Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[initforme]

As a white old person American born citizen of this nation I can say we aren't dying off not does either party offer anything to make us passionate about them. They both have shown their disdain for average workers by catering to the wealthy. Facts are facts.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Democrats have been lying to their people for years. For the last 30 some years, they have been told us old white people are dying off and the US will become a Socialist state. Conservatism is a thing of the past.

Nicely put. And right on the money. Here is a direct quote from them on the issue.

"...the Republican Party’s coalition of older, whiter, more rural, and evangelical voters is shrinking and becoming more geographically concentrated and less important..."


https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Just as you said. A genocidal desire for whites and Christians to die off and their ideas be replaced by socialism.

The Democrats have become the anti-white party and losing elections all the time. More and more whites are coming to realize this.

They are working night and day to make us a minority in this country for the first time in our history. They believe if accomplished, we would be a one-party nation forever.

Most of the people who adore socialism have never experienced it before. They never lifted a finger to leave this country and move somewhere where it's the norm. It sounds good when they read about it, but not realizing that money runs out quickly. If you pay a garbage man as much as your doctor, don't expect many people to become doctors in the future.

 

[initforme]

Ray as a white old person I don't see attacks on white people. I do see a plutocracy coming though. Corporate power is running amok. They hate working people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ray as a white old person I don't see attacks on white people. I do see a plutocracy coming though. Corporate power is running amok. They hate working people.

Then you better open your eyes a little wider.

Why do you think they are so hell bent on saving their Sanctuary Cities; so to the point they are even willing to shut down the government over it?

Why do you suppose they are so hell bent on stopping the southern wall from going up? Much of our opioid products are coming through that southern border killing over 60,000 Americans every year; mostly young Americans. And the Democrats........they could care less. They would rather try to stop law abiding Americans from getting guns!!!

Why do you think they stopped Kate's Law? Kate's Law would have given any illegal five years minimum prison sentence if they were a felon, deported, and came back to this country. The Democrats froze that in the Senate. It could have been law today.

Everything they do when it comes to immigration points that they want immigrants from other countries here. They don't care about American jobs, they don't care about American culture, they don't care about American lives, as long as they bring in as many immigrants as they can.

 

[2aguy]

Ray as a white old person I don't see attacks on white people. I do see a plutocracy coming though. Corporate power is running amok. They hate working people.

Then you better open your eyes a little wider.

Why do you think they are so hell bent on saving their Sanctuary Cities; so to the point they are even willing to shut down the government over it?

Why do you suppose they are so hell bent on stopping the southern wall from going up? Much of our opioid products are coming through that southern border killing over 60,000 Americans every year; mostly young Americans. And the Democrats........they could care less. They would rather try to stop law abiding Americans from getting guns!!!

Why do you think they stopped Kate's Law? Kate's Law would have given any illegal five years minimum prison sentence if they were a felon, deported, and came back to this country. The Democrats froze that in the Senate. It could have been law today.

Everything they do when it comes to immigration points that they want immigrants from other countries here. They don't care about American jobs, they don't care about American culture, they don't care about American lives, as long as they bring in as many immigrants as they can.

Power.....and they know that Americans will vote against them...so they are importing a new slave class to give them power over everyone else...

 

[initforme]

I see some I your points and agree to a point but I would never lift a finger to fight it because I have alot more pressing matters to take care of. If you add to your list the over influence of corporate heads you have even more to look at.

 

[mikegriffith1]

You have one side that fixates on one set of inanimate objects--guns--and ignores or minimizes more important factors. You have another side that refuses to support even modest, reasonable gun control measures, such as raising the minimum age for riles to 21, mandating state reporting to NICS, and universal background checks. Most Americans are between these two extremes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I see some I your points and agree to a point but I would never lift a finger to fight it because I have alot more pressing matters to take care of. If you add to your list the over influence of corporate heads you have even more to look at.

Corporations are not going to destroy this country--Democrats are. If they ever do get to the point of total power, kiss your right to arm yourself goodbye. We will then be on a non-stop path to Communism.

Correct, you and I won't be here to experience it, but our family before us gave up a lot so we could have a better life, and it's up to us to do the same for our grandchildren. I'm not worried about me. I'll be off this planet. But I do worry about my niece and nephew and their children.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have one side that fixates on one set of inanimate objects--guns--and ignores or minimizes more important factors. You have another side that refuses to support even modest, reasonable gun control measures, such as raising the minimum age for riles to 21, mandating state reporting to NICS, and universal background checks. Most Americans are between these two extremes.

Do you really believe that if we had a law that stops people under the age of 21 from getting rifles, it will make any difference in murders or mass murders?

There was a 17 year old kid today that took a gun to school and tried to kill people. He only shot two, but one is in stable condition and the other on her death bed. What stopped him? A good guy with a gun; just like we've been preaching all along. Did he get his gun from a licensed seller? Did he go through a background check???

Notice none of the anti-gunners came back today to continue this conversation. Can you blame them?

So let's say we had this age limit on rifles. Let's even say we had a law against high cap magazines, do you really think the anti-gunners would be satisfied with the last two school shootings? Of course not. They would be (and probably will now) insisting on even more restrictions and more restrictions.

 

[initforme]

I don't worry about my kids or grandkids as today's young people are smarter, more hard working, and more productive for low wages that we've seen.

 

[mikegriffith1]

You have one side that fixates on one set of inanimate objects--guns--and ignores or minimizes more important factors. You have another side that refuses to support even modest, reasonable gun control measures, such as raising the minimum age for riles to 21, mandating state reporting to NICS, and universal background checks. Most Americans are between these two extremes.

Do you really believe that if we had a law that stops people under the age of 21 from getting rifles, it will make any difference in murders or mass murders?

There was a 17 year old kid today that took a gun to school and tried to kill people. He only shot two, but one is in stable condition and the other on her death bed. What stopped him? A good guy with a gun; just like we've been preaching all along. Did he get his gun from a licensed seller? Did he go through a background check???

Notice none of the anti-gunners came back today to continue this conversation. Can you blame them?

So let's say we had this age limit on rifles. Let's even say we had a law against high cap magazines, do you really think the anti-gunners would be satisfied with the last two school shootings? Of course not. They would be (and probably will now) insisting on even more restrictions and more restrictions.

A rifle minimum age of 21 most likely would have stopped Nikolas Cruz from getting a rifle, since it's unlikely that he would have known how to get one illegally.

I agree with arming teachers and a nationwide concealed carry.

 

[initforme]

Give those armed teachers a good sized bonus as incentive..5 grand perhaps.

 

[sealybobo]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Fact remains psychopaths can get wmds in America and all you gun nuts who are free to conceal carry never take these psychos out.

In Vegas how you gonna stop that?

Hell, where were all the ccw carriers at that gop softball game

And you don’t allow guns at the republican convention. Why?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have one side that fixates on one set of inanimate objects--guns--and ignores or minimizes more important factors. You have another side that refuses to support even modest, reasonable gun control measures, such as raising the minimum age for riles to 21, mandating state reporting to NICS, and universal background checks. Most Americans are between these two extremes.

Do you really believe that if we had a law that stops people under the age of 21 from getting rifles, it will make any difference in murders or mass murders?

There was a 17 year old kid today that took a gun to school and tried to kill people. He only shot two, but one is in stable condition and the other on her death bed. What stopped him? A good guy with a gun; just like we've been preaching all along. Did he get his gun from a licensed seller? Did he go through a background check???

Notice none of the anti-gunners came back today to continue this conversation. Can you blame them?

So let's say we had this age limit on rifles. Let's even say we had a law against high cap magazines, do you really think the anti-gunners would be satisfied with the last two school shootings? Of course not. They would be (and probably will now) insisting on even more restrictions and more restrictions.

A rifle minimum age of 21 most likely would have stopped Nikolas Cruz from getting a rifle, since it's unlikely that he would have known how to get one illegally.

I agree with arming teachers and a nationwide concealed carry.

Okay, so let's go with that:

Cruz couldn't get an AR, so he brought a semi-automatic handgun instead. They both do the same thing. It's just that one has better aim than the other. However when shooting at a crowd of people, aim doesn't make much of a difference.

Then we have the issue of age limitations on constitutional rights. If we can place an age restriction on guns, then would we be able to do the same with voting rights? I'm willing to make that trade. No voting until the age of 21 either.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Fact remains psychopaths can get wmds in America and all you gun nuts who are free to conceal carry never take these psychos out.

That's because most of these psychos carry out their plot in Gun Free Zones. We CCW holders obey the law even if we're against it.

Hell, where were all the ccw carriers at that gop softball game

They had armed security. Once again, a good guy with a gun stopped people from dying.

And you don’t allow guns at the republican convention. Why?

Where they held the convention here in Cleveland was always a gun free building. In our state, every business has the right to make their establishment a gun free zone. You simply put up a sign at all entrances of the building.

 

[initforme]

Give those armed teachers a good sized bonus as incentive..5 grand a year bonus to start. Then raise it every year.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

As a filthy moderate fence sitter I disagree. Yours is a populist, black and white point of view totally based on anecdote. Nothing wrong with it, we all do it, but understand, the accuracy is going to be a bit lacking, get my meaning?

My counter: My own mother has an increasing fear of firearms as she gets older, even though she's been exposed to them her whole life, as have I. She is as liberal as they come, yet will defend the 2nd amendment every time because she has a deep respect for it, as do I.

I learned how to shoot at 5. I currently own several firearms. I enjoy using them at the ranges and for hunt. Your opinion is noted, yet certainly far from the reality of collective society.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Whatever grinds your gears, I suppose, but fear and dislike aren't absolutely synonymous. Reality isn't black and white as you seem to allude to. Labeling stuff just for shits and giggles seems a colossal waste of time to me, IMO, but I suppose your mileage will vary. I'm a firearms owner, therefore = 'gun nut' to certain people. Okay. Yawn. I'm over it. That was easy.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

In the first paragraph, you state how some kids choose education, thus barring them from access to firearms as well as indoctrinated by 'leftist propaganda' in schools. This is a common stereotype of the right wing, if I do say so myself. But, bravo. You be you. I understand that probably most educators lean to the left, and you have a pretty deep seeded bias against that. As prudent as that may sound, it doesn't make you accurate about this issue at all. You inject your bias from the get-go, everyone can see that.

Unfortunately for your point, some of those kids choosing to attend university have parents, and some of those parents are military. Military people tend to respect firearms. Most will want to train others, including their children, how to use them properly.

In the second paragraph, you inject more anecdotal bias by stating those kids who decided to join the military are somehow superior to the eggheads that went to university because... guns? No, that would be stupid. So, I suppose I'm at a loss to exactly what you meant by that.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

WOW!!!! You met people in college that had different views than you had! When does that ever happen?!? How did you cope?

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

As an owner of firearms and an avid shooter, I will say always respect what firearms were created for. They weren't built to wound, now were they? Nope, they are weapons of destruction.

 

[protectionist]

they don't care about American lives, as long as they bring in as many immigrants as they can.

To VOTE for them.

 

[protectionist]

Give those armed teachers a good sized bonus as incentive..5 grand perhaps.

In many counties they're having trouble finding the $$, In my county they have a deficit already.

 

[protectionist]

As an owner of firearms and an avid shooter, I will say always respect what firearms were created for. They weren't built to wound, now were they? Nope, they are weapons of destruction. .

I ordinarily don't respond to posts that are as long as this, especially when they are all over the map, and appear to be feeding the ego of the poster, and don't really impress me with anything much.

I'll just answer your last sentence. Guns can be "weapons of destruction" depending on the intentions of the user. Guns can also be weapons of defense and protection. We need more of those - in schools and other places.