I have seen the light

[M14 Shooter]

What do you think cops would feel about you laying down supressive fire in a neighborhood full of families?

If Truth matters, why are you forced to resort to such inane hyperbole?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids Each Year | momlogic.com

Only 500?
Given that there are 300,000,000 gun in the US, that's pretty good.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Narrow minds foster narrow views, don't they skull?

That certainly explains the drivel you present...

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ok, look -- no response from NK.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/153250-i-have-seen-the-light-12.html#post3272390

Color me surprised.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am really glad I found this forum. I get to watch, for free, two sides go at each other. Some have communication skills, others do not. The neat thing is there is no middle ground only polarized discussion.

First, welcome to USMB. We hope you find a satisfactory message board home here.

But I do wonder what you consider to be the 'middle ground'?

Is it those who think the average citizen should not have guns?

Is it those who think the average citizen should be limited to no more fire power than would likely be needed to defend themselves?

Is it those who think if certain weapons are denied responsible citizens that the problem is solved?

Is it those who know that irresponsible citizens don't give a flying fig about the law or what might be illegal and will obtain those weapons anyway?

Is it those who don't care how much fire power the average citizen has when that citizen needs to defend himself or those he loves or cares about?

Is it those who thinks there should be no limitation on what kind of fire power should be legal all the way up to a Bradley Tank, 105 Recoiless rifle, nuclear bomb, whatever?

Is it those who look at the tiny percentage of gun accidents among responsible citizens while ignoring the mayhem and chaos committed by irresponsible citizens?

Is it those who can't conceive of a situation in which a homeowner might need to shoot somebody or who think such incidents are so rare that it is better they suffer harm than take what is presumed a larger risk that they will unnecessarily shoot somebody?

*************************

Perhaps you'll describe the middle ground in all this and enlighten us as to how none of us are in it?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Perhaps you'll describe the middle ground in all this and enlighten us as to how none of us are in it?

Compromise necessitates that each side gives a little to the other in order to get most of what they want. Inherent in that is that each side must have something to give to the other

The anti-gun crowd has nothing to give to the pro-gun side.

Thus, there can be no compromise.

 

[Foxfyre]

Perhaps you'll describe the middle ground in all this and enlighten us as to how none of us are in it?

Compromise necessitates that each side gives a little to the other in order to get most of what they want. Inherent in that is that each side must have something to give to the other

The anti-gun crowd has nothing to give to the pro-gun side.

Thus, there can be no compromise.

Well compromise and the middle ground aren't necessarily the same thing.

For me the middle ground is denying weapons to those who have demonstrated a propensity for using them illegally or irresponsibly; allowing responsible people whatever they want for whatever reason as long as the firearms can be used responsibly.

One 'pole' seems to want to deny responsible people all firearms or certain firearms and pretend that irresponsible people don't exist.

One 'pole' seems to want to allow all people whatever firearms they want and pretend that irresponsible people don't exist.

The gray area for me is my own sense of security should a weapon be used irresonsibly. I can be just as injured from a single shot 22 caliber used irresponsibly or maliciously as I will be from somebody with a high caliber 30 clip semi automatic weapon. But when it comes to defending myself or those I care about from somebody intent on doing violence to us, I don't give a flying fig what kind of weapon is used to stop them.

At the same time, I would be nervous if my neighbor who has a propensity for getting drunk and disorderly on Saturday nights should have an armed Bradley tank or 105 recoiless rifle in his back yard.
So I too have reservations about certain weapons that cannot be used safely or responsibly in a populated area but am torn on just where you draw the line on that. Or whether a line should be drawn.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well compromise and the middle ground aren't necessarily the same thing.

For me the middle ground is denying weapons to those who have demonstrated a propensity for using them illegally or irresponsibly; allowing responsible people whatever they want for whatever reason as long as the firearms can be used responsibly.

I have no issue with this.
But, this is rarely all the farther the anti-gun side wants to go.

 

[HUGGY]

I have been converted, years of common sense conservative and republican thought have won me over. I am saved. But I will need help as I transition a mind lost so long in liberalism. So please correct any lingering liberal ideas as I reform myself.

I now believe: Freedom is all you need and government should leave us alone. The Federal deficit started in 2009. Unions and teachers are the fault of our educational woes. Fannie and Freddie all by themselves caused the financial meltdown. The unemployed are not looking for jobs and are lazy to boot. Taxes are bad bad bad. Corporations are the best and really honest people. Global warming is a fraud made up by tree huggers. Our founding principles were perfect, Ms Bachmann showed me the way. Slavery was really kinda nice. Social Security, Medicare, and Healthcare are socialism. Minimum wage is too high and outsourcing is just great. Joe McCarthy was just one super guy. And Sarah, Glenn, and Michelle Bachmann are super patriots who really know history. Any criticism of American policy is anti American hate. Am I right so far?

So fellow conservatives, republicans, tea partyers, and righties, what have I missed? Help me see more of the light.

If you look directly into the light you will go blind!

 

[midcan5]

As one watches Egypt, and the battle for a liberal democracy, one has to wonder what would have been the consequences if the Egyptian people possessed the guns that exist in America? Can one even imagine the slaughter and needless death? Thankfully we do not have to consider, but we can look back to our own sixties and the lack of rights Blacks lived with so long and imagine just a bit. The Detroit Riots of 1967: Events

==== Retraction to 'I have seen the light' =====

Darn, I tired, but an old woman told me how her husband had lost his pension due to corporate corruption, and how his failing health had then bankrupted them. The story she told was repeated by others who had lost much, but thanked FDR for Social Security which allowed them a decent living. And then a child born into poverty tugged at my sleeve, and asked what she had done wrong? Sorry conservatives, I just can't join your corporate clan, history came back to me, and all the failures of republicans stood open, while the attempts to help all Americans from the likes of FDR, Truman, LBJ stood lots brighter for this brief second we exist on this grain of sand in this humongous universe. I forgot too war, and the war machine that so many republican praise, but an Iraqi women brought back the perils of interfering in another nation only because of fear and hubris. Imagine picking up your child in pieces. And the American family I met, a soldier's mom who cries every day for what could have been. How many wrongs make right. Children who will never know....

"I was praying all the way there.

I never thought a day would come when it was the women of the family, who would be safer on the roads. All the men are potential terrorists it seems, and are therefore to be cut down on sight. This is the logic of today, is it not? To kill evil before it even has a chance to take root.

When we got there, we were given his remains. And remains they were. From the waist down was all they could give us. “We identified him by the cell phone in his pants’ pocket. If you want the rest, you will just have to look for yourselves. We don’t know what he looks like.”

Now begins a horror that surpasses anything I could have possibly envisioned. We were led away, and before long a foul stench clogged my nose and I retched. With no more warning we came to a clearing that was probably an inside garden at one time; all round it were patios and rooms with large-pane windows to catch the evening breeze Baghdad is renowned for. But now it had become a slaughterhouse, only instead of cattle, all around were human bodies. On this side; complete bodies; on that side halves; and EVERYWHERE body parts." McClatchy blog: Inside Iraq


"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. George Orwell

 

[zeitgeist2012]

Since Wilson the Repubs have continued with the same global progressive agenda when in majority this is why we have unconstitutional trade treaties, and open border policies that has decimated our business, families, and the Republic overall....

I do not see this destuctive pattern changing one iota while either of the so-called two party members have a firm grasp on the minds and spirit of the American people.... Education may help if enough can be reached in time before open rebellion takes place here...the AZ shooter is a microcosm of our future if our gov't remains on its destructive course.... We have millions of anti-Americans who have flooded across our open borders bankrupting our communities, gov't and social programs, infiltrating our gov't, institutions (secular and religious) and communities causing cultural conflict, subversion of the family by progressive gov't policy and practices promted through media, gov't run educational programs, counselling and policing agencies, corruption of our young, and old through subterfuge, mental health diagnoses, and incarceration (mental and penal) of the unemployed on a mass scale stripping millions of Americans of their rights and freedoms.... The list goes on....

 

[Foxfyre]

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids Each Year | momlogic.com

Only 500?
Given that there are 300,000,000 gun in the US, that's pretty good.

And the vast majority of those 500 gun accidents were a stray bullet that was intended for somebody else hitting a kid. In other words the accidents happen in the process of the shooter doing something illegal. And banning certain guns would not likely be much of a deterrant to somebody like that.

I recently heard a speaker from a violent inner city ghetto describing how she and her children sat on the floor to eat their dinner during a gang incident lest a stray bullet come through the window. I can't imagine living like that but too many people do. Taking guns away from the law abiding won't correct it either.