am a "person who lives in fear" whatever that means.

Fine. You are allowed to be wrong as well.... are you not?

You believe we're going to turn into a third world country because of things every other country (virtually) already have?

Do you understand the word "context"? In what 'context' did I make that opinion?

I'm looking at a post, where the writers is using as proof, a novel, which was considered full of lies when it was written. The results of that novel were to make rich people richer, by making tax payers foot the bill, for inspections that had already been going on before hand. And regulations which pushed small business out of the market, in favor of the large corporations, which again made the rich richer.

Nothing good came from this novel, which was almost entirely lies.

If people are that dumb on the left... and they gain control of this country... yes... I can see how we could end up a third world country, with super wealthy at the top, and everyone else impoverished.

Now, aside from my opinion of where left-wing incompetence leads us..... what of the facts, which I posted direct proof of, would you try and argue with?

How many RWs revere novels like Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead?

Do tell dude...... Seriously... list off all the links to posts where right-wingers have complained about the "Anti-dog-eat-dog rule" which caused the railroads in Colorado to be sold off to pro-government competitors?

Or tell me how many posts cite the Steel Unification Plan, which confiscates all money from metal sold, and deals out equally to every steel company based on the number of furnaces they have?

Answer.... ZERO. Not one. You can't find a single post with Right-wingers screaming about these policies.... because unlike you, and those like you, we understand this is a "NOVEL". It's fiction. The only connection to reality, is that it explains and portrays economic principals.

But you don't see us citing this as an example of something that happened in the real world, like you have with your moronic "saw dust in the sausage" idiocy, that NEVER HAPPENED.

Sounds like a wonderful topic for any of several forums, but what does it have to do with the PPACA?

LOL. You are a trip!

You bring up a topic, by making an asinine claim. You defend the topic for 10 posts or whatever. When finally pinned down on your assinine claim, suddenly.... "Dur... yeah... um.. ok but... what's this got to do with the other topic?"

LOL... you are dismissed. Thanks for playing. Sorry you lost. Collect your copy of the home game on the way out.

 

[Arianrhod]

So once upon a time there was a magical America where there was no regulation, and the benevolent manufacturers produced quality goods for the free market and threw in lollipops and unicorns for free. That brilliant author Ayn Rand wrote several novels about it and the happy people who lived at the time.

Oh, wait.

 

[Andylusion]

So once upon a time there was a magical America where there was no regulation, and the benevolent manufacturers produced quality goods for the free market and threw in lollipops and unicorns for free. That brilliant author Ayn Rand wrote several novels about it and the happy people who lived at the time.

Oh, wait.

No it's ok son. The class is over. You are dismissed. You failed the test, but maybe you can take a do-over in another thread. No hard feelings. Good game.