If Anti-Zionism is NOT Anti-Semitism, then why….

[Grau]

… did a New York high school team taunt their opposing team from a Jewish High School with “I support HAMAS, you fucking Jews?”

… have antisemitic attacks skyrocket by 400% since October 7th, and synogogies have beefed up their security systems and hired ex-military guards?

… have Jews been warned to remove their kippahs and Jewish jewelry?

… are Ivy League leftists marching with calls of “Death to Jews” and harassing Jewish students walking across the quad to class?

… are Jews taunted looking at Chanukah decorations and have to walk by Arabs screaming for their genocide?

NOBODY but the radical left is buying the lie that hating Israel has nothing to do with hating Jews, and that anti-Zionism is driven by antisemitism.

High school girls’ basketball game aborted in New York amid antisemitic slurs

Team from private Jewish Leffell School calls an end to game after third quarter as opposing team members shout 'I support Hamas, you f-king Jew,' among other taunts

www.timesofisrael.com

Since nearly half of Israeli Jews support ethnic cleansing, (1) racism is clearly just as prevalent among Israeli Jews as among any other ethnic / Religious group so please stop with the sanctimonious self pity.

Repeatedly howling "anti Semite" is the only rhetorical ploy that Netanyahu's shills have because there is absolutely no rational justification for such blatant Zionist genocide as is currently occurring in the ruins of occupied Gaza.

Finally, the Zionist psycho-Settlers who have murdered over 120 West Bank Arabs, (2) destroyed their homes and stolen their land are far more malevolent than than those loyal Americans with the courage and integrity to condemn American funded Zionist genocide that is severely detrimental to America's best interests.



(1). “Nearly half of Israeli Jews believe in ethnic cleansing, survey finds”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/almost-half-of-israeli-jews-want-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html

EXCERPT “Almost half of Jewish Israelis believe Arabs should be "expelled or transferred" from Israel, a survey has found.

A study carried out by the Pew Research Centre found that around one in five adults questioned “strongly agreed” with the controversial statement, which amounts to ethnic cleansing under some definitions.

The Encyclopaedia Britannica describes the act as “attempting to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic group”, while a United Nations report in 1993 additionally specified the use of “force or intimidation”.CONTINUED



(2). "Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers"

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Settlers Who Are Killing West Bank Palestinians

Or risk losing any moral authority in this war.

slate.com

EXCERPT "Since Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack, settlers there have killed more than 120 Palestinians and injured at least 2,000. They have forcibly expelled more than 800 Palestinians from their homes, blown up their generators and solar panels, and burned down tents of Bedouin herders.

Again: This has been going on not in Gaza but in the West Bank—which is governed by the Palestinian Authority, not by Hamas. Some of those killed were members of militant groups, but most were attacked simply because they were Palestinians. In any case, they had nothing to do with Hamas’ attack on Israel from Gaza." CONTINUED

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

He didn’t forget. His antisemitism is making him think that all this is the Jews’ fault, and thus only they can end it.

Israel can stop the bombing and the shelling..because they have the bombs and the shells.
Given the fact that Hamas are terrorists and unless they are shooting at you and you can actually see them, then the IDF is just going to be perceived as indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians. I believe we are up to almost 25K Palestinians dead now?

The fault here lies with the Israeli government, who not only let their own people down and allowed 10/7 to unfold and be executed right under their noses, but are now insuring that there will be another generation of enemies for it to fight..which is exactly what I believe Netanyahu and the Likud hardliners want.

The losers here are Israeli Jews and Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

 

[surada]

GOLDSTEIN: Israelâs enormous blunder â it helped to create Hamas

While it’s hard to imagine in today’s context, Israel actually encouraged the creation of Hamas, leading up to its founding in 1987.

torontosun.com

Israel's historical role in the rise of Hamas

The complicated relationship between Israel and Hamas with the the 'Frankenstein' Jewish state help create

www.japantimes.co.jp

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

 

[rosends]

… did a New York high school team taunt their opposing team from a Jewish High School with “I support HAMAS, you fucking Jews?”

… have antisemitic attacks skyrocket by 400% since October 7th, and synogogies have beefed up their security systems and hired ex-military guards?

… have Jews been warned to remove their kippahs and Jewish jewelry?

… are Ivy League leftists marching with calls of “Death to Jews” and harassing Jewish students walking across the quad to class?

… are Jews taunted looking at Chanukah decorations and have to walk by Arabs screaming for their genocide?

NOBODY but the radical left is buying the lie that hating Israel has nothing to do with hating Jews, and that anti-Zionism is driven by antisemitism.

High school girls’ basketball game aborted in New York amid antisemitic slurs

Team from private Jewish Leffell School calls an end to game after third quarter as opposing team members shout 'I support Hamas, you f-king Jew,' among other taunts

www.timesofisrael.com

what I'm finding most amazing about this thread (and I guess it happens on many threads) is that the actual topic you raise is being ignored by people and, instead, people are trying to shift the conversation to something else. You are asking about why there is an increase in attacks against Jews worldwide, including attacks against Jews in which Israel is invoked when the Jews in question are not in Israel, nor responsible for Israel's actions.

There is no answer other than, in the mind of many people, Israel and Judaism are closely linked so the easiest shorthand for trying to criticize Israel is to attack Jews. Yes, there are Jews who don't support specific policies of Israel. Yes, there are Muslims who DO support the policies of Israel. Yes, there are other instances in the world in which countries have to defend themselves and no one bats an eye.

But the easiest target has always been the Jew and if part of that targeting is the assignation of proxy status so that the haters of the world don't have to think too hard, then that's the way it will continue to be. Elsewhere and clearly here.

 

[Roudy]

Anti Zionism has always been antisemitism in disguise. If the Jews in Israel were to all convert to Islam and swear allegiance to Mohammad as the final messenger, this conflict would no longer exist. Then Muslims could continue massacring each other over who which sect, Shiite or Sunni, controls the cradle of Islam, Mecca. When Muslims have no non Muslims to hate and kill, they immediately start killing each other.

 

[Lisa558]

what I'm finding most amazing about this thread (and I guess it happens on many threads) is that the actual topic you raise is being ignored by people and, instead, people are trying to shift the conversation to something else. You are asking about why there is an increase in attacks against Jews worldwide, including attacks against Jews in which Israel is invoked when the Jews in question are not in Israel, nor responsible for Israel's actions.

There is no answer other than, in the mind of many people, Israel and Judaism are closely linked so the easiest shorthand for trying to criticize Israel is to attack Jews. Yes, there are Jews who don't support specific policies of Israel. Yes, there are Muslims who DO support the policies of Israel. Yes, there are other instances in the world in which countries have to defend themselves and no one bats an eye.

But the easiest target has always been the Jew and if part of that targeting is the assignation of proxy status so that the haters of the world don't have to think too hard, then that's the way it will continue to be. Elsewhere and clearly here.

Yes, and for how many years have we heard “being anti-Israel is not being anti-Jew”? What is happening to Jews here in America proves that it is. Even more, the anti-Israel hate being shouted from the rooftops, while there is no mention of the absolutely barbaric, inhumane massacre by Muslims of Jews, is DRIVEN by antisemitism.

 

[Roudy]

Yes, and for how many years have we heard “being anti-Israel is not being anti-Jew”? What is happening to Jews here in America Proves that it is.

Islam is very different than other faiths. Islam has to not only be the dominant ideology in how a country is to be governed, but commands that its followers spread this ideology to the rest of the world, by whatever means necessary.

That is why Muslims lay claim to lands that used to be under Muslim control, such as Spain and parts of southern Europe, and brazenly vow that the flag of a Islam will fly from the top of not only the White House but all Western capitals.

That is also why Islamist’s are never nationalistic or patriotic, or sentimental about a country’s history or achievements etc., such Irans leaders, ISIS, AL Queda, the Taliban, Hamas etc. they couldn't give a shit about a country’s history, culture, OR PEOPLE. The goal is only and only one thing, that Islam rules over the land. Islamists keep telling the world this, but nobody is listening. Islam has no borders and is the ultimate globalist ideology.

This conflict between Israel and the Palestinians was never about land, it was always about Muslim hatred, intolerance and violence towards Jews and non Muslims, and making sure that the flag of Islam will eventually fly over Jerusalem, aka Al Quds for Arabs. In a way we are still living in medieval times, except The weapons have gotten deadlier.

 

[jwoodie]

Yes, and for how many years have we heard “being anti-Israel is not being anti-Jew”? What is happening to Jews here in America proves that it is. Even more, the anti-Israel hate being shouted from the rooftops, while there is no mention of the absolutely barbaric, inhumane massacre by Muslims of Jews, is DRIVEN by antisemitism.

I think that a definition of "antisemitism" is needed in this thread. Is it different from any other discrimination based on race,color, creed or religion? Or must it be given unique status because of the Nazi Holocaust?

In the same vein, does the term "Zionism" refer to a safe gathering place for Jews, or ownership of a specific piece of land in Palestine? I doubt many people object to the former (such as NYC?), but a divine right to control certain real estate is usually reserved for American Indians operating gambling casinos.

 

[FDR_Reagan]

i don't think one is required

I'm glad you said "jews" - exposing who you are after, especially given the thread title.

 

[luiza]

He didn’t forget.

this is the Jews’ fault, and thus only they can end it.

More like
This is all the Jews fault and God will end them .

Three cheers for God .
New God convert .

 

[yidnar]

i don't think one is required to hate jews to tell them "enough is enough" and to ask them to please treat their neighbors humanely.

anticipating your first objection, the "they do it 1st/most/worse

meanwhile the usa, negotiating as adults with iran or who ever to similasrly influence the palastinians.

is that how you interpret the verbal insults and hate directed at the Jewish students ?

 

[The Duke]

No question about it. You're the number one victims in the world.

So just fuck the black Americans, amirite?

 

[Shusha]

Also, if you held all Jews everywhere accountable for the actions of the Israeli government, that would be anti-Zionism as well. However, that isn't happening.

No. It would be antisemitism. And it is happening. That is the point of the OP.

Again, legitimate criticism of the Israel government for their actions regarding the Palestinians..is NOT antisemitism or anti-Zionism.

While I agree that legitimate criticism of Israeli government policies and actions are neither antisemitism nor anti-Zionism (which is ALWAYS antisemitism), legitimate criticism of the policies and actions of the Israeli government are so very rare, it is nearly pointless to bring it up.

… did a New York high school team taunt their opposing team from a Jewish High School with “I support HAMAS, you fucking Jews?”

Wishing genocide, torture, rape on Jews. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism. Of the genocidal sort.

… have antisemitic attacks skyrocket by 400% since October 7th,

Attacks on Jews for being Jews. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

and synogogies have beefed up their security systems and hired ex-military guards?

Attacks on Jews in synagogues. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

… have Jews been warned to remove their kippahs and Jewish jewelry?

Attacks on individual Jews who wear objects depicting their faith. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

… are Ivy League leftists marching with calls of “Death to Jews” and harassing Jewish students walking across the quad to class?

Calling for genocide against Jews. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

There is no credible line one could draw that could be defined as "anti-Zionism" that is not also antisemitism.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

No. It would be antisemitism. And it is happening. That is the point of the OP.

While I agree that legitimate criticism of Israeli government policies and actions are neither antisemitism nor anti-Zionism (which is ALWAYS antisemitism), legitimate criticism of the policies and actions of the Israeli government are so very rare, it is nearly pointless to bring it up.


Wishing genocide, torture, rape on Jews. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism. Of the genocidal sort.

Attacks on Jews for being Jews. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

Attacks on Jews in synagogues. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

Attacks on individual Jews who wear objects depicting their faith. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

Calling for genocide against Jews. Not legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. Antisemitism.

There is no credible line one could draw that could be defined as "anti-Zionism" that is not also antisemitism.

I'm not sure what you missed in the article I linked but your first sentence is incorrect.

Your second sentence all but dismisses any form of legitimate criticism of the Israeli government by religating it to "rare" and "pointless".
This is exactly how the government of Israel has been allowed to get away with their treatment of Palestinians for decades. It's how you dehumanize a people.
It's how you can take their land, their livelyhoods, and sanction violence and murder against. them. You marginalize them.

 

[Matted Joybeard]

I think that a definition of "antisemitism" is needed in this thread. Is it different from any other discrimination based on race,color, creed or religion? Or must it be given unique status because of the Nazi Holocaust

"An anti-Semite used to be a person who disliked Jews. Now it is a person who Jews dislike." ~ Hajo Meyer

 

[Shusha]

Your second sentence all but dismisses any form of legitimate criticism of the Israeli government by religating it to "rare" and "pointless".

See, even when I provide for you the solution about how to have a conversation that is not antisemitic, you go ahead and prove that you can't. I would LOVE to have a serious conversation about the actual policies of the Israeli government. I've been offering invitations for years. Every conversation ends up with some version of making sweeping statements that are not legitimate criticisms.

It's how you dehumanize a people.

Not legitimate criticism of the Israeli government. I am not dehumanizing anyone, let alone a "people", by pointing out that it is incredibly rare to find someone to discuss the facts on their own merits, rather than making sweeping accusations. Like you do in your very next sentence.

It's how you can take their land, their livelyhoods, and sanction violence and murder against. them. You marginalize them.

Not legitimate criticism of the Israeli government.

Who is the "you" here? Who "took their land"? Who "took their livelihoods?" Who "sanctions violence"? Who "murders them"? Who "marginalizes" them?

If you want to have a legitimate conversation, let's do it. Let's discuss who has legitimate claims to territories and how those claims arose. Let's talk about the violence that occurs in the territories, why it occurs, and how it might be differently handled.

I suspect already that you will be no different than the vast majority of posters here. But prove me wrong and I will be ecstatically happy.

 

[expat500]

 

[Lisa558]

Worthy of a distinct thread.

 

[fncceo]

An anti-Zionist is an anti-Semite who is still embarrassed to publicly share an ideology with The Nazis.

Being an anti-Zionist is, for now, the only politically correct way to call for the slaughter of Jews.

 

[surada]

Thanks for proving my point. Any response to the examples to the horrific antisemitism being spewed against American Jews?

And your ”enough is enough” comment is telling as well. Where is your criticism for the Muslim savages who kicked off the war with their barbaric torture - beheading babies, setting children on fire, slicing off woman’s breasts and then tossing the bloody tissue around like a game?

Your siding against the Jewish country is BECAUSE it is a Jewish country.

Israel funded and encouraged the formation of Hamas in 1987. They were an Israeli strategy to prevent any 2 state solution ever. Netyanjahu funded them through Qatar. Israel has dressed up like Arabs in the past to carry out false flag operations like the Lavon Affair and the bombing of the King David hotel.

This is all part of their Light unto the Nations bullshit.