Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality

[rylah]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?

You are a hoot.

You ask about morality. There are three things that I look at in the Ten Commandments: Stealing, Killing, and Lying.

These are the three pillars of Israel's founding and existence.

The Palestinians have been fighting this aggression for over a hundred years. Their methods are determined by their limited resources.

As for Najd, the village predates the Ottoman empire. For how long, I don't think anybody knows. There is no record of them attacking or replacing anyone. Just some peaceful farmers trying to make a living. There is no reason to attack and expel them.

They are now refugees in Gaza shooting rockets into their home town.

But you didn't differentiate whether anyone in the coffee shop attacked the suicide bomber,
their mere presence was enough a justification for you.

So why do you treat this one differently?

As for your appeal to the 10 Commandments, the irony of which you definitely don't see,
even if we assume your accusations had any basis in reality,
then you must also know that:

- stealing from a thief (Arabs) is exempted from punishment
- one who raises to kill you (Arabs), kill him first
- lying is permissible for peace (Aharon A"H)

As for the aggression - no Israeli ever shot a bullet before the Arab pogroms.

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?
Is it less or more effective self-defense than suicide bombing?

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?

Peaceful, unarmed farmers are your enemy.

Please explain.

Let's assume they were indeed 'peaceful, unarmed farmers'.

Haven't you already justified killing them with your 'suicide-bomber' logic?

 

[rylah]

Where do you get this shit?

It was you who justified a suicide bomber blowing off non-combatants in a coffee shop,
for their mere presence in land he/she considers belonging to someone else.
Then you justified it with belonging to a group associated as aggressors.
All that fits the Arabs in Najd to the t.

More so, by following your logic,
it also justifies everything about Israel's tactics.

So why the double standard?

 

[rylah]

P F Tinmore

4 pages, and you haven't addressed the effectiveness of a single Arab tactic,
set a consistent definition, or answered my opening question.

Why can't you?

 

[RoccoR]

INITIAL QUESTION: in case there's a building with militants about whom there's information of readiness to attack your side,and before/after the attack, they put babies at the windows. Who's responsible for their death if they get killed?
SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ et al,

BLUF: At the end of the day, the objective is to "Break the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" such that they no longer want to conduct Hostile Operations as an Opposing Force (OPFOR).

(COMMENT)

✪ As a consequence of employing (100%) successful operations means "peace" becomes the "ground truth."

That is an ideal objective and outcome. In the case of the Arab - Israeli Conflict, we will not (if ever) see that outcome in my lifetime. You would have to totally eliminate the entire Arab Palestinian population. No Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) survivors, - no hostilities - peaceful outcome. (That is unrealistic!)

So, we know at the outset, 100% success is unachievable. But, "Breaking the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" is an obtainable objective. The tactics employed must:

◈ Fall within the range of being Humanitarianly acceptable. (No scorch-earth → No total elimination.)​

◈ It must be inside the limits of Customary Law.​

◈ It must be politically defendable actions.​

◈ The capitulation must be an announcement originating from the Arab Palestinians.​

​

In WWII, this was accomplished in a number of ways. Entire cities were incinerated; burnt to the ground. Damns were destroyed. The industry was ground-down to a halt. One Allied Power would bomb by day, while another Allied Power would bomb by night. It was destruction on a massive scale.

Of course, WWII Tactics cannot be employed. But the Israelis are attempting to chock-off support HoAP, through award (reinforcement for good behaviors) and punishment (loss of something important as a consequence for bad behaviors).

These questions about the destruction of home and crops, reduced water and new settlements in Area "C", are nothing more than the consequence for bad behaviors. The question is:

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the Firestorms in the Dresden Effect? ​

.......................................................→ OR → ​

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the more tempered slow choking and strangulation?​

The Arab Palestinian has spent more of an effort trying to justify their past practices of criminal behaviors, then they have trying to fix their leadership problems. Out of these hundreds of Resolutions singling out Israel for one thing or another, it is a very good thing that the Jewish People have a National Home to which they can retreat to protect themselves from the lack of justice emanating from the International Community.

Just how friendly and innocent are the HoAP:

Years: (between 2017 and 2018)
Global Terrorism Database (GTD)
SEARCH RESULTS: 97 INCIDENTS
All incidents regardless of doubt.
Country: (Israel)

​

(QUESTION)

How many attacks would your country accept before it retaliated with sufficient force to eliminate the threat and its infrastructure and support mechanism? What would that look like?


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

INITIAL QUESTION: in case there's a building with militants about whom there's information of readiness to attack your side,and before/after the attack, they put babies at the windows. Who's responsible for their death if they get killed?
SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ et al,

BLUF: At the end of the day, the objective is to "Break the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" such that they no longer want to conduct Hostile Operations as an Opposing Force (OPFOR).

(COMMENT)

✪ As a consequence of employing (100%) successful operations means "peace" becomes the "ground truth."

That is an ideal objective and outcome. In the case of the Arab - Israeli Conflict, we will not (if ever) see that outcome in my lifetime. You would have to totally eliminate the entire Arab Palestinian population. No Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) survivors, - no hostilities - peaceful outcome. (That is unrealistic!)

So, we know at the outset, 100% success is unachievable. But, "Breaking the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" is an obtainable objective. The tactics employed must:

◈ Fall within the range of being Humanitarianly acceptable. (No scorch-earth → No total elimination.)​

◈ It must be inside the limits of Customary Law.​

◈ It must be politically defendable actions.​

◈ The capitulation must be an announcement originating from the Arab Palestinians.​

​

In WWII, this was accomplished in a number of ways. Entire cities were incinerated; burnt to the ground. Damns were destroyed. The industry was ground-down to a halt. One Allied Power would bomb by day, while another Allied Power would bomb by night. It was destruction on a massive scale.

Of course, WWII Tactics cannot be employed. But the Israelis are attempting to chock-off support HoAP, through award (reinforcement for good behaviors) and punishment (loss of something important as a consequence for bad behaviors).

These questions about the destruction of home and crops, reduced water and new settlements in Area "C", are nothing more than the consequence for bad behaviors. The question is:

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the Firestorms in the Dresden Effect? ​

.......................................................→ OR → ​

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the more tempered slow choking and strangulation?​

The Arab Palestinian has spent more of an effort trying to justify their past practices of criminal behaviors, then they have trying to fix their leadership problems. Out of these hundreds of Resolutions singling out Israel for one thing or another, it is a very good thing that the Jewish People have a National Home to which they can retreat to protect themselves from the lack of justice emanating from the International Community.

Just how friendly and innocent are the HoAP:

Years: (between 2017 and 2018)
Global Terrorism Database (GTD)
SEARCH RESULTS: 97 INCIDENTS
All incidents regardless of doubt.
Country: (Israel)

View attachment 382317
​

(QUESTION)

How many attacks would your country accept before it retaliated with sufficient force to eliminate the threat and its infrastructure and support mechanism? What would that look like?


Most Respectfully,
R

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

 

[Hollie]

INITIAL QUESTION: in case there's a building with militants about whom there's information of readiness to attack your side,and before/after the attack, they put babies at the windows. Who's responsible for their death if they get killed?
SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ et al,

BLUF: At the end of the day, the objective is to "Break the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" such that they no longer want to conduct Hostile Operations as an Opposing Force (OPFOR).

(COMMENT)

✪ As a consequence of employing (100%) successful operations means "peace" becomes the "ground truth."

That is an ideal objective and outcome. In the case of the Arab - Israeli Conflict, we will not (if ever) see that outcome in my lifetime. You would have to totally eliminate the entire Arab Palestinian population. No Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) survivors, - no hostilities - peaceful outcome. (That is unrealistic!)

So, we know at the outset, 100% success is unachievable. But, "Breaking the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" is an obtainable objective. The tactics employed must:

◈ Fall within the range of being Humanitarianly acceptable. (No scorch-earth → No total elimination.)​

◈ It must be inside the limits of Customary Law.​

◈ It must be politically defendable actions.​

◈ The capitulation must be an announcement originating from the Arab Palestinians.​

​

In WWII, this was accomplished in a number of ways. Entire cities were incinerated; burnt to the ground. Damns were destroyed. The industry was ground-down to a halt. One Allied Power would bomb by day, while another Allied Power would bomb by night. It was destruction on a massive scale.

Of course, WWII Tactics cannot be employed. But the Israelis are attempting to chock-off support HoAP, through award (reinforcement for good behaviors) and punishment (loss of something important as a consequence for bad behaviors).

These questions about the destruction of home and crops, reduced water and new settlements in Area "C", are nothing more than the consequence for bad behaviors. The question is:

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the Firestorms in the Dresden Effect? ​

.......................................................→ OR → ​

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the more tempered slow choking and strangulation?​

The Arab Palestinian has spent more of an effort trying to justify their past practices of criminal behaviors, then they have trying to fix their leadership problems. Out of these hundreds of Resolutions singling out Israel for one thing or another, it is a very good thing that the Jewish People have a National Home to which they can retreat to protect themselves from the lack of justice emanating from the International Community.

Just how friendly and innocent are the HoAP:

Years: (between 2017 and 2018)
Global Terrorism Database (GTD)
SEARCH RESULTS: 97 INCIDENTS
All incidents regardless of doubt.
Country: (Israel)

View attachment 382317
​

(QUESTION)

How many attacks would your country accept before it retaliated with sufficient force to eliminate the threat and its infrastructure and support mechanism? What would that look like?


Most Respectfully,
R

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

What country?

 

[RoccoR]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: This is another one of your tactics to intentionally mislead the reader.

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

(ANSWER)

I did not come anywhere close to saying that. Not at all.

First, it is not their country. With the exception of the Gaza Strip and the Designated Area "A" land, there is NO political subdivision under which the Arab Palestinians have established self-governing institutions → absent control or oversight by an external power.

◈ On the occasion of the Internationally Witnessed Agreement between the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)[Oslo I (1993); Oslo II (1995)] and the designation of Area "A" (See Map below) [≈18% (407.34 sq mi) of the West Bank], the PLO assumed full civil and security control. (ICC-01/18-135 05-06-2020 2/13 NM PT The State of Palestine’s response to the Pre-Trial Chamber’s Order requesting additional information.)​

​

◈ On the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), a faction of the Arab Palestinians assumed control.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

There is no special universally accepted international legal or political meaning to the word "country." The word "nation" has a specific Diplomatic meaning, but no universally accepted international legal meaning.

nation. (1) An aggregation of people who, as the result of having certain important phenomena in common – such
as descent, language, history, culture, or simply feeling – assert that collectively they constitute a national unit. See
also self-determination. (2) A popular synonym for *sovereign state (sometimes extended to ‘nation state’).

SOURCE: Palgrave MacMillan Dictionary of Diplomacy, 3d Ed. Page 255,
© G. R. Berridge, Lorna Lloyd, and Alan James, 2012
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: This is another one of your tactics to intentionally mislead the reader.

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

(ANSWER)

I did not come anywhere close to saying that. Not at all.

First, it is not their country. With the exception of the Gaza Strip and the Designated Area "A" land, there is NO political subdivision under which the Arab Palestinians have established self-governing institutions → absent control or oversight by an external power.

◈ On the occasion of the Internationally Witnessed Agreement between the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)[Oslo I (1993); Oslo II (1995)] and the designation of Area "A" (See Map below) [≈18% (407.34 sq mi) of the West Bank], the PLO assumed full civil and security control. (ICC-01/18-135 05-06-2020 2/13 NM PT The State of Palestine’s response to the Pre-Trial Chamber’s Order requesting additional information.)​

​

◈ On the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), a faction of the Arab Palestinians assumed control.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

There is no special universally accepted international legal or political meaning to the word "country." The word "nation" has a specific Diplomatic meaning, but no universally accepted international legal meaning.

​

nation. (1) An aggregation of people who, as the result of having certain important phenomena in common – such​

as descent, language, history, culture, or simply feeling – assert that collectively they constitute a national unit. See​

also self-determination. (2) A popular synonym for *sovereign state (sometimes extended to ‘nation state’).​

​

​

SOURCE: Palgrave MacMillan Dictionary of Diplomacy, 3d Ed. Page 255,​

© G. R. Berridge, Lorna Lloyd, and Alan James, 2012​

​

Most Respectfully,
R
View attachment 382522

Thanks for the map of the South African style Bantustans.

 

[Hollie]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: This is another one of your tactics to intentionally mislead the reader.

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

(ANSWER)

I did not come anywhere close to saying that. Not at all.

First, it is not their country. With the exception of the Gaza Strip and the Designated Area "A" land, there is NO political subdivision under which the Arab Palestinians have established self-governing institutions → absent control or oversight by an external power.

◈ On the occasion of the Internationally Witnessed Agreement between the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)[Oslo I (1993); Oslo II (1995)] and the designation of Area "A" (See Map below) [≈18% (407.34 sq mi) of the West Bank], the PLO assumed full civil and security control. (ICC-01/18-135 05-06-2020 2/13 NM PT The State of Palestine’s response to the Pre-Trial Chamber’s Order requesting additional information.)​

​

◈ On the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), a faction of the Arab Palestinians assumed control.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

There is no special universally accepted international legal or political meaning to the word "country." The word "nation" has a specific Diplomatic meaning, but no universally accepted international legal meaning.

​

nation. (1) An aggregation of people who, as the result of having certain important phenomena in common – such​

as descent, language, history, culture, or simply feeling – assert that collectively they constitute a national unit. See​

also self-determination. (2) A popular synonym for *sovereign state (sometimes extended to ‘nation state’).​

​

​

SOURCE: Palgrave MacMillan Dictionary of Diplomacy, 3d Ed. Page 255,​

© G. R. Berridge, Lorna Lloyd, and Alan James, 2012​

​

Most Respectfully,
R
View attachment 382522

Thanks for the map of the South African style Bantustans.

No, indeed.

Indeed, more like Arab-Islamic tribal units.

 

[P F Tinmore]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: This is another one of your tactics to intentionally mislead the reader.

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

(ANSWER)

I did not come anywhere close to saying that. Not at all.

First, it is not their country. With the exception of the Gaza Strip and the Designated Area "A" land, there is NO political subdivision under which the Arab Palestinians have established self-governing institutions → absent control or oversight by an external power.

◈ On the occasion of the Internationally Witnessed Agreement between the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)[Oslo I (1993); Oslo II (1995)] and the designation of Area "A" (See Map below) [≈18% (407.34 sq mi) of the West Bank], the PLO assumed full civil and security control. (ICC-01/18-135 05-06-2020 2/13 NM PT The State of Palestine’s response to the Pre-Trial Chamber’s Order requesting additional information.)​

​

◈ On the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), a faction of the Arab Palestinians assumed control.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

There is no special universally accepted international legal or political meaning to the word "country." The word "nation" has a specific Diplomatic meaning, but no universally accepted international legal meaning.

​

nation. (1) An aggregation of people who, as the result of having certain important phenomena in common – such​

as descent, language, history, culture, or simply feeling – assert that collectively they constitute a national unit. See​

also self-determination. (2) A popular synonym for *sovereign state (sometimes extended to ‘nation state’).​

​

​

SOURCE: Palgrave MacMillan Dictionary of Diplomacy, 3d Ed. Page 255,​

© G. R. Berridge, Lorna Lloyd, and Alan James, 2012​

​

Most Respectfully,
R
View attachment 382522

It could be that I live in a place where 50 "states" make up a larger "country."

Palestine is a territory with international borders and a centuries old permanent population. I call that a country. That it has been under the boot of world powers its entire life does not change that. No foreign power has the authority to change that.

 

[RoccoR]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: One of the tactical objectives is to get the greater population of Arab Palestinians to displace the current leadership and replaces it → so that a "nation" can be built.

It could be that I live in a place where 50 "states" make up a larger "country."

Palestine is a territory with international borders and a centuries old permanent population. I call that a country. That it has been under the boot of world powers its entire life does not change that. No foreign power has the authority to change that.

(COMMENT)

Again, the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine no longer exists as a single "Entity." The "entity" has a single and continuous boundary known as "Palestine." That title identified the Government of Palestine under British Administration. It was not under the control or sovereign to the Arab Palestinians at any time in the last Millenium; except as (a possibility only) explained in Posting #67, supra.

What are you using as a valid criterion or definition of a "Country?"
The West Bank Population of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was, during the period 1950 to 1988, citizens of The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. You cannot claim your deductive argument sound since the premise is → in part untrue.

(REQUIRES CLARIFICATION)

I am unsure as to what you claim that a Foreign Power cannot change. What criteria are you talking about?

◈ For example, are you talking about the Crimea and the change made in the boundary of Ukraine is physically unchanged?​

◈ For example, are you talking about Tibet, an Autonomous Region of China, once independent and sovereign?​

​

And what about the issue of "The People's Republic of China (PRC) sovereignty claims to the South China Sea, the building of artificial islands to extend it territorial presence (by means other than military aggression)?

​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: This is another one of your tactics to intentionally mislead the reader.

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

(ANSWER)

I did not come anywhere close to saying that. Not at all.

First, it is not their country. With the exception of the Gaza Strip and the Designated Area "A" land, there is NO political subdivision under which the Arab Palestinians have established self-governing institutions → absent control or oversight by an external power.

◈ On the occasion of the Internationally Witnessed Agreement between the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)[Oslo I (1993); Oslo II (1995)] and the designation of Area "A" (See Map below) [≈18% (407.34 sq mi) of the West Bank], the PLO assumed full civil and security control. (ICC-01/18-135 05-06-2020 2/13 NM PT The State of Palestine’s response to the Pre-Trial Chamber’s Order requesting additional information.)​

​

◈ On the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), a faction of the Arab Palestinians assumed control.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

There is no special universally accepted international legal or political meaning to the word "country." The word "nation" has a specific Diplomatic meaning, but no universally accepted international legal meaning.

​

nation. (1) An aggregation of people who, as the result of having certain important phenomena in common – such​

as descent, language, history, culture, or simply feeling – assert that collectively they constitute a national unit. See​

also self-determination. (2) A popular synonym for *sovereign state (sometimes extended to ‘nation state’).​

​

​

SOURCE: Palgrave MacMillan Dictionary of Diplomacy, 3d Ed. Page 255,​

© G. R. Berridge, Lorna Lloyd, and Alan James, 2012​

​

Most Respectfully,
R
View attachment 382522

It could be that I live in a place where 50 "states" make up a larger "country."

Palestine is a territory with international borders and a centuries old permanent population. I call that a country. That it has been under the boot of world powers its entire life does not change that. No foreign power has the authority to change that.

"I call that a country''

Indeed, your decree is not convincing, despite your presumed title of his Majesty, the Emir of Pal'istan.

 

[P F Tinmore]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: One of the tactical objectives is to get the greater population of Arab Palestinians to displace the current leadership and replaces it → so that a "nation" can be built.

It could be that I live in a place where 50 "states" make up a larger "country."

Palestine is a territory with international borders and a centuries old permanent population. I call that a country. That it has been under the boot of world powers its entire life does not change that. No foreign power has the authority to change that.

(COMMENT)

Again, the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine no longer exists as a single "Entity." The "entity" has a single and continuous boundary known as "Palestine." That title identified the Government of Palestine under British Administration. It was not under the control or sovereign to the Arab Palestinians at any time in the last Millenium; except as (a possibility only) explained in Posting #67, supra.

What are you using as a valid criterion or definition of a "Country?"
The West Bank Population of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was, during the period 1950 to 1988, citizens of The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. You cannot claim your deductive argument sound since the premise is → in part untrue.

(REQUIRES CLARIFICATION)

I am unsure as to what you claim that a Foreign Power cannot change. What criteria are you talking about?

◈ For example, are you talking about the Crimea and the change made in the boundary of Ukraine is physically unchanged?​

◈ For example, are you talking about Tibet, an Autonomous Region of China, once independent and sovereign?​

​

And what about the issue of "The People's Republic of China (PRC) sovereignty claims to the South China Sea, the building of artificial islands to extend it territorial presence (by means other than military aggression)?

​

​

Most Respectfully,
R

Again, the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine no longer exists as a single "Entity."

See illegal external interference.

I am unsure as to what you claim that a Foreign Power cannot change. What criteria are you talking about?

Virtually every Palestinian right has been violated by foerign aggression.

 

[rylah]

Where do you get this shit?

Specifically what?
Do try to make a sound argument.

 

[rylah]

INITIAL QUESTION: in case there's a building with militants about whom there's information of readiness to attack your side,and before/after the attack, they put babies at the windows. Who's responsible for their death if they get killed?
SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ et al,

BLUF: At the end of the day, the objective is to "Break the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" such that they no longer want to conduct Hostile Operations as an Opposing Force (OPFOR).

(COMMENT)

✪ As a consequence of employing (100%) successful operations means "peace" becomes the "ground truth."

That is an ideal objective and outcome. In the case of the Arab - Israeli Conflict, we will not (if ever) see that outcome in my lifetime. You would have to totally eliminate the entire Arab Palestinian population. No Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) survivors, - no hostilities - peaceful outcome. (That is unrealistic!)

So, we know at the outset, 100% success is unachievable. But, "Breaking the Spirit and Will of the Arab Palestinians" is an obtainable objective. The tactics employed must:

◈ Fall within the range of being Humanitarianly acceptable. (No scorch-earth → No total elimination.)​

◈ It must be inside the limits of Customary Law.​

◈ It must be politically defendable actions.​

◈ The capitulation must be an announcement originating from the Arab Palestinians.​

​

In WWII, this was accomplished in a number of ways. Entire cities were incinerated; burnt to the ground. Damns were destroyed. The industry was ground-down to a halt. One Allied Power would bomb by day, while another Allied Power would bomb by night. It was destruction on a massive scale.

Of course, WWII Tactics cannot be employed. But the Israelis are attempting to chock-off support HoAP, through award (reinforcement for good behaviors) and punishment (loss of something important as a consequence for bad behaviors).

These questions about the destruction of home and crops, reduced water and new settlements in Area "C", are nothing more than the consequence for bad behaviors. The question is:

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the Firestorms in the Dresden Effect? ​

.......................................................→ OR → ​

◈ Do the Arab Palestinians want the more tempered slow choking and strangulation?​

The Arab Palestinian has spent more of an effort trying to justify their past practices of criminal behaviors, then they have trying to fix their leadership problems. Out of these hundreds of Resolutions singling out Israel for one thing or another, it is a very good thing that the Jewish People have a National Home to which they can retreat to protect themselves from the lack of justice emanating from the International Community.

Just how friendly and innocent are the HoAP:

Years: (between 2017 and 2018)
Global Terrorism Database (GTD)
SEARCH RESULTS: 97 INCIDENTS
All incidents regardless of doubt.
Country: (Israel)

View attachment 382317
​

(QUESTION)

How many attacks would your country accept before it retaliated with sufficient force to eliminate the threat and its infrastructure and support mechanism? What would that look like?


Most Respectfully,
R

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

Genocide of a people in their own country - is the goal of Hamas.

 

[rylah]

SUB EMPHASIS: Effectiveness of Tactics
RE: Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: This is another one of your tactics to intentionally mislead the reader.

Are you suggesting genocide of a people in their own country?

(ANSWER)

I did not come anywhere close to saying that. Not at all.

First, it is not their country. With the exception of the Gaza Strip and the Designated Area "A" land, there is NO political subdivision under which the Arab Palestinians have established self-governing institutions → absent control or oversight by an external power.

◈ On the occasion of the Internationally Witnessed Agreement between the State of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)[Oslo I (1993); Oslo II (1995)] and the designation of Area "A" (See Map below) [≈18% (407.34 sq mi) of the West Bank], the PLO assumed full civil and security control. (ICC-01/18-135 05-06-2020 2/13 NM PT The State of Palestine’s response to the Pre-Trial Chamber’s Order requesting additional information.)​

​

◈ On the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (2005), a faction of the Arab Palestinians assumed control.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

There is no special universally accepted international legal or political meaning to the word "country." The word "nation" has a specific Diplomatic meaning, but no universally accepted international legal meaning.

​

nation. (1) An aggregation of people who, as the result of having certain important phenomena in common – such​

as descent, language, history, culture, or simply feeling – assert that collectively they constitute a national unit. See​

also self-determination. (2) A popular synonym for *sovereign state (sometimes extended to ‘nation state’).​

​

​

SOURCE: Palgrave MacMillan Dictionary of Diplomacy, 3d Ed. Page 255,​

© G. R. Berridge, Lorna Lloyd, and Alan James, 2012​

​

Most Respectfully,
R
View attachment 382522

Thanks for the map of the South African style Bantustans.

Why are you so obsessively trying to make it about skin color?

 

[rylah]

It could be that I live in a place where 50 "states" make up a larger "country."

Palestine is a territory with international borders and a centuries old permanent population. I call that a country. That it has been under the boot of world powers its entire life does not change that. No foreign power has the authority to change that.

"Centuries old permanent population" - that hasn't yet learned to pronounce the name of the place?

Indeed, Arab control of the MENA region,
is in many ways similar to American imperialism.

 

[Ropey]

"Palestine" is not an Arab name however much of the arena does still hold onto their ancient Hebrew names. Hebron for example.

 

[rylah]

"Palestine" is not an Arab name however much of the arena does still hold onto their ancient Hebrew names. Hebron for example.

What do you think about the Arab tactics in this conflict?
Any effectiveness worth mentioning?

Or the "Basic Moral Question" in my opening post.

 

[Ropey]

"Palestine" is not an Arab name however much of the arena does still hold onto their ancient Hebrew names. Hebron for example.

What do you think about the Arab tactics in this conflict?
Any effectiveness worth mentioning?

Or the "Basic Moral Question" in my opening post.

The Arab tactic of using their own as self-exploding bombs was not well thought out.

This is an all consuming tactic that Hamas uses and it will consume them. While Jews hide their young away in protective tunnels, Hamas puts theirs front and center and uses the tunnels for their leaders.

That says it all.