How Obama could get the gop to make the tax code more progressive

[Uncensored2008]

[
Bingo. That's exactly why he can't do it. I think Rubio tepidly supported something like the OP, but its really the guys like Paul Ryan who'd agree to more progressivity for lower rates across the board. There's no way the dems will aim for more progressivity when, as a campaign issue, they want to run on the "gop's the party of the 1%."

He NEEDS to do this.

Look, you democrats have been working to destroy the middle class for decades, time to take off the gloves and let America know that a vote for a democrat is a vote for a tiny elite ruling a vast underclass. Obama and Hillary need to make it clear that the public is to obey their leaders and stop this nonsense about trying to move up the economic ladder. The DNC will not allow it, where you are born is the top position of the economic scale you will reach. The glorious vision of the left, a vast underclass at the absolute mercy of the ruling elite. Call if Feudalism, or Marxism, or Obamunism - it's all the same, a tiny elite controlling all resources - your rulers will decide your needs and meet them as they choose.

 

[bendog]

I dunno. The rich did a hell of a lot better, and the rest of us a hell of a lot worse, when Slick left and W came in.

But, the heart of the OP is the policy thinking of a few in the gop, and it's opposed by the Kochs, Adelsons, Melon-Scafides, etc. It's really a take on Reaganomics, with the tax code being simplified and more transparent, and not using expenditures to favor one behavior over another .... but this time shooting most of the benefit to the middle class.

 

[jillian]

Idiocy

 

[jillian]

I dunno. The rich did a hell of a lot better, and the rest of us a hell of a lot worse, when Slick left and W came in.

But, the heart of the OP is the policy thinking of a few in the gop, and it's opposed by the Kochs, Adelsons, Melon-Scafides, etc. It's really a take on Reaganomics, with the tax code being simplified and more transparent, and not using expenditures to favor one behavior over another .... but this time shooting most of the benefit to the middle class.

I don't know who"slick" is. But the middle class didn't do so well when baby bush crashed the economy.

 

[g5000]

Maybe. It would be political suicide normally for a dem to say end the mortgage income deduction, but Obama has no more elections to run. And, possibly even if it was capped at a $300,000 mortgage, we'd still see some benefit.

How Obama could hijack tax reform TheHill

However, as Schumer predicted in 2004 or 5, if the Dems focus on the bottom 25%, rather than the middle 50%, they will lose.

A minor nit: It's mortgage interest deduction, not mortgage income deduction.

 

[bendog]

I dunno. The rich did a hell of a lot better, and the rest of us a hell of a lot worse, when Slick left and W came in.

But, the heart of the OP is the policy thinking of a few in the gop, and it's opposed by the Kochs, Adelsons, Melon-Scafides, etc. It's really a take on Reaganomics, with the tax code being simplified and more transparent, and not using expenditures to favor one behavior over another .... but this time shooting most of the benefit to the middle class.

I don't know who"slick" is. But the middle class didn't do so well when baby bush crashed the economy.

Slick is as in Slick Bill Clinton.

 

[g5000]

Maybe. It would be political suicide normally for a dem to say end the mortgage income deduction, but Obama has no more elections to run. And, possibly even if it was capped at a $300,000 mortgage, we'd still see some benefit.

How Obama could hijack tax reform TheHill

However, as Schumer predicted in 2004 or 5, if the Dems focus on the bottom 25%, rather than the middle 50%, they will lose.

So I would lose my deduction for my state/local taxes, which since I live in NYC are pretty substantial, would be capped on my 401k deduction, and would lose out on any incentive whatsoever on buying a house.

I make $111k a year, but in NYC that hardly puts me in the 1%.

This plan can go pound sand.

The mortgage interest deduction is stupid on many levels. You are participating in your own robbery.

First, it is a highly regressive deduction. The more income you have, the bigger the mortgage you are given, which means you get a bigger deduction. And you have to be wealthy enough to afford a mortgage to begin with to be awarded the deduction.

Second, the deduction is factored into the price of housing, so houses are more expensive than they would be without the deduction. So think for a moment who are the real beneficiaries of the deduction if it drives up the cost of a house. The winners are the real estate brokers and builders. Thus, the mortgage interest deduction is a legislative wealth transference to those people, not to homeowners. You get stuck with a bigger mortgage, they get a bigger commission check.

Third, in those countries which have eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, home ownership rates were unchanged.

Fourth, every deduction is paid for out of someone else's pocket in the same way an Obamaphone is. Except the mortgage interest deduction is an annual $484 billion transfer of wealth into the pockets of real estate brokers and home builders, at the expense of higher tax rates for everyone. The Lifeline program is a drop in the bucket next to that.


And that, boys and girls, is why home builder associations and real estate broker lobbyists dump so much cash into the campaign coffers of politicians to keep the deduction alive.

You are being completely and utterly bamboozled. Anyone who supports the mortgage interest deduction is saying, "Yes, please keep stealing from me so real estate brokers and home builders can be made richer at my expense."

 

[g5000]

Think about it, folks.

$484 billion a year. If you have a $484 billion a year deduction, and the price of houses is $484 billion higher than they would be without the deduction, then whose pocket is that money ending up in?

Not yours.

It's going to brokers, banks, and home builders.

It's a massive wealth transference scheme coming out of YOUR pocket in the form of higher tax rates. THIS is what causes the unnatural concentration of wealth. The field is being tilted legislatively.

This is why the "tax the rich more" bullshit scheme of the Left won't work. That simplistic crap treats the symptoms rather than the disease.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Maybe. It would be political suicide normally for a dem to say end the mortgage income deduction, but Obama has no more elections to run. And, possibly even if it was capped at a $300,000 mortgage, we'd still see some benefit.

How Obama could hijack tax reform TheHill

However, as Schumer predicted in 2004 or 5, if the Dems focus on the bottom 25%, rather than the middle 50%, they will lose.

So I would lose my deduction for my state/local taxes, which since I live in NYC are pretty substantial, would be capped on my 401k deduction, and would lose out on any incentive whatsoever on buying a house.

I make $111k a year, but in NYC that hardly puts me in the 1%.

This plan can go pound sand.

The mortgage interest deduction is stupid on many levels. You are participating in your own robbery.

First, it is a highly regressive deduction. The more income you have, the bigger the mortgage you are given, which means you get a bigger deduction. And you have to be wealthy enough to afford a mortgage to begin with to be awarded the deduction.

Second, the deduction is factored into the price of housing, so houses are more expensive than they would be without the deduction. So think for a moment who are the real beneficiaries of the deduction if it drives up the cost of a house. The winners are the real estate brokers and builders. Thus, the mortgage interest deduction is a legislative wealth transference to those people, not to homeowners. You get stuck with a bigger mortgage, they get a bigger commission check.

Third, in those countries which have eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, home ownership rates were unchanged.

Fourth, every deduction is paid for out of someone else's pocket in the same way an Obamaphone is. Except the mortgage interest deduction is an annual $484 billion transfer of wealth into the pockets of real estate brokers and home builders, at the expense of higher tax rates for everyone. The Lifeline program is a drop in the bucket next to that.


And that, boys and girls, is why home builder associations and real estate broker lobbyists dump so much cash into the campaign coffers of politicians to keep the deduction alive.

You are being completely and utterly bamboozled. Anyone who supports the mortgage interest deduction is saying, "Yes, please keep stealing from me so real estate brokers and home builders can be made richer at my expense."

I'm still paying the builder and broker on a house that was build in 1977?

Wow

The things I learn at USMB

 

[g5000]

In the 2012 election cycle, the real estate industry contributed more than $153 million to candidates, committees and outside money groups -- its highest total ever. That mark followed a relatively quiet showing of $68.5 million in the 2010 midterm elections.

NAR has advocated for expanding criteria to make it easier for qualified individuals to obtain credit, and it has argued that increasing lending will help stem the tide of homes being foreclosed. The trade association also hopes to leave unchanged current mortgage interest deduction policies that allow itemizing taxpayers to deduct interest on their mortgages, and it has pushed for other provisions friendly to real estate interests in tax reform efforts.

Real Estate Background OpenSecrets

 

[g5000]

Maybe. It would be political suicide normally for a dem to say end the mortgage income deduction, but Obama has no more elections to run. And, possibly even if it was capped at a $300,000 mortgage, we'd still see some benefit.

How Obama could hijack tax reform TheHill

However, as Schumer predicted in 2004 or 5, if the Dems focus on the bottom 25%, rather than the middle 50%, they will lose.

So I would lose my deduction for my state/local taxes, which since I live in NYC are pretty substantial, would be capped on my 401k deduction, and would lose out on any incentive whatsoever on buying a house.

I make $111k a year, but in NYC that hardly puts me in the 1%.

This plan can go pound sand.

The mortgage interest deduction is stupid on many levels. You are participating in your own robbery.

First, it is a highly regressive deduction. The more income you have, the bigger the mortgage you are given, which means you get a bigger deduction. And you have to be wealthy enough to afford a mortgage to begin with to be awarded the deduction.

Second, the deduction is factored into the price of housing, so houses are more expensive than they would be without the deduction. So think for a moment who are the real beneficiaries of the deduction if it drives up the cost of a house. The winners are the real estate brokers and builders. Thus, the mortgage interest deduction is a legislative wealth transference to those people, not to homeowners. You get stuck with a bigger mortgage, they get a bigger commission check.

Third, in those countries which have eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, home ownership rates were unchanged.

Fourth, every deduction is paid for out of someone else's pocket in the same way an Obamaphone is. Except the mortgage interest deduction is an annual $484 billion transfer of wealth into the pockets of real estate brokers and home builders, at the expense of higher tax rates for everyone. The Lifeline program is a drop in the bucket next to that.


And that, boys and girls, is why home builder associations and real estate broker lobbyists dump so much cash into the campaign coffers of politicians to keep the deduction alive.

You are being completely and utterly bamboozled. Anyone who supports the mortgage interest deduction is saying, "Yes, please keep stealing from me so real estate brokers and home builders can be made richer at my expense."

I'm still paying the builder and broker on a house that was build in 1977?

Wow

The things I learn at USMB

You paid more for that house than you would have if the mortgage interest deduction did not exist.

I am glad to have helped increase your knowledge.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Maybe. It would be political suicide normally for a dem to say end the mortgage income deduction, but Obama has no more elections to run. And, possibly even if it was capped at a $300,000 mortgage, we'd still see some benefit.

How Obama could hijack tax reform TheHill

However, as Schumer predicted in 2004 or 5, if the Dems focus on the bottom 25%, rather than the middle 50%, they will lose.

So I would lose my deduction for my state/local taxes, which since I live in NYC are pretty substantial, would be capped on my 401k deduction, and would lose out on any incentive whatsoever on buying a house.

I make $111k a year, but in NYC that hardly puts me in the 1%.

This plan can go pound sand.

The mortgage interest deduction is stupid on many levels. You are participating in your own robbery.

First, it is a highly regressive deduction. The more income you have, the bigger the mortgage you are given, which means you get a bigger deduction. And you have to be wealthy enough to afford a mortgage to begin with to be awarded the deduction.

Second, the deduction is factored into the price of housing, so houses are more expensive than they would be without the deduction. So think for a moment who are the real beneficiaries of the deduction if it drives up the cost of a house. The winners are the real estate brokers and builders. Thus, the mortgage interest deduction is a legislative wealth transference to those people, not to homeowners. You get stuck with a bigger mortgage, they get a bigger commission check.

Third, in those countries which have eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, home ownership rates were unchanged.

Fourth, every deduction is paid for out of someone else's pocket in the same way an Obamaphone is. Except the mortgage interest deduction is an annual $484 billion transfer of wealth into the pockets of real estate brokers and home builders, at the expense of higher tax rates for everyone. The Lifeline program is a drop in the bucket next to that.


And that, boys and girls, is why home builder associations and real estate broker lobbyists dump so much cash into the campaign coffers of politicians to keep the deduction alive.

You are being completely and utterly bamboozled. Anyone who supports the mortgage interest deduction is saying, "Yes, please keep stealing from me so real estate brokers and home builders can be made richer at my expense."

I'm still paying the builder and broker on a house that was build in 1977?

Wow

The things I learn at USMB

You paid more for that house than you would have if the mortgage interest deduction did not exist.

I am glad to have helped increase your knowledge.

I agree with you on that. I also think the best way to cause another real estate collapse is to eliminate the deduction. Maybe a 10 year phase out might be a better approach

 

[g5000]

Why Now's the Time to Kill the Mortgage Interest Deduction

Proponents of the deduction argue that it's a key component to keeping home prices up.

Do you hear that? An open admission the deduction drives up the cost of housing!

As much as homebuilders argue that eliminating the deduction would hurt them, economists agree that the biggest impact would be on the highest-priced homes, with more reasonably priced real estate seeing little or no impact from getting rid of the deduction.

Homebuilders whining about losing their government tit.


Tax deductions, credits, and exemptions are all government transference of wealth paid for by higher tax rates and deficit spending. What conservative in their right mind could possible support this insanity?

They are also government attempts at mass behavioral control.

It is way past time to dump them once and for all.

 

[g5000]

Maybe. It would be political suicide normally for a dem to say end the mortgage income deduction, but Obama has no more elections to run. And, possibly even if it was capped at a $300,000 mortgage, we'd still see some benefit.

How Obama could hijack tax reform TheHill

However, as Schumer predicted in 2004 or 5, if the Dems focus on the bottom 25%, rather than the middle 50%, they will lose.

So I would lose my deduction for my state/local taxes, which since I live in NYC are pretty substantial, would be capped on my 401k deduction, and would lose out on any incentive whatsoever on buying a house.

I make $111k a year, but in NYC that hardly puts me in the 1%.

This plan can go pound sand.

The mortgage interest deduction is stupid on many levels. You are participating in your own robbery.

First, it is a highly regressive deduction. The more income you have, the bigger the mortgage you are given, which means you get a bigger deduction. And you have to be wealthy enough to afford a mortgage to begin with to be awarded the deduction.

Second, the deduction is factored into the price of housing, so houses are more expensive than they would be without the deduction. So think for a moment who are the real beneficiaries of the deduction if it drives up the cost of a house. The winners are the real estate brokers and builders. Thus, the mortgage interest deduction is a legislative wealth transference to those people, not to homeowners. You get stuck with a bigger mortgage, they get a bigger commission check.

Third, in those countries which have eliminated the mortgage interest deduction, home ownership rates were unchanged.

Fourth, every deduction is paid for out of someone else's pocket in the same way an Obamaphone is. Except the mortgage interest deduction is an annual $484 billion transfer of wealth into the pockets of real estate brokers and home builders, at the expense of higher tax rates for everyone. The Lifeline program is a drop in the bucket next to that.


And that, boys and girls, is why home builder associations and real estate broker lobbyists dump so much cash into the campaign coffers of politicians to keep the deduction alive.

You are being completely and utterly bamboozled. Anyone who supports the mortgage interest deduction is saying, "Yes, please keep stealing from me so real estate brokers and home builders can be made richer at my expense."

I'm still paying the builder and broker on a house that was build in 1977?

Wow

The things I learn at USMB

You paid more for that house than you would have if the mortgage interest deduction did not exist.

I am glad to have helped increase your knowledge.

I agree with you on that. I also think the best way to cause another real estate collapse is to eliminate the deduction. Maybe a 10 year phase out might be a better approach

Any time a government tit is taken away, the beneficiaries are going to feel some pain.

A 10-year phase out would be fine. The average mortgage rolls over every 8 years.

 

[g5000]

Before 1986, all interest for all loans used to be tax deductible. Credit cards, auto loans, etc.

Reagan put a stop to that in 1986, except he left the MID in place.

It's time for that one to go, too.

 

[g5000]

As for the topic, if you want the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction to have a snowball's chance in hell, put Obama's imprimatur on the idea.

Fuck that. He is the absolute LAST person I want proposing this. The piss drinking tard demographic of the GOP would reflexively oppose it.

This needs to come from the Right. The elimination of tax expenditures is a conservative principle. Reagan started the process. His work has been completely undone since then. Someone with balls needs to pick up the torch and finish the job.

 

[bendog]

As for the topic, if you want the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction to have a snowball's chance in hell, put Obama's imprimatur on the idea.

Fuck that. He is the absolute LAST person I want proposing this. The piss drinking tard demographic of the GOP would reflexively oppose it.

This needs to come from the Right. The elimination of tax expenditures is a conservative principle. Reagan started the process, someone with balls needs to finish it.

Don't worry he won't. He should so long as the net effect is something like those making 300k see and increase in total taxes, no change for those making 300-150, and a reduction for the rest of us. But, Hillary will speak on the issue of income disparity during the campaign.

 

[jillian]

I dunno. The rich did a hell of a lot better, and the rest of us a hell of a lot worse, when Slick left and W came in.

But, the heart of the OP is the policy thinking of a few in the gop, and it's opposed by the Kochs, Adelsons, Melon-Scafides, etc. It's really a take on Reaganomics, with the tax code being simplified and more transparent, and not using expenditures to favor one behavior over another .... but this time shooting most of the benefit to the middle class.

I don't know who"slick" is. But the middle class didn't do so well when baby bush crashed the economy.

Slick is as in Slick Bill Clinton.

I guess slick is better than alzheimers-ridden or dumb as toast

 

[jillian]

As for the topic, if you want the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction to have a snowball's chance in hell, put Obama's imprimatur on the idea.

Fuck that. He is the absolute LAST person I want proposing this. The piss drinking tard demographic of the GOP would reflexively oppose it.

This needs to come from the Right. The elimination of tax expenditures is a conservative principle. Reagan started the process. His work has been completely undone since then. Someone with balls needs to pick up the torch and finish the job.

no one is going to do it. politicians avail themselves of the tax credit.

why do you hate middle-class homeowners?

 

[g5000]

As for the topic, if you want the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction to have a snowball's chance in hell, put Obama's imprimatur on the idea.

Fuck that. He is the absolute LAST person I want proposing this. The piss drinking tard demographic of the GOP would reflexively oppose it.

This needs to come from the Right. The elimination of tax expenditures is a conservative principle. Reagan started the process. His work has been completely undone since then. Someone with balls needs to pick up the torch and finish the job.

no one is going to do it. politicians avail themselves of the tax credit.

why do you hate middle-class homeowners?

No one is going to do it because politicians rely on the campaign cash the special interests put in their coffers for keeping all those exemptions, deductions, and credits alive.

That's why the House has a 98 percent re-election rate for incumbents who run for re-election, and over 80 percent in the Senate.

The American Politboro.

Eliminating the MID, along with all other tax expenditures, would allow for a large reduction in tax rates, and it would lower the price of homes. You have to be smoking government-sponsored crack to think that is hateful toward the middle class.