Jesus was a commie...

[Ravi]

Because you cannot support your side of it?
Um, no.

You cannot logically get past the idea that Christian Charity requires free will, something completely absent from "charity" under socialim, thereby negating any idea that Jesus would supprt Socialism.

Goven that, there's no need for me to follow you off on some tangent.

No, I'm perfectly willing to go back to it. I'd just like you to answer the question. I thought maybe we'd have an easier time of it if we could agree on a couple of points.

 

[Ravi]

LOL! You called that one, Shogun.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, I'm perfectly willing to go back to it. I'd just like you to answer the question. I thought maybe we'd have an easier time of it if we could agree on a couple of points.

Apparrently, you didn't read where I said that there's no need for me to follow you off on some tangent.

 

[Ravi]

sigh

I give up. You haven't made your case and you aren't interested in having a discussion. I know that Jesus never said anything to make anyone think public welfare was a bad thing. I also know that it is not mandatory to pay taxes or be an American.

 

[M14 Shooter]

sigh
I give up. You haven't made your case and you aren't interested in having a discussion.

I haven't?
Explain to me exactly where and how my position is in error.

 

[Shogun]

sigh

I give up. You haven't made your case and you aren't interested in having a discussion. I know that Jesus never said anything to make anyone think public welfare was a bad thing. I also know that it is not mandatory to pay taxes or be an American.

It's standard operating procedure for m14 when he is having his ass handed to him. And you are right, there is no indication in the bible that jebus would have been against welfare for the sake of some conveluded concept of "free will". But, it's hilarious watching thumpers who would othwerwise be ready to tell you how the bible justifies removing FREE WILL otherwise according to the topics he has an opinion about.

and then we've got alliebaba jumping in like a wrestler with a folding chair. Two christians who, as a matter of fact, do more to stain their faith than they do in defending it.

 

[Shogun]

I haven't?
Explain to me exactly where and how my position is in error.

see. this is where you have to jump through HIS hoop in order to obscure the fact that HE was the one making crazy nutter claims about jebus and welfare.




rise and fall, turn the wheel
cause all life is, it's really just a circle.

 

[Ravi]

It's kind of sad that they can't back up their own claims.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's kind of sad that they can't back up their own claims.

I haven't?
Explain to me exactly where and how my position is in error.

 

[Ravi]

I haven't?
Explain to me exactly where and how my position is in error.

Your claim that Jesus was against welfare because it doesn't involve free will. He wasn't against welfare and it does involve free will.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Your claim that Jesus was against welfare because it doesn't involve free will.

I didnt say Jesus opposed socialist welfare, I said that socialist welfare wasn't the "charity" he preached.
How is that wrong?

He wasn't against welfare and it does involve free will.

He wasnt against -charity-.
Christan Charity necessitates free will.
There is no free will component to being forced to provide for others under socialism.

 

[Shogun]

 

[Ravi]

I didnt say Jesus opposed socialist welfare, I said that socialist welfare wasn't the "charity" he preached.
How is that wrong?


He wasnt against charity.
Christan Charity necessitates free will.
There is no free will component to being forced to provide for others under socialism.

God, you're funny. See the thread Manifold started about your opinion, he makes it clearer than I've been able to...as a country we use our collective free will to enact laws and collect taxes and decide how the money is spent. As an individual you are free to opt out of your citizenship and you are also free to opt out of paying taxes by not earning enough money to do so.

Where did Jesus say that socialist welfare wasn't the charity he preached?

 

[M14 Shooter]

See the thread Manifold started about your opinion, he makes it clearer than I've been able to...as a country we use our collective free will to enact laws and collect taxes and decide how the money is spent.

Yes. And this -forces- people to provide for the needy.
That's welfare, not Christian Charity.

 

[jillian]

Yes. And this -forces- people to provide for the needy.
That's welfare, not Christian Charity.

Jesus didn't say give because you want to. He said give because G-d wants you to and give because it's our OBLIGATION to. What's the difference if it's religious or governmental coercion?

 

[Ravi]

Yes. And this -forces- people to provide for the needy.
That's welfare, not Christian Charity.

No, you can still opt out.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Jesus didn't say give because you want to. He said give because G-d wants you to and give because it's our OBLIGATION to. What's the difference if it's religious or governmental coercion?

Free will. You do not have to obey God, you have to choose to obey God.

And, of course, if the welfare state is a product of Christian teachings, designed to enforce same, how does this violate the Establishment clause?

G-d?
What's the matter? To scared to type His name out?

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, you can still opt out.

You cannot opt out, under socialism.

 

[Ravi]

Jesus didn't say give because you want to. He said give because G-d wants you to and give because it's our OBLIGATION to. What's the difference if it's religious or governmental coercion?

As far as I can tell, Shooter thinks helping people is only valid if you score brownie points with God for doing it. And for some reason he thinks God is against social welfare programs that are started *gasp* voluntarily by groups of citizens that wish to help poor people.

 

[M14 Shooter]

As far as I can tell, Shooter thinks helping people is only valid if you score brownie points with God for doing it

If that's 'as near as you can tell', the problem we're having is that you suffer from an extraordiary lack of reading comprehension skills.