Have The Rules Changed?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Annie, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    It's a given that Goldberg is not the favorite of most self-defined liberals, so ignore that he's the author, feel free to disagree with his inferences that he sets up. Instead, what about the main thesis? Are we in a period of a new political/economic paradigm?

    Townhall - Jonah Goldberg - When Did the Rules Change? - Full Article

     
  2. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Jonah Goldberg? Self-Defined Liberal? What?

    The article sucked, it offered no real reasoning as to why the political climate has changed. Liberalism did seem poised for a comeback in 2008. Problem? Turns out the people who were running on such a platform weren't that Liberal in the first place. Turns out the people who were voting for bills and had a majority were not even Liberal for the most part but had no spine. What has happened since 2008 is a good example to anyone watching about how it's not about Liberalism or Conservativism. It's not about Democrats or Republicans. It's about Corporatism.

    Federal Lobbying Climbs in 2009 as Lawmakers Execute Aggressive Congressional Agenda - OpenSecrets Blog | OpenSecrets

    It doesn't take a genius to realize that we the American people have been outfoxed by the Corporations this round.

    And I find it amazing to this very day that people allow themselves to be led around like sheep on certain issues as if either party cares. The Democrats had the Congress and Presidency, did this pass Gay Marriage? No. Did they end the War on Drugs? No. The Republicans had Congress, the Supreme Court, AND The Presidency. Did they ban Abortion? No. Did they ban all of these things they want to ban today? No.

    Both parties know if anything of actual value got done, then they would no longer be able to control people by having them hope that they will be the ones to do ___.

    I haven't been around long in the background that is politics, but it doesn't take a genius to see that. And it doesn't take a partisan talking head like Jonah Goldberg who does nothing but profit off the continued divide to tell anyone that either.
     
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  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I disagree, not with what you see or that you disagree with his ideas, I stated that up front. I do think it likely that we are in one of those paradigm moments though-which of course is unknown until completed. Unlike some more modest change times, we won't know except in hindsight.

    Now did it begin with 9/11 or with 2008 economic collapse or with the elections? Perhaps 2000 elections? Dunno.

    Will our country still be a democracy 10 years from now? Under the same parameters? Will there be an overthrow of the government? Will the government dominate to degrees we cannot fathom today?
     
  4. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    No we're not. And here's why:

    2000: Conservatives is on the ropes, George W. Bush wins

    2004: Liberalism is on the ropes now, Bush wins again.

    2008: Liberalism is on the ropes, Obama wins.

    2010: Liberalism is on the ropes, GOP probably takes back the House.

    Don't you realize it has to do with the Corporations which also happen to control the media? We each go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Bush was no Conservative, Obama is no Liberal. Yet, we are told they are such. We are told to believe as such at times from places like Fox News or CNN or whichever.

    Government will not dominate overly for one of the last first things you said. They don't want to be overthrown. They'll push people to their point perhaps, but they won't go over. Sure, some people may try to overthrow in the long run, but they'll be put down faster than Old Yeller.

    No, what you're looking at in 10 years is a Democracy that people no longer really control. All laws from the bottom up are decided in the backroom, with the American People still trying to get their foot in the door. Though the better question is in the last 110 years if it ever wasn't like that.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Willfully or not, we are not discussing the same thing. It isn't about Bush or Obama, Democrat/liberal or Republican/conservative or Libertarian or Green. IMO, truth is those labels may have already become meaningless.

    In your last paragraph you ask one question that is relevant, my answer is 'no', it hasn't been the same for 100 years. Doesn't mean those in power wouldn't have liked the same, but they didn't have the amount of power over the people. Not through taxes, legislation, arms of enforcement, etc.

    Question for me is have we reached or are reaching some unsustainable threshold that will result in drastic change? Violent? Peaceful? Again, I dunno.
     
  6. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    No, we haven't reached a threshold. Once the Republicans take back the house, eventually groups like the tea party will disappear satisfied as their leaders have told them mission accomplished. Then all this talk about fiscal responsibility, etc will disappear.

    And sure they had the amount of people over power through legislation. Arms of enforcement and taxes are not the way they control.

    Here's one good example:

    Legal history of cannabis in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Why is Marijuana Illegal? - Drug WarRant

    Misinformation and abundant amounts of information are what we are dealing with today. A mix of 1984 and A Brave New World.
     
  7. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Time will tell, but then again regarding the tea parties I believe you were one of those who said they'd be gone more than a year ago, instead they just keep rolling along and gaining steam.

    In all honesty, I'm really clueless to outcome, I recognize my own tendencies to see what I wish or fear.
     
  8. mudwhistle
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    mudwhistle Diamond Member

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    A failure to listen to the people is what has changed the political climate.

    One expensive program after another. One power-grab after another. Forget how much it costs or whom you have to bribe....full speed ahead.
     
  9. Modbert
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    I don't believe I said they'd be gone yet. Once a election or two passes, they will be gone though. Much like the movement in the 90's. Political Movements such as these start off as anger usually fall one way or another or never get off the ground.
     
  10. boedicca
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    boedicca Uppity Water Nymph Supporting Member

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