Gun Collecting: Is It Ever Innocent?

[Circe]

I've heard the -- bad -- argument that what a lot of people call "gun nuts" are just...collectors. Hobbyists. I have a lot of hobbies, none of them involving guns, so that got me thinking.

There are tools, and collector's items, and materials stored up to have options. Having too much yarn or spices or books is having lots of options. Collector's items are mostly historical in the case of guns or anything else, I think --- dueling pistols or flintlocks would be a reasonable collector's item even for guns. But modern functional assault rifles? Calling them collector's items is phoney.

Aren't guns really just tools? They have a function, and if you buy them for tools, you should want to use them for their purpose, but if you use an assault rifle for its purpose, you'll be arrested by a SWAT team. I garden a lot and thinking about this I realized I have ten shovels. I never "collected" them -- I just acquired them at need throughout the years. And I use all of them, every year, for their actual purpose: the go-to pointed shovel for regular digging, the light grain shovel for snow and straw-mixed light manure and black compost, the little Sears shovel as a sort of large trowel for big pots, and so on through the list.

We have guns and I view them as tools, and so I don't expect to use many!! There's the 22 for foxes and dogs in with the livestock and a shotgun and a pistol for home defense. I'm not expecting to stand off an army, who would need more?? Well, a hunter might need a more powerful rifle, but I don't hunt. I accept packages of venison shot on or near our land, and very pleased to have it, too.

My point is that if people have more guns than they can actually USE, there is something very, very weird and suspicious about that. One wonders about their motivation, and their anger level. And whether they are fantasizing arming the neighborhood when the riots or the revolution starts. It's not an innocent hobby, buying lots and lots of guns and high-capacity magazines and ammo: it's basically about wishing and hoping to kill people. Right? Is there any other motivation besides wishing for the chance to kill lots of people?

 

[Underhill]

I've heard the -- bad -- argument that what a lot of people call "gun nuts" are just...collectors. Hobbyists. I have a lot of hobbies, none of them involving guns, so that got me thinking.

There are tools, and collector's items, and materials stored up to have options. Having too much yarn or spices or books is having lots of options. Collector's items are mostly historical in the case of guns or anything else, I think --- dueling pistols or flintlocks would be a reasonable collector's item even for guns. But modern functional assault rifles? Calling them collector's items is phoney.

Aren't guns really just tools? They have a function, and if you buy them for tools, you should want to use them for their purpose, but if you use an assault rifle for its purpose, you'll be arrested by a SWAT team. I garden a lot and thinking about this I realized I have ten shovels. I never "collected" them -- I just acquired them at need throughout the years. And I use all of them, every year, for their actual purpose: the go-to pointed shovel for regular digging, the light grain shovel for snow and straw-mixed light manure and black compost, the little Sears shovel as a sort of large trowel for big pots, and so on through the list.

We have guns and I view them as tools, and so I don't expect to use many!! There's the 22 for foxes and dogs in with the livestock and a shotgun and a pistol for home defense. I'm not expecting to stand off an army, who would need more?? Well, a hunter might need a more powerful rifle, but I don't hunt. I accept packages of venison shot on or near our land, and very pleased to have it, too.

My point is that if people have more guns than they can actually USE, there is something very, very weird and suspicious about that. One wonders about their motivation, and their anger level. And whether they are fantasizing arming the neighborhood when the riots or the revolution starts. It's not an innocent hobby, buying lots and lots of guns and high-capacity magazines and ammo: it's basically about wishing and hoping to kill people. Right? Is there any other motivation besides wishing for the chance to kill lots of people?

I know a few collectors and I would say it varies.

I have one friend who I honestly believe should not own guns as he is a conspiracy nut who will end up going off the deep end one of these days. He is supposed to be medicated and isn't.

So yes, they are out there.

On the other hand, I have a couple friends who have a collection of guns and I think they are perfectly normal. They buy trap guns that are things of beauty and honestly use them, if not as their primary gun, as something to show off to friends at the range. They have a dozen hunting rifles they have used over the years and each one can lead to a story or stories.

But the difference I have noticed is intent.

The first guy is doing it because he has it in his head that someone is coming to get him (and very well may some day thanks to his insanity). He worries about it constantly. I haven't talked to him since the new gun legislation in NY, but I am sure he will never give up his multiple AR's, AK's and his 30 rounders (I think he even has a box clip for one of his guns).

The others are doing it because they've enjoyed guns all their life and feel a bond to them. Much in the way my father felt a bond to his old chevy pickup...

So both are out there. The nuts are fewer and farther between, and in fairness, most of them will never amount to anything. But there is no denying they are out there and are cause for legitimate worry. They should be cause for legitimate worry among all gun owners. Because if anyone will get guns taken away, it's these guys.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Aren't guns really just tools? They have a function, and if you buy them for tools, you should want to use them for their purpose, but if you use an assault rifle for its purpose, you'll be arrested by a SWAT team.

XXXXX
Excellent work, setting the standard so high (or, low, depending on how you want to look at it).

 

[Circe]

Here's an example of how hobbies are not always innocent.

Suppose you had a hobby of collecting bondage S&M equipment? You got your whips and your rattan canes and you've got the leatherhead zipper-mouth mask and handcuffs and footcuffs and ...so on.

So a date finds all this stuff organized neatly in a bondage safe and she .....well, for some reason she seems suspicious! I can't THINK why. And she leaves, and later when there is a rape killing in the area, you are visited by police, who have somehow found out about your interesting collection, and though you tell them it's just your COLLECTION, see, somehow they don't seem to believe you.

No, of course they don't. Because those are tools, too, and if you've got them, people assume you want to use them and may well use them, just as when you've got AR-15 rifles and lots of high-capacity magazines people assume you want to mow down as many civilians as possible.

Because that IS what these tools are for.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, of course they don't. Because those are tools, too, and if you've got them, people assume you want to use them and may well use them, just as when you've got AR-15 rifles and lots of high-capacity magazines people assume you want to mow down as many civilians as possible.
Because that IS what these tools are for.

Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.
Keep up the good work.

 

[Underhill]

No, of course they don't. Because those are tools, too, and if you've got them, people assume you want to use them and may well use them, just as when you've got AR-15 rifles and lots of high-capacity magazines people assume you want to mow down as many civilians as possible.
Because that IS what these tools are for.

Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.
Keep up the good work.

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Sure you can use it for targets and blast the shit out of whatever you like for fun. But he isn't wrong about their design.

The AR is designed to essentially be as close to the military equivalent as is possible within civilian law. Like it or not, those guns were designed to kill people. Obviously they can, and often are, used for other things. But there is no arguing with the design intentions of these kinds of weapons.

Hunting rifles are designed for hunting. Pistols for various forms of portable protection.... these things aren't really debatable. There are plenty of guns that blur the lines. But I'm reasonably sure that isn't what he is talking about.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, of course they don't. Because those are tools, too, and if you've got them, people assume you want to use them and may well use them, just as when you've got AR-15 rifles and lots of high-capacity magazines people assume you want to mow down as many civilians as possible.
Because that IS what these tools are for.

Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.
Keep up the good work.

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Personally, I compete at the state and national level with mine.

While the right to keep and bear arms is protected by the constitution because there are times where people need to kill people, firearms, in and of themselves, have no purpose other than to send a projectile at a target. Depending on the nature of the target, some firearms are better suited at this than others, but that simple fact remains.

And thus my characterization stands:
Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.

 

[Underhill]

Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.
Keep up the good work.

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Personally, I compete at the state and national level with mine.

While the right to keep and bear arms is protected by the constitution because there are times where people need to kill people, firearms, in and of themselves, have no purpose other than to send a projectile at a target. Depending on the nature of the target, some firearms are better suited at this than others, but that simple fact remains.

And thus my characterization stands:
Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.

Good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that he is right.

People may be wrong when they assume you have those weapons for nefarious purposes. I'm not arguing with that. And I doubt he would either.

But that is what they were designed for. And that is what a large number of people will think.

I don't know how many times I've heard people ask why the mother of the shooter at Sandy Hook had an AR. It just seems like an odd weapon for the mother of a mental son to have at her home.

She may have perfectly legitimate reasons for owning the gun. But it doesn't change the perception.

 

[Circe]

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Sure you can use it for targets and blast the shit out of whatever you like for fun. But he isn't wrong about their design.

The AR is designed to essentially be as close to the military equivalent as is possible within civilian law. Like it or not, those guns were designed to kill people.

Sure. That's obvious and why I said this "hobby" isn't innocent. These AR-15s are designed to kill as many people as possible, people They aren't for hunting, they aren't for target practice, they are only for killing large numbers of people in one rampage mass murder.

Some hobby.

 

[westwall]

I've heard the -- bad -- argument that what a lot of people call "gun nuts" are just...collectors. Hobbyists. I have a lot of hobbies, none of them involving guns, so that got me thinking.

There are tools, and collector's items, and materials stored up to have options. Having too much yarn or spices or books is having lots of options. Collector's items are mostly historical in the case of guns or anything else, I think --- dueling pistols or flintlocks would be a reasonable collector's item even for guns. But modern functional assault rifles? Calling them collector's items is phoney.

Aren't guns really just tools? They have a function, and if you buy them for tools, you should want to use them for their purpose, but if you use an assault rifle for its purpose, you'll be arrested by a SWAT team. I garden a lot and thinking about this I realized I have ten shovels. I never "collected" them -- I just acquired them at need throughout the years. And I use all of them, every year, for their actual purpose: the go-to pointed shovel for regular digging, the light grain shovel for snow and straw-mixed light manure and black compost, the little Sears shovel as a sort of large trowel for big pots, and so on through the list.

We have guns and I view them as tools, and so I don't expect to use many!! There's the 22 for foxes and dogs in with the livestock and a shotgun and a pistol for home defense. I'm not expecting to stand off an army, who would need more?? Well, a hunter might need a more powerful rifle, but I don't hunt. I accept packages of venison shot on or near our land, and very pleased to have it, too.

My point is that if people have more guns than they can actually USE, there is something very, very weird and suspicious about that. One wonders about their motivation, and their anger level. And whether they are fantasizing arming the neighborhood when the riots or the revolution starts. It's not an innocent hobby, buying lots and lots of guns and high-capacity magazines and ammo: it's basically about wishing and hoping to kill people. Right? Is there any other motivation besides wishing for the chance to kill lots of people?

So, Jay Leno is weird because he has way more cars than he could ever drive? People who have more teapots then they will use are weird now? How about those nefarious stamp collectors....did you know that some of those folks have hundreds of thousands of those things?

Shocking!

 

[M14 Shooter]

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Personally, I compete at the state and national level with mine.

While the right to keep and bear arms is protected by the constitution because there are times where people need to kill people, firearms, in and of themselves, have no purpose other than to send a projectile at a target. Depending on the nature of the target, some firearms are better suited at this than others, but that simple fact remains.
And thus my characterization stands:
Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.

Good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that he is right.

On the contrary - it destroys any notion that specific guns have a specific "purpose" and, especually, the notion that if you are to use a gun "correctly" you must them use it for that "purpose".

All guns have the same purpose - to fire a projectile. The rest is entirely up to the shooter.

 

[CMike]

I collect guns. That doesn't mean I collect old guns.


You can collect anything ie Ferrais, Mercedes, etc.

Just because you collect doesn't mean you can't collect new stuff.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Personally, I compete at the state and national level with mine.

While the right to keep and bear arms is protected by the constitution because there are times where people need to kill people, firearms, in and of themselves, have no purpose other than to send a projectile at a target. Depending on the nature of the target, some firearms are better suited at this than others, but that simple fact remains.

And thus my characterization stands:
Ignorance, at its purest, most primitive level.

Good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that he is right.

People may be wrong when they assume you have those weapons for nefarious purposes. I'm not arguing with that. And I doubt he would either.

But that is what they were designed for. And that is what a large number of people will think.

Those that think that are not people they are sheep.

I don't know how many times I've heard people ask why the mother of the shooter at Sandy Hook had an AR. It just seems like an odd weapon for the mother of a mental son to have at her home.

The Ar 15 .223 is no different than any other .223 that doesn't look scary. In fact the .223 is only a slightly larger round than a .22 which is actually a .222 round

So really there's not much difference between and AR 15 and a semiautomatic .22 rifle.

BTW all kids who get a rifle get a .22 as their first after a BB gun.

She may have perfectly legitimate reasons for owning the gun. But it doesn't change the perception.

It doesn't help that the perception is colored by people who refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that any AR15 available to the public is no different than any other semiautomatic rifle available to the public other than cosmetically.

The fear mongering control freaks purposely omit the simple facts I have stated above.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The fear mongering control freaks purposely omit the simple facts I have stated above.

Personally, I am happy that people like Circe are around -- their mindless, ignorant rants only make it more likely that the gun control laws they want enacted will NOT pass into law as they so brillianly illustrate the irrational and nonsensical nature of their position.

 

[CMike]

What is a AR with a 30 round clip for if not to inflict as much damage as possible?

Sure you can use it for targets and blast the shit out of whatever you like for fun. But he isn't wrong about their design.

The AR is designed to essentially be as close to the military equivalent as is possible within civilian law. Like it or not, those guns were designed to kill people.

Sure. That's obvious and why I said this "hobby" isn't innocent. These AR-15s are designed to kill as many people as possible, people They aren't for hunting, they aren't for target practice, they are only for killing large numbers of people in one rampage mass murder.

Some hobby.

They are fun to shoot.

Yanno they work the same way as rifles that aren't black.

 

[Politico]

My point is that if people have more guns than they can actually USE, there is something very, very weird and suspicious about that. One wonders about their motivation

When people are overly interested in telling others what they should be be doing there is something very weird and suspicious about that. And your motivation is not a mystery.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I've heard the -- bad -- argument that what a lot of people call "gun nuts" are just...collectors. Hobbyists. I have a lot of hobbies, none of them involving guns, so that got me thinking.

There are tools, and collector's items, and materials stored up to have options. Having too much yarn or spices or books is having lots of options. Collector's items are mostly historical in the case of guns or anything else, I think --- dueling pistols or flintlocks would be a reasonable collector's item even for guns. But modern functional assault rifles? Calling them collector's items is phoney.

Aren't guns really just tools? They have a function, and if you buy them for tools, you should want to use them for their purpose, but if you use an assault rifle for its purpose, you'll be arrested by a SWAT team. I garden a lot and thinking about this I realized I have ten shovels. I never "collected" them -- I just acquired them at need throughout the years. And I use all of them, every year, for their actual purpose: the go-to pointed shovel for regular digging, the light grain shovel for snow and straw-mixed light manure and black compost, the little Sears shovel as a sort of large trowel for big pots, and so on through the list.

We have guns and I view them as tools, and so I don't expect to use many!! There's the 22 for foxes and dogs in with the livestock and a shotgun and a pistol for home defense. I'm not expecting to stand off an army, who would need more?? Well, a hunter might need a more powerful rifle, but I don't hunt. I accept packages of venison shot on or near our land, and very pleased to have it, too.

My point is that if people have more guns than they can actually USE, there is something very, very weird and suspicious about that. One wonders about their motivation, and their anger level. And whether they are fantasizing arming the neighborhood when the riots or the revolution starts. It's not an innocent hobby, buying lots and lots of guns and high-capacity magazines and ammo: it's basically about wishing and hoping to kill people. Right? Is there any other motivation besides wishing for the chance to kill lots of people?

First let me start by saying, you don't have a Constitutional right to your shovels, however you do a right to your guns. That puts them in a different class.

That out of the way, I would say that you are verging on not upholding your responsibility under the second amendment. The second does not exist so you can get rid of pests and hunt a rabbit or a pheasant. It exists so that you, a mindful and patriotic citizen can forcibly change the government should it become tyrannical and you and sufficient of your fellow citizens decide to remove it. You should have at least one rifle that would allow you to meaningfully participate in that activity.

As far as collecting, I'm not a collector so I wouldn't pretend to know all of the things that make collectors tick. I know in other areas of collecting, it sounds like sheer lunacy to me. There is a long way between an assault rifle (usually not legal unless you get extra background checks, pay and extra tax and have note from the highest local LEO in your area that says you can and then you can pay more than $8,000 for the privilege). What about a Mauser? what about an 1845 Navy Colt? What about a Springfield M3 1903A3? What about any of the hundreds of thousands of other guns that lie in between? Are those ok, in your book, to collect or not?

I would say, you can only use one gun at a time. If you like to spend money on guns, go for it. I would be very surprised if any of the heavy collectors of guns had anger issues or mental issues or anything of the sort. They apparently have more money than I do, because that would be one expensive hobby.

A high capacity magazine is something that holds more than is standard for the weapon, in my book. AR-15 should have a 30 round magazine, same with an AK. My M1A should have a 20 round magazine. I think people are silly trying to put 100 round drums on an AR-15. Primarily because it doesn't work well. It jams, just like it did with the guy in Aurora that tried to use one. The the magazine retaining spring wasn't made to hold all that weight. I'd be fine limiting rifles to what they are supposed to have. But, not at all limiting them to some silly and arbitrary number that some politician comes up with.

 

[Mad Scientist]

My Dad has a collection of guns to include a Walther PPK, A Luger with Nazi proofs and an AR-15 without the forward assisst and as far as I know, has never fired ANY of them!

OP needs to stop watching so much TV.

 

[whitehall]

I've heard the -- bad -- argument that what a lot of people call "gun nuts" are just...collectors. Hobbyists. I have a lot of hobbies, none of them involving guns, so that got me thinking.

There are tools, and collector's items, and materials stored up to have options. Having too much yarn or spices or books is having lots of options. Collector's items are mostly historical in the case of guns or anything else, I think --- dueling pistols or flintlocks would be a reasonable collector's item even for guns. But modern functional assault rifles? Calling them collector's items is phoney.

Aren't guns really just tools? They have a function, and if you buy them for tools, you should want to use them for their purpose, but if you use an assault rifle for its purpose, you'll be arrested by a SWAT team. I garden a lot and thinking about this I realized I have ten shovels. I never "collected" them -- I just acquired them at need throughout the years. And I use all of them, every year, for their actual purpose: the go-to pointed shovel for regular digging, the light grain shovel for snow and straw-mixed light manure and black compost, the little Sears shovel as a sort of large trowel for big pots, and so on through the list.

We have guns and I view them as tools, and so I don't expect to use many!! There's the 22 for foxes and dogs in with the livestock and a shotgun and a pistol for home defense. I'm not expecting to stand off an army, who would need more?? Well, a hunter might need a more powerful rifle, but I don't hunt. I accept packages of venison shot on or near our land, and very pleased to have it, too.

My point is that if people have more guns than they can actually USE, there is something very, very weird and suspicious about that. One wonders about their motivation, and their anger level. And whether they are fantasizing arming the neighborhood when the riots or the revolution starts. It's not an innocent hobby, buying lots and lots of guns and high-capacity magazines and ammo: it's basically about wishing and hoping to kill people. Right? Is there any other motivation besides wishing for the chance to kill lots of people?

Is there something very very weird about collecting more cars than you can drive? Talk to Jay Leno. People collect all sorts of war related memorabilia including tanks and planes. Some collections of war related weapons are considered priceless. So far it is an "innocent" hobby for law abiding citizens to collect so-called assault riifles regardless of the opinions of small minded people.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Here's an example of how hobbies are not always innocent.

Suppose you had a hobby of collecting bondage S&M equipment? You got your whips and your rattan canes and you've got the leatherhead zipper-mouth mask and handcuffs and footcuffs and ...so on.

So a date finds all this stuff organized neatly in a bondage safe and she .....well, for some reason she seems suspicious! I can't THINK why. And she leaves, and later when there is a rape killing in the area, you are visited by police, who have somehow found out about your interesting collection, and though you tell them it's just your COLLECTION, see, somehow they don't seem to believe you.

No, of course they don't. Because those are tools, too, and if you've got them, people assume you want to use them and may well use them, just as when you've got AR-15 rifles and lots of high-capacity magazines people assume you want to mow down as many civilians as possible.

Because that IS what these tools are for.

Well, see, there's something called shooting sports. There are whole elaborate contests that are timed etc with various scenarios, all standardized so people can go through them at different locations and get scored. The weapons you are wetting your pants about are used in these sports.

Now you must also learn that if you are talking about an AR-15, it is not and assault weapon. It looks like an assault weapon. Same with the civilian AK-47. It looks like an assault rifle. Don't call it an assault rifle, that is incorrect. Assault rifles are fully automatic, not semi-automatic.