Happy Birthday, Israel!

[patrickcaturday]

MJB:
At least try to get your facts right !!! According to Wiki and other sites the ancient kingdom of Israel was founded around 1200 BC, so unless my math is wrong that places a gap of approximatly 3200 years between then and now. Not as you claim over 4000 years. Also in my opinion the time period should be conciderably shorter than that as there were long periods of time during that 3200 year period that the kingdom of Israel did not exist, the latest one being between 70 AD and 1948 AD.

Next time try researching the subject before you open your mouth

Israel has been occupied for long periods of time, however, no indigenous nation except for the Jewish nation has ever been established in Israel for the past 3000 years.

Your history lesson for the day.

This is

You could not teach any sort of history !!!
Your use of the term " indiginous nation also shows that you have little command of either historical or anthropological language. The proto-canaanites ( the first of the canaanite peoples ) established permanant agricultural settlements in the Levant ( the historical name of which Israel is a part of ) around 6200 BC and there were thriving city states ( Jerico, and others ) existed around 3200 BC. Also around 1400 BC the KING of hazor swore loyalty to the Egyptian New Kingdom. City States especially in the ancient times were considered to be nations in and of themselves. However in many cases theses soverign nations formed loose confederations in order to pursue comon goals such as defence and trade. Canaanite civilization at the coming of Abraham ( approximatly 800 years before the birth of Israel ) was one of these loose confederations. It was bound togeather by a common language, a common culture and probably in this case most importantly strong trade associations.

Mr. Stone, the reason that research is worth the effort is that if you do it you don't look like a fool when you open your mouth !!!

 

[JStone]

MJB:
At least try to get your facts right !!! According to Wiki and other sites the ancient kingdom of Israel was founded around 1200 BC, so unless my math is wrong that places a gap of approximatly 3200 years between then and now. Not as you claim over 4000 years. Also in my opinion the time period should be conciderably shorter than that as there were long periods of time during that 3200 year period that the kingdom of Israel did not exist, the latest one being between 70 AD and 1948 AD.

Next time try researching the subject before you open your mouth

Israel has been occupied for long periods of time, however, no indigenous nation except for the Jewish nation has ever been established in Israel for the past 3000 years.

Your history lesson for the day.

This is

You could not teach any sort of history !!!
Your use of the term " indiginous nation also shows that you have little command of either historical or anthropological language. The proto-canaanites ( the first of the canaanite peoples ) established permanant agricultural settlements in the Levant ( the historical name of which Israel is a part of ) around 6200 BC and there were thriving city states ( Jerico, and others ) existed around 3200 BC. Also around 1400 BC the KING of hazor swore loyalty to the Egyptian New Kingdom. City States especially in the ancient times were considered to be nations in and of themselves. However in many cases theses soverign nations formed loose confederations in order to pursue comon goals such as defence and trade. Canaanite civilization at the coming of Abraham ( approximatly 800 years before the birth of Israel ) was one of these loose confederations. It was bound togeather by a common language, a common culture and probably in this case most importantly strong trade associations.

Mr. Stone, the reason that research is worth the effort is that if you do it you don't look like a fool when you open your mouth !!!

You post much unintelligible gibberish. History, not so much.

Jews are the only indigenous nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years.

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
http://books.simonandschuster.com/Middle-East/Bernard-Lewis/9780684832807

 

[patrickcaturday]

Israel has been occupied for long periods of time, however, no indigenous nation except for the Jewish nation has ever been established in Israel for the past 3000 years.

Your history lesson for the day.

This is

You could not teach any sort of history !!!
Your use of the term " indiginous nation also shows that you have little command of either historical or anthropological language. The proto-canaanites ( the first of the canaanite peoples ) established permanant agricultural settlements in the Levant ( the historical name of which Israel is a part of ) around 6200 BC and there were thriving city states ( Jerico, and others ) existed around 3200 BC. Also around 1400 BC the KING of hazor swore loyalty to the Egyptian New Kingdom. City States especially in the ancient times were considered to be nations in and of themselves. However in many cases theses soverign nations formed loose confederations in order to pursue comon goals such as defence and trade. Canaanite civilization at the coming of Abraham ( approximatly 800 years before the birth of Israel ) was one of these loose confederations. It was bound togeather by a common language, a common culture and probably in this case most importantly strong trade associations.

Mr. Stone, the reason that research is worth the effort is that if you do it you don't look like a fool when you open your mouth !!!

You post much unintelligible gibberish. History, not so much.

Jews are the only indigenous nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years.

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
Middle East | Book by Bernard Lewis - Simon & Schuster

The above quote highlighted in dark red proves that my quote in blue is correct. I know you were not trying to do that but if you don't read your own sources sometims that happens. Please use the dictionary and try to understand what the word indiginous means, if you like I will pull it up for you !!! To say that the Jews are the only indiginous nation ever to exist in Israel is simply wrong !!!

 

[JStone]

You post much unintelligible gibberish. History, not so much.

Jews are the only indigenous nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years.

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The above quote highlighted in dark red proves that my quote in blue is correct. I know you were not trying to do that but if you don't read your own sources sometims that happens. Please use the dictionary and try to understand what the word indiginous means, if you like I will pull it up for you !!! To say that the Jews are the only indiginous nation ever to exist in Israel is simply wrong !!!

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"

American Library Association

"For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
Oxford University Press: Search Results

Bernard Lewis...

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
Middle East | Book by Bernard Lewis - Simon & Schuster

 

[patrickcaturday]

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
Middle East | Book by Bernard Lewis - Simon & Schuster

[/QUOTE]

The part of your quote above ( highlighted in dark red above ), please reconcile it with the quote you made earlier seen below;

Mr. Stone says;

Jews are the only indigenous nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years.

The two quotes are in obvious disagreement, so who is right you or your expert Dr. Lewis ?
Also I would ask you to give us your definition of indiginous ?

 

[JStone]

The part of your quote above ( highlighted in dark red above ), please reconcile it with the quote you made earlier seen below;

Mr. Stone says;

Jews are the only indigenous nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years.

The two quotes are in obvious disagreement, so who is right you or your expert Dr. Lewis ?
Also I would ask you to give us your definition of indiginous ?

You lost the debate. No other indigenous nation except the Jewish nation has ever been established in Israel over the past 3000 years. The ancient Israelites emerged from Canaanite society based on the consensus of archaeologists and scholars.

Canaanites for the most part relocated to Carthage where they eventually becamse extinct as a group. The Romans destroyed Carthage in the Punic Wars.

Now, walk away.

 

[JStone]

Warren Buffett...

We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve. Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world. It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that. They feel good about societies that are on the move.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]


Israeli Cancer Vaccine In Tests
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhEwj6Ue13s]Vaxil BioTherapeutic - YouTube[/ame]

 

[patrickcaturday]

Stone;5210317You lost the debate. No other indigenous nation except the Jewish nation has ever been established in Israel over the past 3000 years. The ancient Israelites emerged from Canaanite society based on the consensus of archaeologists and scholars.

Canaanites for the most part relocated to Carthage where they eventually becamse extinct as a group. The Romans destroyed Carthage in the Punic Wars.

Now, walk away.

Mr. Stone;

I have read your playbook and your statements " You lost the debate. " and " Now, walk away " are your pathetic attempt to actually avoid answering my questions. You do this because the only choice that you have if you answer is to admit that you are wrong !!! Of course you can attempt to divert or spam your way out of even trying to answer my questions, but you are really not fooling anyone. So either answer the questions below or admit that you can't without losing face.

1 ) Please examine the two quotes below and attempt to reconcile them ;

This quote is from Dr. Lewis
The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan

Quote: Originally Posted by JStone;5209802

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East", "The Arabs In History"

American Library Association

and your quote;

Jews are the only indigenous nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years

The two quotes are at odds with each other, they cannot be reconciled and that leads us to question number

2 ) Who is right , Dr. Lewis or you ?

3 ) Please give us some links as to the consensus that you speak of regarding the origin of the Hebrews. I have been studying this question for a while and it seems to me that there are three different schools of thought on this matter. The first school says that the Bible is actually history and the early events that are portrayed in it should be taken at face value. The second school says that the Bible was written in the 6th century BC for political and theological reasons, they sat that the anthropological record should take precedence. This school believes that the bible is myths that were used to fortify the strength of the Jews during the Babylonian Exile. There are some problems with this. An example is that the story of David was thought to be a myth but later when The Palace Of David was found it was confirmed that David was a real historical figure. The third school attempts to combine the two previous schools, an example of this is that they say that there was probably an historical Abraham but a lot of the stories about him total fiction.
From my research, and I am by no means an expert, I tend to go along with the third school in that the story of Abraham is not only in the Bible but there is a reference to his field in one of the Egyptian Texts of the time. Also there is anthropological evidence that suggests that around 2000 BC ( the time of Abraham ) there was a migration out of Mesopotamia along the northern trade route into Canaan. This is the route that the Bible states that Abraham took.
So please tell us which school do you subscribe to ?

4 ) Please give us your definition of indiginous ?

Now I have an idea that you will walk away or maybe you will run.

 

[JStone]

Warren Buffett...

We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve. Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world. It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that. They feel good about societies that are on the move.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]

Israeli Exoskeleton Company Enables Paralyzed People To Walk[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LmtN1KEguA]Israeli Exoskeleton Suit Enables Paralyzed People To Walk (All Credits are for Infolive.tv) - YouTube[/ame]