CDZ Is it inhumane to not assist with requested suicide?

[MarathonMike]

320years and SaveLiberty are parsing each other's responses to prove who is more intellectual. That's quite annoying because it is a worthy question to ask whether it is inhumane to assist in suicide to one who is helpless but cognitively with it enough to make the conscious choice to end his or her own life. It is not a question of religion, or souls or fetuses, or pain etc. Kindly take your parsing contest to the religion forum or answer the OP.

 

[saveliberty]

The OP was answered, pain is tolerated when for the benefit of the convenient adult, therefore it should be tolerated for that same adult later in life. Humane is letting someone live to the end of their existence. Further, if that person wishes to die a DNR is available as well as taking of their own life unassisted. Btw, you are not in charge of where an argument runs.

 

[oldsoul]

The OP was answered, pain is tolerated when for the benefit of the convenient adult, therefore it should be tolerated for that same adult later in life. Humane is letting someone live to the end of their existence. Further, if that person wishes to die a DNR is available as well as taking of their own life unassisted. Btw, you are not in charge of where an argument runs.

Your condisention is noted and detested.
To the OP, I personally, have no problem with assisted suicide for ANY reason. I have a right to, among other things, "Life Libetry, and the pursuit of Happiness". If I am unhappy with my current situation and wish to end my life, who are you to tell me I cannot? What right do you have to say I do not have the right to end my life? If I have the right to life, it would stand to reason that I also have the right to death.

The only reason to oppose this, posted so far, is a religious/theology based arguement. Therefore, with the separation of church and state, it would be unconstitutional to pass a law forbiding suicide, assisted or not. Wouldn't it? Or is there an arguement that is not based in religion/theology?

 

[320 Years of History]

320years and SaveLiberty are parsing each other's responses to prove who is more intellectual. That's quite annoying because it is a worthy question to ask whether it is inhumane to assist in suicide to one who is helpless but cognitively with it enough to make the conscious choice to end his or her own life. It is not a question of religion, or souls or fetuses, or pain etc. Kindly take your parsing contest to the religion forum or answer the OP.

Red:
It is a legit question, but let's be real...this discussion is an abstract one. USMB is not the place to look for answers were the matter present immediately in one's own life. Were that so, what folks here have to say about it isn't going alter how one behaves. As an abstraction, however, the details found in "parsing" the point may shed some light on how one later arrives at one's own decision.

Blue:
I know the preceding to be so based on my own first hand experience with a 97 year old father who has cancer and the early stages of dementia and an 89 year old mother who's got mid-to-late stage dementia, chronic renal failure, and a host of other maladies. The choices under discussion are ones I must be ready daily to assess and make. So, thank you very much for your presumption of my demonstrating my intellectual prowess, but frankly, you just don't know what the hell you are talking about; you're loud, strong and wrong! Period.

 

[saveliberty]

Your condisention is noted and detested.
To the OP, I personally, have no problem with assisted suicide for ANY reason. I have a right to, among other things, "Life Libetry, and the pursuit of Happiness". If I am unhappy with my current situation and wish to end my life, who are you to tell me I cannot? What right do you have to say I do not have the right to end my life? If I have the right to life, it would stand to reason that I also have the right to death.

The only reason to oppose this, posted so far, is a religious/theology based arguement. Therefore, with the separation of church and state, it would be unconstitutional to pass a law forbiding suicide, assisted or not. Wouldn't it? Or is there an arguement that is not based in religion/theology?

I think part of it is a practical reason. The assisting party could sued or charged with murder/manslaughter. I know, you have a law, that is open to interpretation or the situation may look bad. If you want to die, then have a DNS order and be prepared to kill yourself with pills or whatever. Be responsible for yourself. Remember you are asking someone else to help and live with assisting you. That may prove to be a big burden.

 

[oldsoul]

Your condisention is noted and detested.
To the OP, I personally, have no problem with assisted suicide for ANY reason. I have a right to, among other things, "Life Libetry, and the pursuit of Happiness". If I am unhappy with my current situation and wish to end my life, who are you to tell me I cannot? What right do you have to say I do not have the right to end my life? If I have the right to life, it would stand to reason that I also have the right to death.

The only reason to oppose this, posted so far, is a religious/theology based arguement. Therefore, with the separation of church and state, it would be unconstitutional to pass a law forbiding suicide, assisted or not. Wouldn't it? Or is there an arguement that is not based in religion/theology?

I think part of it is a practical reason. The assisting party could sued or charged with murder/manslaughter. I know, you have a law, that is open to interpretation or the situation may look bad. If you want to die, then have a DNS order and be prepared to kill yourself with pills or whatever. Be responsible for yourself. Remember you are asking someone else to help and live with assisting you. That may prove to be a big burden.

And that is a burden some whould chose to take on. That is THEIR choice, not yours. Furthermore, many times a person who wishes to die, does not have the physical capacity to end their own life. Would you suggest that we disallow them from pursuing death simply because of their lack of physical ability?

 

[saveliberty]

Your condisention is noted and detested.
To the OP, I personally, have no problem with assisted suicide for ANY reason. I have a right to, among other things, "Life Libetry, and the pursuit of Happiness". If I am unhappy with my current situation and wish to end my life, who are you to tell me I cannot? What right do you have to say I do not have the right to end my life? If I have the right to life, it would stand to reason that I also have the right to death.

The only reason to oppose this, posted so far, is a religious/theology based arguement. Therefore, with the separation of church and state, it would be unconstitutional to pass a law forbiding suicide, assisted or not. Wouldn't it? Or is there an arguement that is not based in religion/theology?

I think part of it is a practical reason. The assisting party could sued or charged with murder/manslaughter. I know, you have a law, that is open to interpretation or the situation may look bad. If you want to die, then have a DNS order and be prepared to kill yourself with pills or whatever. Be responsible for yourself. Remember you are asking someone else to help and live with assisting you. That may prove to be a big burden.

And that is a burden some whould chose to take on. That is THEIR choice, not yours. Furthermore, many times a person who wishes to die, does not have the physical capacity to end their own life. Would you suggest that we disallow them from pursuing death simply because of their lack of physical ability?

Yes.

 

[saveliberty]

As a point of information, a drunk .357 BAC used the front of my car to kill himself back in 1983. I might have a little more perspective on this one.

 

[320 Years of History]

Your condisention is noted and detested.
To the OP, I personally, have no problem with assisted suicide for ANY reason. I have a right to, among other things, "Life Libetry, and the pursuit of Happiness". If I am unhappy with my current situation and wish to end my life, who are you to tell me I cannot? What right do you have to say I do not have the right to end my life? If I have the right to life, it would stand to reason that I also have the right to death.

The only reason to oppose this, posted so far, is a religious/theology based arguement. Therefore, with the separation of church and state, it would be unconstitutional to pass a law forbiding suicide, assisted or not. Wouldn't it? Or is there an arguement that is not based in religion/theology?

I think part of it is a practical reason. The assisting party could sued or charged with murder/manslaughter. I know, you have a law, that is open to interpretation or the situation may look bad. If you want to die, then have a DNS order and be prepared to kill yourself with pills or whatever. Be responsible for yourself. Remember you are asking someone else to help and live with assisting you. That may prove to be a big burden.

And that is a burden some whould chose to take on. That is THEIR choice, not yours. Furthermore, many times a person who wishes to die, does not have the physical capacity to end their own life. Would you suggest that we disallow them from pursuing death simply because of their lack of physical ability?

Frankly, the key factor, as I see it now, not as I saw it prior to having to deal with it, is one of quality of life, not just living. Frankly, the quality of life variables are one's every person must decide upon for themselves. For example, some folks may consider that merely being incontinent is sufficient for them to feel their life has come to ruin. Others may feel that they wouldn't want to go on if they are physically incapacitated, but mentally fine (or mostly so), and still others may consider that mental incapacity is their limit. It comes down to what one is willing to deal with and how one wants to live.

Personally, I think there ought to be life ending services available for a fee just as there are life creation services available for a fee. I think that because while we may as a society permit caregivers, family members, etc. to assist in a life ending action, it's quite a lot for many individuals to accept. I suspect too there are folks who want to die, but who don't want to know they are doing so "right now" or "ten minutes from now," so to speak. Some -- caregivers/family or folks desiring to die -- may not be able emotionally to face head on the reality of what they are doing even though they cognitively know its what they want or what their loved one needs/desires, understandably, thus the call for services such as that noted.

 

[oldsoul]

Your condisention is noted and detested.
To the OP, I personally, have no problem with assisted suicide for ANY reason. I have a right to, among other things, "Life Libetry, and the pursuit of Happiness". If I am unhappy with my current situation and wish to end my life, who are you to tell me I cannot? What right do you have to say I do not have the right to end my life? If I have the right to life, it would stand to reason that I also have the right to death.

The only reason to oppose this, posted so far, is a religious/theology based arguement. Therefore, with the separation of church and state, it would be unconstitutional to pass a law forbiding suicide, assisted or not. Wouldn't it? Or is there an arguement that is not based in religion/theology?

I think part of it is a practical reason. The assisting party could sued or charged with murder/manslaughter. I know, you have a law, that is open to interpretation or the situation may look bad. If you want to die, then have a DNS order and be prepared to kill yourself with pills or whatever. Be responsible for yourself. Remember you are asking someone else to help and live with assisting you. That may prove to be a big burden.

And that is a burden some whould chose to take on. That is THEIR choice, not yours. Furthermore, many times a person who wishes to die, does not have the physical capacity to end their own life. Would you suggest that we disallow them from pursuing death simply because of their lack of physical ability?

Yes.

I see, so you discriminate based on physical ability. Not too suprised at your stance on this one.

 

[oldsoul]

As a point of information, a drunk .357 BAC used the front of my car to kill himself back in 1983. I might have a little more perspective on this one.

Irrelevent antidote. Unless, of course, you happened to know that the individual in question was INTENDING to die...

 

[saveliberty]

Frankly, the key factor, as I see it now, not as I saw it prior to having to deal with it, is one of quality of life, not just living. Frankly, the quality of life variables are one's every person must decide upon for themselves. For example, some folks may consider that merely being incontinent is sufficient for them to feel their life has come to ruin. Others may feel that they wouldn't want to go on if they are physically incapacitated, but mentally fine (or mostly so), and still others may consider that mental incapacity is their limit. It comes down to what one is willing to deal with and how one wants to live.

Personally, I think there ought to be life ending services available for a fee just as there are life creation services available for a fee. I think that because while we may as a society permit caregivers, family members, etc. to assist in a life ending action, it's quite a lot for many individuals to accept. I suspect too there are folks who want to die, but who don't want to know they are doing so "right now" or "ten minutes from now," so to speak. Some -- caregivers/family or folks desiring to die -- may not be able emotionally to face head on the reality of what they are doing even though they cognitively know its what they want or what their loved one needs/desires, understandably, thus the call for services such as that noted.

So the rich can die, but who pays for the poor?

 

[saveliberty]

As a point of information, a drunk .357 BAC used the front of my car to kill himself back in 1983. I might have a little more perspective on this one.

Irrelevent antidote. Unless, of course, you happened to know that the individual in question was INTENDING to die...

Fuck you

Psychological evaluations should be conducted on both parties prior.

 

[oldsoul]

As a point of information, a drunk .357 BAC used the front of my car to kill himself back in 1983. I might have a little more perspective on this one.

Irrelevent antidote. Unless, of course, you happened to know that the individual in question was INTENDING to die...

Fuck you

Psychological evaluations should be conducted on both parties prior.

I refuse to tolerate such outburts. Control your emotions if you wish to continue discussing anything with me.

 

[saveliberty]

As a point of information, a drunk .357 BAC used the front of my car to kill himself back in 1983. I might have a little more perspective on this one.

Irrelevent antidote. Unless, of course, you happened to know that the individual in question was INTENDING to die...

Fuck you

Psychological evaluations should be conducted on both parties prior.

I refuse to tolerate such outburts. Control your emotions if you wish to continue discussing anything with me.

You gave a very callous reply to a post you could have just ignored instead of insulting me. You got what you deserved for the attack.

 

[2aguy]

My Sister-In-Law is working part time at a nursing home and some of what she sees and tells me is tragic. There are people who have lost all control of their body and to them life is staring up at the ceiling from their bed. They wear a diaper and have to be lifted with a hoist out of the bed to be taken to the bathroom and cleaned like a baby. The Netherlands has assisted suicide and that seems to be the most humane option for people at end of life that request it. When I get older and if the US doesn't have similar laws in place, I will have my own "exit strategy" because I refuse to go out like that. The key is "requested" because we don't want the State deciding, but the option should be there.

And exactly how will you keep the state out of it once you cross that line.....?

 

[saveliberty]

The state is a big issue, I have a vision of folks sitting under a large tree with a gentle breeze as they slip away watching the sky or ocean. More likely an injection given in a sterile room. To me it would be like a death row sentence, with legal obstacles to give any sort of timely relief to the person requesting the assistance. A huge slippery slope, the fast easy answer is to have an individual exit plan.

 

[320 Years of History]

Frankly, the key factor, as I see it now, not as I saw it prior to having to deal with it, is one of quality of life, not just living. Frankly, the quality of life variables are one's every person must decide upon for themselves. For example, some folks may consider that merely being incontinent is sufficient for them to feel their life has come to ruin. Others may feel that they wouldn't want to go on if they are physically incapacitated, but mentally fine (or mostly so), and still others may consider that mental incapacity is their limit. It comes down to what one is willing to deal with and how one wants to live.

Personally, I think there ought to be life ending services available for a fee just as there are life creation services available for a fee. I think that because while we may as a society permit caregivers, family members, etc. to assist in a life ending action, it's quite a lot for many individuals to accept. I suspect too there are folks who want to die, but who don't want to know they are doing so "right now" or "ten minutes from now," so to speak. Some -- caregivers/family or folks desiring to die -- may not be able emotionally to face head on the reality of what they are doing even though they cognitively know its what they want or what their loved one needs/desires, understandably, thus the call for services such as that noted.

So the rich can die, but who pays for the poor?

Did I say it needed to be expensive? Why have you assumed it would be so dear that poor folks can't muster the money to partake?

 

[Weatherman2020]

My Sister-In-Law is working part time at a nursing home and some of what she sees and tells me is tragic. There are people who have lost all control of their body and to them life is staring up at the ceiling from their bed. They wear a diaper and have to be lifted with a hoist out of the bed to be taken to the bathroom and cleaned like a baby. The Netherlands has assisted suicide and that seems to be the most humane option for people at end of life that request it. When I get older and if the US doesn't have similar laws in place, I will have my own "exit strategy" because I refuse to go out like that. The key is "requested" because we don't want the State deciding, but the option should be there.

Killing murderers is banned in many States because they say there is no humane way to kill them.
And those same people say anyone who wants to kill themselves should be allowed to.
Orwellian.

 

[Gracie]

"I have no issue with one's believing humans have a soul and animals do not"

Animals have souls.