How can a natural born citizen's status be "governed" by great britain?

[Toro]

My understanding is that the US does not recognize dual nationality, but many places do.

Someone born in the US is a US Citizen.

.

You are correct the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. Obama is at best a U.S. Citizen but not a Natural Born Citizen which is the Constitutional requirement to be President. He is not eligible.

please prove that the US does not recognize dual citizenship.

The United States does recognize dual citizenship. I'm a Canadian and my son is a dual American/Canadian citizen. My cousins were both born to a Canadian mother in the United States and are dual citizens. My neighbor across the street is a Canadian who received his American citizenship last year.

This is the sort of thing that makes "birthers" appear to be not very smart.

Questions and answers on dual US/other citizenship

 

[Toro]

You are correct the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. Obama is at best a U.S. Citizen but not a Natural Born Citizen which is the Constitutional requirement to be President. He is not eligible.

please prove that the US does not recognize dual citizenship.

The US does not recognize dual citizens to be President of the United States. Its in the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the United States Constitution:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Notice it doesn't say dual citizen?

There are three citizenship types:
Natural born citizen
Native born citizen
Naturalized citizen

Obama...
1...is not a "natural born" citizen because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject, as was Obama, "at birth."

2...is a "native born" citizen because his mother was an American and he was born in Hawaii.

3...is a "citizen" because his mother was an American and he was born in Hawaii.

You all are refusing to accept the reality of the distinction. Obama's own website refers to him as a "native born" citizen and even has a statement describing his dual "at birth" citizenship.

It's right there -- look:
Fight the Smears: The Truth About Barack?s Birth Certificate


See: Right there where it says, "The Truth About Barack's Birth Certificate" -- "The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a "native citizen of the United States of America."

If you cursor down the page, Obama's citizenship status is described:

"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Think people. He does not meet the Natural Born Requirement.

In all due respect, but did you do any research on this issue before you posted this subject? Because if you had, you would know a very basic fact that the United States does indeed recognize dual citizenship.

But I thought US law didn't permit one to be a dual citizen -- that if you were (by birth or otherwise), you either had to give up the other citizenship when you came of age, or else you'd lose your US status. And that if you became a citizen of another country, you'd automatically lose your US citizenship. So what's all this talk about dual citizenship?

It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both). However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down by the US Supreme Court in two cases: a 1967 decision, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second ruling in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas.

Questions and answers on dual US/other citizenship

Here are the rulings.

Court rulings on dual citizenship
Court rulings on dual citizenship
Court rulings on dual citizenship
Court rulings on dual citizenship
Court rulings on dual citizenship

 

[jillian]

My understanding is that the US does not recognize dual nationality, but many places do.

Someone born in the US is a US Citizen.

.

You are correct the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. Obama is at best a U.S. Citizen but not a Natural Born Citizen which is the Constitutional requirement to be President. He is not eligible.

But he was born in Hawaii which means he is 'natural born'.

Edit: Ohhhh, I see what you're saying now. Oops. That does seem to make him ineligible. Damn.... I had always assumed the 'birther' thing was about him being born in Kenya. Hmmm. This appears not to be the case.

Ummm... try again. Hawaii became a state in 1959. The president was born in 1961

They're birthers... by definition, they're liars

The Aloha State
(Official Popular Name) This official "Popular Name" was designated in 1959 by the Legislature of the State. This was adopted in the same year in which Hawaii became a state.

The State of Hawaii - An Introduction to the Aloha State from NETSTATE.COM

 

[US Army Retired]

His father's nationality is irrelevant to the discussion unless at 18 or after Obama declined his US citizenship for a British one, something he did NOT DO.

.

How do you know this??

 

[RetiredGySgt]

His father's nationality is irrelevant to the discussion unless at 18 or after Obama declined his US citizenship for a British one, something he did NOT DO.

.

How do you know this??

Fine, you are making the claim, PROVE he declined his US Citizenship for a British one. How do I know? Common sense.

 

[US Army Retired]

His father's nationality is irrelevant to the discussion unless at 18 or after Obama declined his US citizenship for a British one, something he did NOT DO.

.

How do you know this??

Fine, you are making the claim, PROVE he declined his US Citizenship for a British one. How do I know? Common sense.

Common sense is what you're lacking Gunny. Think!!! He didn't have to decline his US Citizenship for a British one because he is both, a dual citizen. Great Britain, being a sovereign nation, has the same right as does the United States to pass such citizenship laws. Now let us examine the British law that applies to Obama and his father and which makes Obama a British citizen not only at the time of his birth in 1961 but still today.

The British Nationality Act of 1948 provides in pertinent part as follows:

"4. Subject to the provisions of this section, every person born within the United Kingdom and Colonies after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth:

Provided that a person shall not be such a citizen by virtue of this section if at the time of his birth—
(a) his father possesses such immunity from suit and legal process as is accorded to an envoy of a foreign sovereign power accredited to His Majesty, and is not a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies; or
(b) his father is an enemy alien and the birth occurs in a place then under occupation by the enemy.

5.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth ...."

Under the British Nationality Act of 1948, Obama's father became a British citizen under Section 4 by being born on the soil of an English Colony, Kenya. Under Section 5, when Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii or some other place, he automatically became a British citizen by descent from his father who was a British citizen under Section 4.

Obama has deflected attention to his British citizenship by focusing the public’s attention on his former Kenyan citizenship. Notwithstanding what Obama may lead the public to believe, this British citizenship is not a type of citizenship that he has since lost. Moreover, this citizenship did not expire with Obama's 21st birthday nor is it one that had to be registered in any specified period of time.

Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that: “1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963…2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya. [sic] is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall. [sic] if his father becomes. [sic] . . . a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subjection (1). [sic] become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December. [sic] 1963.” These provisions made Obama’s father and Obama citizens of Kenya, respectively. But neither Kenya’s independence from Great Britain nor the Kenyan Constitution caused Obama to lose his British citizenship with which he was born. Obama concedes that his citizenship converted from British to Kenyan but he adds that he then lost this Kenyan citizenship when he did not confirm it upon reaching the age of 21. There are no known statements from either Obama or his campaign contending that he eventually lost his British citizenship. Rather, the statements have been that his British citizenship converted to Kenyan citizenship when Kenya obtained its independence from Great Britain in 1963 and that he then lost Kenyan citizenship under the Kenyan constitution and laws when he did not renounce U.S. citizenship at age 21. But since Obama never lost his British citizenship, it does not matter that Obama may have lost his Kenyan citizenship as he contends.

Let us now see how Obama did not lose his British citizenship. The Kenyan Constitution which came into effect in 1963 at Article 97 provides the following:

"97. Dual citizenship

1. A person who, upon the attainment of the age of twenty-one years, is a citizen of Kenya and also a citizen of some country other than Kenya shall, subject to subsection (7), cease to be a citizen of Kenya upon the specified date unless he has renounced his citizenship of that other country, taken the oath of allegiance and, in the case of a person who was born outside Kenya made and registered such declaration of his intentions concerning residence as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament."

Hence, while the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults, it allows dual citizenship for children. Kenya’s Constitution does, however, specify that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possess citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship, swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya, and in the case of a person who was born outside Kenya made and registered such declaration of his intentions concerning residence as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament. It may be true that Obama did not take any action to preserve his Kenyan citizenship as was required by the Kenyan constitution. But there is no evidence that Obama ever renounced his British citizenship which he originally acquired at his birth under Section 5 of the British Nationality Act of 1948. Whatever his father may have done regarding his Kenyan and/or British citizenship did not affect Obama’s British citizenship with which Obama was born. Hence, under the Kenyan Constitution, Obama presumably lost his Kenyan citizenship by not renouncing his U.S. (assuming he was born in the U.S.) and British citizenships, by not taking an oath of allegiance to Kenya, and by not registering his declaration to take up residence in Kenya. But under British law, he did not lose his British citizenship because he never renounced that citizenship.

The fact that Obama still has British citizenship is further supported by the following:

"Under United Kingdom law as it has been since the British Nationality Act, 1948, the acquisition of another nationality by a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies, of whatever age, makes no difference whatever to his status as a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies, and, therefore, he remains a British subject.

Moreover, it is not possible, under United Kingdom law, for the nationality of a child who is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies to be changed by the decision of his parents. Only the child, when he reaches the age of 21, can renounce his citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies if he is then in possession of another nationality, but during the child's minority neither the child nor his parents can do anything to forfeit his birthright of British nationality."

Read more: A Place to Ask Questions To Get the Right Answers: Obama, the President of the U.S., Is Currently Also a British Citizen

 

[jillian]

Try again. What you're posting is untrue.

 

[Ravi]

I'm offended that someone that claims to be a retired Army member would spread such stupidity.

 

[jillian]

seems to be something new.

 

[SFC Ollie]

please prove that the US does not recognize dual citizenship.

The US does not recognize dual citizens to be President of the United States. Its in the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the United States Constitution:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Notice it doesn't say dual citizen?

There are three citizenship types:
Natural born citizen
Native born citizen
Naturalized citizen

Obama...
1...is not a "natural born" citizen because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject, as was Obama, "at birth."

2...is a "native born" citizen because his mother was an American and he was born in Hawaii.

3...is a "citizen" because his mother was an American and he was born in Hawaii.

You all are refusing to accept the reality of the distinction. Obama's own website refers to him as a "native born" citizen and even has a statement describing his dual "at birth" citizenship.

It's right there -- look:
Fight the Smears: The Truth About Barack?s Birth Certificate


See: Right there where it says, "The Truth About Barack's Birth Certificate" -- "The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a "native citizen of the United States of America."

If you cursor down the page, Obama's citizenship status is described:

"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Think people. He does not meet the Natural Born Requirement.

what says the state department concerning dual citizenship?

US State Department Services Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.
Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.
However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.
Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

and you could look up the name Tomoya Kawakita to find out about dual citizenship.

so what is all this "the US does not recognize dual citizenship"?

Very good, I was going to look this up. My youngest son was born to a German mother while i was on active duty in Germany. he has a register of Birth abroad giving him American citizenship. He has a US Passport. But he lives in Germany where he was almost drafted by the German military (he failed the physical) and he carries a German passport as well. He is a dual citizen.

 

[US Army Retired]

The US does not recognize dual citizens to be President of the United States. Its in the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the United States Constitution:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Notice it doesn't say dual citizen?

There are three citizenship types:
Natural born citizen
Native born citizen
Naturalized citizen

Obama...
1...is not a "natural born" citizen because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject, as was Obama, "at birth."

2...is a "native born" citizen because his mother was an American and he was born in Hawaii.

3...is a "citizen" because his mother was an American and he was born in Hawaii.

You all are refusing to accept the reality of the distinction. Obama's own website refers to him as a "native born" citizen and even has a statement describing his dual "at birth" citizenship.

It's right there -- look:
Fight the Smears: The Truth About Barack?s Birth Certificate


See: Right there where it says, "The Truth About Barack's Birth Certificate" -- "The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a "native citizen of the United States of America."

If you cursor down the page, Obama's citizenship status is described:

"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Think people. He does not meet the Natural Born Requirement.

what says the state department concerning dual citizenship?

US State Department Services Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.
Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.
However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.
Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

and you could look up the name Tomoya Kawakita to find out about dual citizenship.

so what is all this "the US does not recognize dual citizenship"?

Very good, I was going to look this up. My youngest son was born to a German mother while i was on active duty in Germany. he has a register of Birth abroad giving him American citizenship. He has a US Passport. But he lives in Germany where he was almost drafted by the German military (he failed the physical) and he carries a German passport as well. He is a dual citizen.

What I am talking about is you can be a dual citizen in the US but you can't be the President. You have to be born of two US parents born on US soil to be President. That is why the constitution is unique in defining what kind of person should be President.

Obama is not a ‘natural born citizen’ because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject. To be a natural born citizen, a person’s parents must BOTH be citizens of the United States of America. Further, that person must be born in the United States.”

 

[candycorn]

President Obama

 

[jillian]

Third time and let's see if the birther acknowledges.

Hawaii became a state in 1959.

Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961

poor poor birthers.

 

[Againsheila]

Look he was born in Hawaii, a US STATE at the time, to an American Citizen Mother, he is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Unless you believe that the Republican Governor and LT. Governor are covering for him.

British law and acts applied to whether Obama could be considered a British Citizen. The way Dual citizenship works in the States is the child decides at 18 if the Parents do nothing before that date.

Obama's dad was a British subject, Obama would be recognized by the Brits as British.

Which does not invalidate his NATURAL BORN US CITIZENSHIP STATUS unless he chooses at 18 to become a British Subject. He did not do so.

No, he chose to be an Indonesian citizen and traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport, after the age of majority.

He also claims to be a "citizen of the world".

 

[Againsheila]

what says the state department concerning dual citizenship?

US State Department Services Dual Nationality


and you could look up the name Tomoya Kawakita to find out about dual citizenship.

so what is all this "the US does not recognize dual citizenship"?

Very good, I was going to look this up. My youngest son was born to a German mother while i was on active duty in Germany. he has a register of Birth abroad giving him American citizenship. He has a US Passport. But he lives in Germany where he was almost drafted by the German military (he failed the physical) and he carries a German passport as well. He is a dual citizen.

What I am talking about is you can be a dual citizen in the US but you can't be the President. You have to be born of two US parents born on US soil to be President. That is why the constitution is unique in defining what kind of person should be President.

Obama is not a ‘natural born citizen’ because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject. To be a natural born citizen, a person’s parents must BOTH be citizens of the United States of America. Further, that person must be born in the United States.”

You'll note that according to your chart, McCain can't be president either since he wasn't born in the US Mainland.

 

[jillian]

AQnd yet we know that's a lie, too, since if you are serving overseas, your children aren't divested of their citizenship.

 

[Againsheila]

AQnd yet we know that's a lie, too, since if you are serving overseas, your children aren't divested of their citizenship.

Difference between being a citizen and being a "natural born" citizen.

Being born overseas I can never run for president, nor can my brother, which made it very interesting when McCain did it. If the reps had gotten a decent candidate that actually qualified, they might have demanded Obama actually prove he was a native born citizen and we wouldn't have this problem now.

The dems and the reps, the two most corrupt parties in the history of our nation.

 

[candycorn]

Third time and let's see if the birther acknowledges.

Hawaii became a state in 1959.

Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961

poor poor birthers.

In sports parlance, you just scored on a slam dunk in the face of your opponent.

 

[jillian]

AQnd yet we know that's a lie, too, since if you are serving overseas, your children aren't divested of their citizenship.

Difference between being a citizen and being a "natural born" citizen.

Being born overseas I can never run for president, nor can my brother, which made it very interesting when McCain did it. If the reps had gotten a decent candidate that actually qualified, they might have demanded Obama actually prove he was a native born citizen and we wouldn't have this problem now.

The dems and the reps, the two most corrupt parties in the history of our nation.

you're confusing natural born with naturalized.

mccain was and is a natural born citizen.

if you were born overseas to someone in the military who was stationed where you were born, you are a citizen.

i don't know what else the circumstances of your birth were.

and obama DID prove he's a citizen.

the birthers are like the everready bunny... they keep going..and going.. and going.. and going...

oh...and mccain would have one, imo, had the economy not tanked and had he not picked palin as his VP.

 

[jillian]

Third time and let's see if the birther acknowledges.

Hawaii became a state in 1959.

Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961

poor poor birthers.

In sports parlance, you just scored on a slam dunk in the face of your opponent.

thanks. I've always wanted to slam dunk a basketball!