Is the US in a Depression?

[Mr Liberty]

Yes we are depressed that democrats have stolen our grankids future and gave it to democrat interests calling it a stimulus plan.


Poverty up
Unemplyment high
Foreclosures up
Gitmo Open
Gas prices up
Democrat Lobbyists control washington
Earmarks on every bill
Illegal Libyan wars that cost 40 million per day borrowed from China
More division than anytime since the civil war


Of course we are depressed


Democrats create ghettos



and are right on track


Bankrupting the country





Democrats are scum

Wall Street stole your grandchildrens' futures and Republicans AND Democrats took turns helping in every way they could.

btw, the richest 1% of Americans only know one word.
M-O-R-E

They are not through taking.

The rich didn't take it, the government did.

 

[georgephillip]

Not according to a Wiki definition relating to any economic downturn where real GDP declines by more than 10% or a recession that lasts longer than two years.

There is an argument that when the Fed buys $600 billion worth of US Treasuries (QE2) it is effectively sending investors into riskier assets like stocks and commodities.

"Is there an element of class warfare in the policy?"

"You bet there is. It's a direct subsidy to the investment class while workers face higher prices on everything from gasoline to corn flakes."

"While rising headline inflation (gas and food) is painful for workers and people on fixed income, it actually intensifies the downturn by diverting money from other areas of consumption. So, discretionary spending falls and the economy begins to contract.

"It's more proof that we're in a Depression."

Author Mike Whitney makes the claim the US economy is essentially comatose, and the Fed has been QE-ing strings around its hands and feet to produce marionette movements; however, with no props or support system, "the economy would drop to its knees, gasp for air, and exipire. Dead."

Mike Whitney: Hyperinflation? No Way

How would things change if the US dollar loses its status as the global reserve currency?

It didn't get to be a pretentious global debate for nothing; the question being raised over and over is a fair indicator all the symptoms are present. The catchy phrase Great Recession saw notoriety for a bit.

You can find design--purposeful and not--for classwarfare in many a venue all around us today and more avenues en route where that came from.--Oh that it were limited to places like here. Such a disaster is finally only a further ripening climate for creating yet more of the same divide--mother of all vicious circles.

The dollar has already taken such a dive, to the detriment of us all, I hate to think of humbling it any further, lol, omg.

The Great Divergence has been building since the late 70s. Growing income inequality facilitated by government socializing risk and privatize profit for a fortunate few is another vicious mother to consider.

Why we can't ignore growing income inequality. (1) - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

 

[georgephillip]

I agree it's not officially a Depression,but I bet a whole bunch of Americans are depressed and with good reason.I don't feel good about this country's future at all right now.The stock market is up but is that a false indicator,another bubble about to burst.If the market nose dives again it's all over folks.

If that next crash were to occur in November of 2012, how many people that you know would consider FLUSHING Republicans AND Democrats from DC?

 

[william the wie]

So anything Liberal is OUT.

add conservative to that post and you are saying something.

 

[georgephillip]

There seems to be a fairly broad consensus from one end of the political dial to the other that you are right. Whitney makes the case in his article that 1st Quarter GDP has been revised down to two percent and may be headed even lower.

"Have you noticed that unemployment is stuck at 8.8 percent and underemployment at 16.2 percent with more people falling off the rolls and into abject poverty every day? Did you see that manufacturing is starting to slip and 'the production index, a key measure of state manufacturing conditions, fell from 24 to 8, indicating slower growth in output.'

"Do you realize that the downturn in housing is getting more ferocious even after falling steadily for 5 years straight?

"Have you considered the fact that the government and Fed have pumped trillions of dollars of monetary and fiscal stimulus into the financial system with just about nothing to show for it?

"And, do you know why? Because we're in a Depression, that's why.

Mike Whitney: Hyperinflation? No Way

I have to agree. I think we are in a Depression, or close to it. The fact is we get our figures and statistics from the government, for the most part. And how on earth can we trust them? How do we know they are giving us accurate information? Especially when they have every motive to hide the truth from us in order to keep their power.

This is why we need to seek the truth and hang on to good princples. We need to prepare for what's coming.

And also why we need to seriously consider how much would Change in November of 2012 if 100, 200, (more?) mostly Democrats AND a few Republicans were FLUSHED from the US Congress and White House.

This tool we're communicating with right now makes it doable.

All we need is the Will.

 

[georgephillip]

Somebody back there mentioned ghetto's...........indeed........the more ghetto's the better for Democrats. always been that way............only suckers dont realize........

How about FLUSHING 100 - 200 Democrats from the US Congress in 2012 and replace them with Greens and Libertarians?

How about FLUSHING the punk in the White House and replacing him with The Donald (or whoever?)

 

[georgephillip]

It will get ugly. Very ugly. That's how it will change.

And it's something we should be seriously concerned about.

There seems to be a fairly broad consensus from one end of the political dial to the other that you are right. Whitney makes the case in his article that 1st Quarter GDP has been revised down to two percent and may be headed even lower.

"Have you noticed that unemployment is stuck at 8.8 percent and underemployment at 16.2 percent with more people falling off the rolls and into abject poverty every day? Did you see that manufacturing is starting to slip and 'the production index, a key measure of state manufacturing conditions, fell from 24 to 8, indicating slower growth in output.'

"Do you realize that the downturn in housing is getting more ferocious even after falling steadily for 5 years straight?

"Have you considered the fact that the government and Fed have pumped trillions of dollars of monetary and fiscal stimulus into the financial system with just about nothing to show for it?

"And, do you know why? Because we're in a Depression, that's why.

Mike Whitney: Hyperinflation? No Way

Or at least they've come in better in some capacity recently, I don't know which but somebody was trying to instill more confidence recently on that note.

Simple fact is, though, infrastructure itself is rather a Major player in the whole 'indicators' scenario and that's been reported 'crumbling' on all sorts of planes, mnfg certainly didn't escape criticism.

Besides, wanna talk obvious indicators, howsabout all that foreign ownership, our industry has been all but gutted, sold out from under us right out the back door... What more indicator do we need, people?

Heal thyself, invest in Thyself. Really not difficult math at all.

Only the Soviet Union during the last decade of its existence lost more jobs than we have in the last ten years.

There's nothing on our horizon capable of turning that around.

If you remember how you felt the week following 911, that is probably how we'll be feeling when this economy finally goes belly up.

Only this time there will be no one to carpet bomb.

 

[georgephillip]

Cashflow from USG to citizens is positive. Household real wealth is down and is likely to sink further. Prices of necessities such as food and fuel are way up. Obama makes Carter look like a great president. This will get real interesting.

Where's Reagan when we really need him?

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, I'll tell ya what, according to the BLS website, the total unemployment number in 2009 was 81,659k and 83,941k in 2010. The number of unemployed not seeking a job due to being discouraged was 778k in 2009 and 1,173k in 2010. I'm thinking those people and their families and friends are thinking we're in a depression.

Don't know what the numbers look like so far in 2011, maybe a little better. Hope so anyway, we need more jobs bad.

 

[georgephillip]

No, we are in a state of temporary stupidity. It will pass without too much being done about it.

Some of the least stupid people on the planet are playing shell games with taxpayer dollars. Should we do something about that?

"A study requested by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) found numerous instances during the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009 when banks took near zero-interest funds from the Federal Reserve and then loaned money back to the federal government on sweetheart terms for the banks.(AP/J. Scott Applewhite)...

'"This report confirms that ultra-low interest loans provided by the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis turned out to be direct corporate welfare to big banks,' Sanders said.

"'Instead of using the Fed loans to reinvest in the economy, some of the largest financial institutions in this country appear to have lent this money back to the federal government at a higher rate of interest by purchasing U.S. government securities.'”

Analysis: Banks Play Shell Game with Taxpayer Dollars | Common Dreams

What's he doin' on this plane?

Bernie?

Can you say "single payer?"

 

[georgephillip]

Yes we are depressed that democrats have stolen our grankids future and gave it to democrat interests calling it a stimulus plan.


Poverty up
Unemplyment high
Foreclosures up
Gitmo Open
Gas prices up
Democrat Lobbyists control washington
Earmarks on every bill
Illegal Libyan wars that cost 40 million per day borrowed from China
More division than anytime since the civil war


Of course we are depressed


Democrats create ghettos



and are right on track


Bankrupting the country





Democrats are scum

Wall Street stole your grandchildrens' futures and Republicans AND Democrats took turns helping in every way they could.

btw, the richest 1% of Americans only know one word.
M-O-R-E

They are not through taking.

The rich didn't take it, the government did.

Seriously consider the possibility there's a domestic axis of terror consisting of the richest US citizens, big business and government responsible for taking the money.

"Business and the rich insisted on (and the federal government complied with) corporate bailouts costing huge sums of public money.

"The state borrowed that money rather than taxing big business and the richest 5 percent of citizens.

"Indeed, it borrowed a good deal of the money from big business and the rich who had funds to lend because 1) those funds had not been taxed, and 2) the depressed global economy offered less attractive alternatives for those funds."

Prospects for the U.S. Left: Not Bad At All | Professor Richard D. Wolff

There's an understanding among the axis that "government" will serve as the public's whipping boy when things go wrong as they often will when you socialize cost and privatize profit for a few.

 

[georgephillip]

Well, I'll tell ya what, according to the BLS website, the total unemployment number in 2009 was 81,659k and 83,941k in 2010. The number of unemployed not seeking a job due to being discouraged was 778k in 2009 and 1,173k in 2010. I'm thinking those people and their families and friends are thinking we're in a depression.

Don't know what the numbers look like so far in 2011, maybe a little better. Hope so anyway, we need more jobs bad.

Any ideas?

National high-speed rail?

Universal internet?

More domestic oil and gas production?

 

[Mr Liberty]

Somebody back there mentioned ghetto's...........indeed........the more ghetto's the better for Democrats. always been that way............only suckers dont realize........

How about FLUSHING 100 - 200 Democrats from the US Congress in 2012 and replace them with Greens and Libertarians?

How about FLUSHING the punk in the White House and replacing him with The Donald (or whoever?)

We need our businesses back. I say we send CEOs and libertarians. The CEO told our politicians years ago what need to be done. Intel CEO: U.S. faces looming tech decline | Politics and Law - CNET News

 

[georgephillip]

I'm not sure we can afford the CEOs.

"According to the Federal Reserve, U.S. corporations held a record $1.93 trillion in cash on their balance sheets in 2010. But they are not investing to expand their companies, grow the real economy or create good middle-class jobs. Corporate CEOs are literally hoarding their company’s cash—except when it comes to their own paychecks.

"In 2010, Standard & Poor's 500 Index company CEOs received, on average, $11.4 million in total compensation— a 23 percent increase in one year.[1]

"Based on 299 companies’ most recent pay data for 2010, their combined total CEO pay of $3.4 billion could support 102,325 median workers’ jobs.[2]"

2011 Executive PayWatch

Libertarians and Green Party candidates, for the most part, would arrive in DC without the fund raising mindset that characterizes most Republicans AND Democrats. Hopefully that would translate into legislation favoring small business owners, labor and consumers at the expense of America's richest 1%.

"Chris Marangi, associate portfolio manager at Gamco Investors in Rye, N.Y., said Tuesday: 'Capital is agnostic. It doesn't have a religion. It doesn't have a philosophy. It goes where it finds the highest returns.' The problem, Marangi said, is that many other 'countries have a more friendly regulatory regime than we do.'"

Capital is not only agnostic, it is the greatest central planning mechanism ever invented. Ultimately, it seems to rest on the belief in infinite growth on a world of finite resources.

Some are calling that insane.(and greedy)

Intel CEO: U.S. faces looming tech decline | Politics and Law - CNET News

 

[pinqy]

Well, I'll tell ya what, according to the BLS website, the total unemployment number in 2009 was 81,659k and 83,941k in 2010.

Actually, you're excluding the unemployed with those numbers. You're citing the Not in the Labor Force numbers: those not working or looking for work. That's everyone in the adult civilian non-institutional population who are neither employed nor unemployed (defined as looking for work). Most of the Not in the Labor Force don't want a job...they're retirees, full time students, stay at home spouses, disabled, etc.

The number of unemployed not seeking a job due to being discouraged was 778k in 2009 and 1,173k in 2010.

Technically, they're not unemployed, because they're not trying to work.

Don't know what the numbers look like so far in 2011, maybe a little better. Hope so anyway, we need more jobs bad.

Not in the Labor Force has averaged 86,120,000 (not seasonally adjusted). BUT, while NILF is going up, that's mostly due to people joining the population (mostly by turning 16) and not looking for work. Actual unemployment is going down and while employment is still below 2010 avg, it is going up from the last few months.

My educated opinion is that as of Jan 2011, we've started an upswing in Labor Force and Employment. It might take a little bit for people to start looking for jobs again, but the signs I see are pointing to modest improvements (though quality of jobs and full time are lagging some).

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What we're in ain't good and is getting worse.

 

[editec]

Depends on how one defines a DEPRESSION, of course.

Taking the current definition that most economists will accept, NO, we did not have a depression.

Looking at the economy from the POV of many Americans?

We've been in a depression for decades.

The bottom quintile has been in a depression for about 40 years, folks.

 

[Bones]

Yes we are depressed that democrats have stolen our grankids future and gave it to democrat interests calling it a stimulus plan.


Poverty up
Unemplyment high
Foreclosures up
Gitmo Open
Gas prices up
Democrat Lobbyists control washington
Earmarks on every bill
Illegal Libyan wars that cost 40 million per day borrowed from China
More division than anytime since the civil war


Of course we are depressed


Democrats create ghettos



and are right on track


Bankrupting the country





Democrats are scum

Ah, blow it out your ass. Politicians, bankers, and corporations have indebted this nation (and the world) into oblivion, in broad daylight mind you, and it has nothing to do with the farcical two-party system.

That said, the economy will never recover. Ever. The collapse of the United States is at hand.

 

[georgephillip]

Well, I'll tell ya what, according to the BLS website, the total unemployment number in 2009 was 81,659k and 83,941k in 2010.

Actually, you're excluding the unemployed with those numbers. You're citing the Not in the Labor Force numbers: those not working or looking for work. That's everyone in the adult civilian non-institutional population who are neither employed nor unemployed (defined as looking for work). Most of the Not in the Labor Force don't want a job...they're retirees, full time students, stay at home spouses, disabled, etc.

The number of unemployed not seeking a job due to being discouraged was 778k in 2009 and 1,173k in 2010.

Technically, they're not unemployed, because they're not trying to work.

Don't know what the numbers look like so far in 2011, maybe a little better. Hope so anyway, we need more jobs bad.

Not in the Labor Force has averaged 86,120,000 (not seasonally adjusted). BUT, while NILF is going up, that's mostly due to people joining the population (mostly by turning 16) and not looking for work. Actual unemployment is going down and while employment is still below 2010 avg, it is going up from the last few months.

My educated opinion is that as of Jan 2011, we've started an upswing in Labor Force and Employment. It might take a little bit for people to start looking for jobs again, but the signs I see are pointing to modest improvements (though quality of jobs and full time are lagging some).

If the US dollar ceased being the world's reserve currency, how would that affect US unemployment?

In such a scenario would a New Deal 2.0 be viable?

Is it at all likely the US has reached a "new normal" where there will never again be enough living-wage jobs for those who need them for their basic survival?

 

[georgephillip]

What we're in ain't good and is getting worse.

It seems to be getting worse for at least 90% of Americans. This latest economic crisis has bitten hard, deep and often into millions of workers who have spent their adult lives working hard and playing by the rules.

There may be a sense of betrayal settling into the popular consciousness.

More and more of us, left and right, are beginning to suspect we are living through the first few years of a long term decline that will be much harder on those we leave behind.

We've seen a sudden and vast increase in state debt largely to cover the gambling losses of the rich. The victims of the bail-out are badly divided by birth certificates and corporate celebrities posing as political saviors.

I don't see how we change anything for the better if we limit our rage to Democrat OR Republican or to "government" in general.

This latest looting required a three-headed snake, consisting of government, big business and the richest 1% to 5% of the US population.

We won't make any lasting changes to our economy without serious modification to that snake's way of thinking.

http://www.rdwolff.com/content/prospects-us-left-not-bad-all