Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Annie, Aug 16, 2006.
Nice article. I think most anti-Semites are simply jealous because Jews are probably the smartest group of people on the planet. Smarter than them. :huh:
My God, what a bunch of garbage -
There we have it, if you aren't supportive of the Zionist movement you just as well may be an anti-semite. Its "irrelevant"? Wow, I cannot believe someone would write this crap. Its "irrelevant" that maybe we should look at the historical facts concerning the formation of the state of Israel by the U.N. on land taken from Arabs? NOTHING could be more RELEVANT to the shit that is going on today in the ME.
But hey, lets just ignore all the facts, nod our heads in vigorous agreement and send large portions of our paychecks off to Israel so they can continue to live their pipe dream. And hell, when push comes to shove lets even send our troops to defend Israel. Because you know, the fate of the world hangs in the balance. I don't know how all the democracies of the world managed to survive before 1948, but now all of a sudden all democracy and freedom depends on Israel's pipe dream.
Give me a fucking break.
Ohhh yea, next thing you know we'll be sympathetic to Jihadists killing innocent Americans just because we have the same "goals". What a croc of shit.
I highly doubt there are tons of people that "hate the Jews". But I am sure there are more and more that will get pissed off at the Zionist Jews that expect us to fund their pipe dream without question. What else do you expect when you rob people of their own money straight out of their paychecks? If its such a sympathetic and moral cause why not rely on charity donations? Zionism has nothing to do with America's basic freedoms that need to be defended by our federal government, and its a travesty that our lawmakers simply nod their heads and send our tax money to this hopeless and idiotic cause every year.
I'll tell you what Hawk, you don't mince words, and I for one appreciate that.
I'm confused when it comes to the Jews, and the state of Israel, I didn't do well in my "middle east studies", and you don't seem confused at all to all the rhetoric coming out these days, for that I thank you.
It appears, at least to me, that things will only become MORE confused in the days ahead.
Keep a clear head Hawk, and also, keep an open mind.
I do keep an open mind.
But let me clarify my opinions on the subject of Israel and Zionism.
I personally have nothing against the idea of zionism, that being the idea of a group of people (whether it be Jews, Christians, Muslims, communists...) forming their own country so a large community of people that share the same beliefs can live under the laws they prefer in peace.
What I do have a problem with is the fact that nobody seems to want to admit that maybe it was perhaps a mistake to grant the particular land in question to Israel. We could also debate the legality of the UN giving the land to Israel in 1948, but that really isn't the point. It doesn't matter if it was 'legal' or 'illegal', what does matter is people are still willing to fight for it. If the Arabs of that area and the Jews both want to fight over the land, fine. I have no problem with two groups of people fighting over land. Its been done countless times throughout history, it is how countries are made.
What kills me is that many people on this board claim to be conservative, or at the very least "fiscal conservatives". But Neocon or Lib, it seems like most people have lost sight of what being fiscally conservative means. Liberal-socialists may argue that more federal tax money should be spent on education, or health care. Conservatives argue it should be taxed on a local level or paid through private organizations. I think most conservatives would argue that federal taxes should only fund the most basic needs to run the country.
For example - Tax the citizens to fund our military to protect us from foreign threats. Tax the citizens to fund offices of the government(Congress, ect.) Tax people to fund the Judicial branch(courts, prisons ect). Libs might want to tax us for more things, such as health care, education, ect ect. But that is all a moot point. I could live with Liberals in power overtaxing us for such things, because at least that money would be used for our own citizens. I may not agree that taxing through the federal government is the most efficient way, and I will vote against it the next election, but I can at least live with it. But taxing us to fund a foreign goverment's military? Notice above I stated "Tax the citizens to fund our military"....."our military", not another country's. Where is it in our Constitution that allows us to be taxed soley to fund foreign governments?
Now I don't have a problem with our Federal government providing temporary aid to another country. Tsunami? Fine, give some relief if it saves lives. But funding a country's military year after year, decade after decade with billions of taxpayer dollars? All without a peep of a debate? One Third of all of our foreign aid goes to Israel. We literally hand them billions of our tax dollars every year as "aid". Then on top of that we give them federal loans and make the American taxpayer pay the interest! Hot damn, wouldn't you guys love it if someone else paid the interest on your home mortgage loan? Well thats exactly what the Israelis get, all at our expense.
And where are all the "fiscal conservative" politicans at? They're in congress every year with the same old 'nod the head and sign the check' mindset that has become so routine no one even bothers to ask the American taxpayer if they wish for their money to be sent to this cause. Its all just assumed every American believes in Israel's "Right to Exist", and somehow the "right to exist" has been translated into "the right to tax you for Zionism". I believe the Sudan has a "right to exist", why aren't I being taxed to fund their military?
Is it too much to just ask to have your voice heard? Is it too much to have a say in where our tax dollars are spent? If the vast majority of Americans want their tax dollars to go to this cause, thats great, all I am asking is they give us the choice.
Hawk I understand your point of view as you laid it out in the last paragraph, but Im confused on something, it is your assertion that the only reason terrorism exists is due to the support Israel gets from us and the fact that the UN gave them a few hundred square miles to live on?
Fact is, OBL declared jihad on the US because we dared set foot on Arab soil. Had absolutely NOTHING to do with Israel, so we'd be targets of Islamic terrorism with or without Israel.
I think its a little of both, their religion has made them so racist and truely intolerant they could not stand the idea of whiteboys in Saudi Arabia. But there has always been alot of hatred toward America due to our blind support of Israel.
That being said I would still not say that the above two reasons are the only reasons for terror attacks. The West has been on a collision course with the Islamic world and now it is happening. The time has come for the West to face Islam on the battlefield. In order to win this war we will need to do some very ugly things, because this truely is the toughest enemy we have ever faced.
Let me correct you a bit. Wahabbism is the Islamic sect in Saudia Arabia. It was born out of fear of the Shia. It teaches hatred for the West, and US in particular, without attaching us to Israel.
OBL stated that because we set foot in Saudi Arabia, THAT is the reason he declared jihad against the US. He at least has not dishonestly tried to tie it to Israel.
As far as your last statement goes, I find it rather ironic that it is indeed Israel who is willing to do the "ugly" things, and we are not.
I think Israel has become a convenient excuse for Islamic hatred of the West, afterall it's the one thing many Muslims concur with.
But I think anyone who says we are headed for World War III if we dont' stop Iran is 100% correct. So Israel is a rather moot point in the grand scheme of things.
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