How many nuke plants are you willing to build to power the electric cars?

Discussion in 'Environment' started by Baruch Menachem, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    The electric car runs on batteries recharged off the regular power grid.

    In order to charge all those cars overnight, it might require quite a lot of beefing up of the power grid.


    Then there is the source of electric. It won't be hydro. Hydro is being taken down, not built up these days.

    The real practical choices are coal (very very dirty, worse than petroleum) or natural gas (we got plenty, but its offshore. ) or nukes.


    I personally think Thorium nukes are a good plan. They don't require the infrastructure of Uranium nukes. And we can practically mass produce them to fit a communities' needs, rather than having massive centralized plants.

    Anyway, what are your choices for power. Wind and Solar are not yet ready for prime time, and solar won't work at night when the cars need charging.

    Or maybe petroleum isn't such a bad deal after all
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  2. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Petroleum is not a good deal at all.

    The thorium nukes, when developed, look like a good deal. Especially as they are truly fail safe. Wind is already big time, but it will only handle a percentage of the needed power. The new technology being developed in large scale battery storage will help. The answer is simply pretty much all of the above. Nuclear, failsafe only, wind, solar, geothermal, wave, and slow current. Hydro is pretty much already developed. Coal is simply too dirty, both in standard pollution and GHGs. Natural gas is better, but still produces GHGs.

    Conservation of the energy we have will play a big part. From lighting to the appliances we use, we can be more efficient, get more bang per kwh.
     
  3. Douger
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    Douger BANNED

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    Night ? My batteries are charged. Need to charge your car ? c'mon by.
     
  4. skookerasbil
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    skookerasbil Gold Member

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    Green energy is a total joke.........destroys jobs.......destroys economic growth. Liberals talk about green energy but NEVER want to make a comparison to conventional energy. Why? Because when they do........they get blown to shit!!!

    From todays CBSNews "Money Watch" ( not the Heratige Foundation!!!:D:D)


    March 13, 2012
    The great green energy hoax
    By Steve Tobak .

    (MoneyWatch)

    In the business world, when you combine bad management, faulty science and fanatical ideology, it's a recipe for disaster. Strangely enough, when the federal government does it, the result is the same.


    I'm referring to the national green energy policy that is actually costing us jobs, hurting our economy and increasing our dependence on foreign oil -- all at a time when we can least afford it. It may even be having an indirect effect on rising gas prices.

    Sadly, you didn't have to be Nostradamus to know that force-feeding an initiative this big against free market forces would end badly. In fact, the renewable energy bubble was evident years ago. Back in 2008, CNET ran an article entitled "The alternative energy bubble," where today's situation was indeed foretold:


    "What do you get when you mix Al Gore, global warming, whacky environmentalists, skyrocketing oil prices, lots of venture funding, and irrational exuberance? An alternative-energy bubble. "What, you don't believe there's an alternative-energy bubble? Then you're just not paying attention. All the signs are there. As bubbles go, I think this one's going to be big. How big? You got me. But I think that global warming, alternative energy -- and solar energy in particular -- like Al Gore, are all overblown."

    Yes, I wrote that, and we all know that I'm no medieval seer with an omniscient ability to predict the future. I just pay attention and understand fundamental business concepts like supply and demand and risk management. I also have built-in radar for anything that sounds remotely like fanatical ideology.

    10 signs that going green is just a fad
    Greentech pastures not so green


    Now, that article and others like it were written before our economy melted down. So clearly, the administration saw the renewable energy push as a sort of stimulus. In hindsight, however, it's now evident that not only didn't it work, it's actually had the opposite effect. Here are some examples of how our green energy policy has negatively impacted the jobs picture and our economy.


    The solar meltdown

    Over the past few years we've watched the entire solar industry implode in agonizing slow motion. One solar company after another -- Evergreen (ESLR), Solyndra, Abound, and others -- bit the dust amid weak demand, a glut of low-cost panels from China and swirling controversy over ill-conceived government loans that have cost taxpayers billions.

    Even First Solar (FSLR), America's biggest solar panel maker and the recipient of $3 billion in government loan guarantees, finds itself in big trouble. The company fired its CEO late last year and recently announced a disastrous quarter as news of its panels failing in dessert climates sent an already depressed share price plummeting to multi-year lows.

    The electric car fad

    Look, I'm just going to come right out and say it: the whole electric car thing is nothing but a crazy fad that makes no logical sense. The Chevy Volt is an expensive mess that nobody's buying and can barely get you to work and back on a charge. And now, the federal government, which already subsidized the GM (GM) car's development, wants to hand you another $10,000 of taxpayer money just to get you to buy one.

    And don't even get me started on government loan guarantees made to electric automakers Tesla and Fisker so the latter can make a $100,000 electric sports car in Finland. And just last week, Consumer Reports paid $107,850 for a brand new Fisker Karma that broke down during the check-in process and could not be restarted for an actual road test, "the first time in memory that's happened," according to the publication. You can't make this stuff up.

    The real jobs boom: Oil and gas

    This is where the story gets out-of-control ridiculous. There's an energy jobs boom going on in America, but it's in oil and gas, not green energy. According to a Bureau of Labor Statistics report, oil and gas production now accounts for 440,000 jobs, an increase of 80 percent since 2003.

    It's even plausible to suggest that, with new technology and production methods, if you combine coal, natural gas, off-shore oil drilling and shale oil deposits, we could not only put our unemployed back to work, we can also end our dependence on foreign oil. And that, in turn, would stabilize gas prices at the pump.

    And that can all be funded privately, with no Energy Department loan guarantees. If only the federal government would just can its political agenda, quit kowtowing to lobbyists and environmentalists, put the American people first and get the heck out of the way.

    Don't get me wrong; I love green energy. And if the government wants to get involved, I have no problem with it funding some core research, building infrastructure and creating some shovel-ready jobs. But when it comes to funding individual companies, let private industry do its job. And when it comes to energy, our economy and our jobs, let the market decide.

    Back in 2008, I wrote, "You don't want to end up like Icarus, who got a little too exuberant and flew too close to the sun. Wings melt, bubbles burst -- same result." Been there, done that; let's try something else.


    The great green energy hoax - CBS News




    winning..................


    Libeeral energy idea's are nothing but a fantasy. Always have been..........always will be.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  5. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    A one year growth of 89%. But solar is dying? Third quarter growth for last year of almost 40%. That is the sign of a weak industry?

    Yes, there is an ongoing shakeout within the industry. One that will continue because of the rapidly changing technology. But the product is being snapped up and used at an increasing rate worldwide.

    Barring someone actually developing Cold Fusion, solar will continue to grow very rapidly for at least a generation.


    U.S. Solar Installations Continuing to Increase | Solar-New-Jersey.org

    Early indications are that 2011 will be the strongest year ever for solar installations, although not quite as strong as most people believed. For the third quarter of 2011, solar installations in the U.S. were approximately 449.2 megawatts which was an increase of almost 40% over the prior quarter, 324.3 megawatts, according to Solar Energy Industries Association and research firm GTM Research. That means that the total for the first three quarters in 2011 exceeded the entire total of installed solar in 2010.

    The reason for this has been that the due to a global over-supply of solar panels, which has hurt solar manufacturers but been a boon to installers and the consumer. In addition, the installed has also decreased as a result of a decline non-module costs such as installation labor, marketing, overhead, and inverters. In fact, these costs have declined by roughly 18 percent from 2009 to 2010.

    The strength of the increase in solar installations was in the utility-scale market with 23 projects accounting for more than 200 MW of the quarter’s total — a 325 percent increase from the second quarter. In addition, solar installations in the residential market increased 21%, although smaller commercial scale installations declined by almost 25% due to changes in state incentives in top U.S. solar markets including California, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

    With respect to the market and the market, sustained boom periods have over-saturated those markets with enough solar capacity such that state utilities have met their mandates for renewable energy production, ultimately lowering the value of state incentives.

    As a result of weakness in the commercial solar market, SEIA revised its 2011 installation forecast downward to 1.7 GW from 1.8 GW which would still represent year over year growth of approximately 89%.

    As for 2012, the U.S. solar market is expected to continue to grow but will face several serious challenges from dwindling state incentives, expiration of a key federal subsidy that allows developers to received cash for up to 30% of the cost of a new solar installation, and continued influx of cheaper Chinese-made solar panels.
     
  6. night
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    night Rookie

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    I think people should just try to do more of wind energy. The pressure Obama is putting on renewable energy technology research will help alot.
     
  7. night
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    night Rookie

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    Many of the countries that do have green energy are among the richest in the world. Denmark, Norway, Iceland. Why should we not do it just to get cheap energy?

     
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  8. percysunshine
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    percysunshine Gold Member

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    'How many nuke plants are you willing to build to power the electric cars?'


    On a BTU basis, transporting chemical stored energy to the point of use in a moving demand source is more efficient, less costly, and less polluting than using wires.

    Physics sucks...deal with it.
     
  9. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I have no problem with nuclear plants. They are long overdue

    I'd like to see most electric car users install their own solar to charge their cars. You can either store the charge in batteries or sell the solar power to the grid and buy it back at night when it is cheaper
     
  10. RollingThunder
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    RollingThunder VIP Member

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    What a load of silly nonsense. Petroleum is a very bad deal for many reasons. such as dwindling supplies, constantly rising prices, air and water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions driving climate changes.

    Your opinions about solar and wind are absurd and very stupid. Solar and wind power technologies are constantly improving and are already capable of meeting our energy needs if we build the capacity. Vastly improved batteries are moving into production and will allow energy storage on a scale that solves the intermittency problems.

    You ask: "How many nuke plants are you willing to build to power the electric cars?"

    The answer is 'none'. We don't need them. We may end up using some nuke plants of some kind but we actually can get all the energy we need from the sun, the wind and the ocean.
     

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