Gov. Christie's Plan to Scrap Teacher Tenure

[editec]

I don't think anyone should be guaranteed a job for life. It is ridiculous.

The very very very few educators who have jobs guaranteed for life are college professors.

No k-12 teaching contract I know grants such immunity from firing.

If you can find me an example of a k-12 public school teachers' contract that grants immunity from firing, please do by all means direct me to it.

I submit to you that you have been mislead by the media into thinking tenure means something it onlyu very rarely means and that such tenure exists only in SOME universities, and for a very small number of professors.

It is indeed very hard to get rid of a tenured teacher in K-12. I had a continuing contract as many of my colleagues and no longer subject to review. Some of my colleagues, honestly did not belong in the classroom any longer.

There should have been a continuing review, and no tenure. I was also a Consultant who mentored new teachers, evaluated them and recommneded firing if need be.

Another sister program was for experienced teachers who were referred by the principal, who may have been tenured but were poor performing and were counselled and mentored. Failing this help, with the cooperation of the union, they were let go. But of course this was only because this was a union project and and never did a friend of the union enter this project despite the wishes of the principal. lol.

Show me a teachers contract that grants tenure prventing a teacher from being fired, please.

I don't think you can.

Go ahead, show me one.

I double dare ya.

 

[Skull Pilot]

o skull you are always so harsh....teachers cannot be dismissed in a hour...you are not working with products ...you are working with kids....kids need the security of a teacher being there all year etc.

Teachers do not provide security for kids. They are there to teach if they stop teaching well they should be shit canned and a better teacher put in their place.

 

[Sallow]

Gov. Chris Christie, who wants to scrap teacher tenure, today said he would like a system that reviews teacher performance every five years.

Christie suggested placing teachers on five-year contracts. When a contract expires, the teacher’s performance would be reviewed and decision would be made whether to renew for another five years, he said today at a town hall meeting in Paramus.

Gov. Christie pushes five-year performance review for teachers | NJ.com

Good idea?

Yep.

It's going to encourage every high quality prospect to seek employment in the private sector thereby gutting public education in New Jersey.

As planned. Grover Norquist would be proud!

[/sarcasm]

 

[American Horse]

o skull you are always so harsh....teachers cannot be dismissed in a hour...you are not working with products ...you are working with kids....kids need the security of a teacher being there all year etc.

Christie wants to change that: He said he would support switching to a system that gives individual teachers five-year contracts, which districts could renew based on merit.
That would at least be a good starting point, and would give teachers an opportunity to improve if in the beginning they were marginal.

 

[Jackson]

The very very very few educators who have jobs guaranteed for life are college professors.

No k-12 teaching contract I know grants such immunity from firing.

If you can find me an example of a k-12 public school teachers' contract that grants immunity from firing, please do by all means direct me to it.

I submit to you that you have been mislead by the media into thinking tenure means something it onlyu very rarely means and that such tenure exists only in SOME universities, and for a very small number of professors.

It is indeed very hard to get rid of a tenured teacher in K-12. I had a continuing contract as many of my colleagues and no longer subject to review. Some of my colleagues, honestly did not belong in the classroom any longer.

There should have been a continuing review, and no tenure. I was also a Consultant who mentored new teachers, evaluated them and recommneded firing if need be.

Another sister program was for experienced teachers who were referred by the principal, who may have been tenured but were poor performing and were counselled and mentored. Failing this help, with the cooperation of the union, they were let go. But of course this was only because this was a union project and and never did a friend of the union enter this project despite the wishes of the principal. lol.

Show me a teachers contract that grants tenure prventing a teacher from being fired, please.

I don't think you can.

Go ahead, show me one.

I double dare ya.

Double dare? {{{oh,oh!}}}} I didn't say it prevents it, it makes it very difficult. Felony crimes would result in instant firing. Thanks for the post.

 

[Jackson]

o skull you are always so harsh....teachers cannot be dismissed in a hour...you are not working with products ...you are working with kids....kids need the security of a teacher being there all year etc.

Christie wants to change that: He said he would support switching to a system that gives individual teachers five-year contracts, which districts could renew based on merit.
That would at least be a good starting point, and would give teachers an opportunity to improve if in the beginning they were marginal.

It would give teacher warning that they had better keep their nose to the grindstone as well!

 

[Skull Pilot]

It is indeed very hard to get rid of a tenured teacher in K-12. I had a continuing contract as many of my colleagues and no longer subject to review. Some of my colleagues, honestly did not belong in the classroom any longer.

There should have been a continuing review, and no tenure. I was also a Consultant who mentored new teachers, evaluated them and recommneded firing if need be.

Another sister program was for experienced teachers who were referred by the principal, who may have been tenured but were poor performing and were counselled and mentored. Failing this help, with the cooperation of the union, they were let go. But of course this was only because this was a union project and and never did a friend of the union enter this project despite the wishes of the principal. lol.

Show me a teachers contract that grants tenure prventing a teacher from being fired, please.

I don't think you can.

Go ahead, show me one.

I double dare ya.

Double dare? {{{oh,oh!}}}} I didn't say it prevents it, it makes it very difficult. Felony crimes would result in instant firing. Thanks for the post.

I triple dog dare you!

[youtube]8XlPwsmkPHI[/youtube]

 

[Jackson]

Show me a teachers contract that grants tenure prventing a teacher from being fired, please.

I don't think you can.

Go ahead, show me one.

I double dare ya.

Double dare? {{{oh,oh!}}}} I didn't say it prevents it, it makes it very difficult. Felony crimes would result in instant firing. Thanks for the post.

I triple dog dare you!

[youtube]8XlPwsmkPHI[/youtube]

And I'm not putting my tongue on any ol' flag pole either!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Gov. Chris Christie, who wants to scrap teacher tenure, today said he would like a system that reviews teacher performance every five years.

Christie suggested placing teachers on five-year contracts. When a contract expires, the teacher’s performance would be reviewed and decision would be made whether to renew for another five years, he said today at a town hall meeting in Paramus.

Gov. Christie pushes five-year performance review for teachers | NJ.com

Good idea?

It's a good idea if you think making teaching a less attractive profession will encourage more of the best and brightest to become teachers.

 

[Jackson]

Gov. Chris Christie, who wants to scrap teacher tenure, today said he would like a system that reviews teacher performance every five years.

Christie suggested placing teachers on five-year contracts. When a contract expires, the teacher’s performance would be reviewed and decision would be made whether to renew for another five years, he said today at a town hall meeting in Paramus.

Gov. Christie pushes five-year performance review for teachers | NJ.com

Good idea?

It's a good idea if you think making teaching a less attractive profession will encourage more of the best and brightest to become teachers.

You have a good point there. The best teachers have excellent work ethics and are the hardest workers with creative ideas. They would be sought out in most business careers they chose for a vocation at three times their salary as teachers. But they stay in education as a calling.

 

[chanel]

As many of you know, I teach in NJ. I brought this up at lunch today with some pretty hard core union folks. They didn't really have a problem with it; probably because they are good teachers. The devil is in the details. I have been fortunate enough to have perfect evaluations all 13 years I have been teaching. Even if I pissed someone off, they'd be hard pressed to fire me with the documentation they have. However, if they start using test scores, I'd be toast. Some of my students are at a 3rd grade reading level.

It would be great if Christie could work with the NJEA to come up with a fair evaluation process. I just don't see it happening though. They're at war.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

I think tenure should be taken away from teachers. I think their jobs should be secure for the semester (only for the children), but past that no tenure.

However I think teacher salaries have to be raised. There's not a lot of incentive for people to become teachers right now. I understand teachers should do it for the money (I myself am am licensed to teach 6-12th grade social studies in FL), but you still need something to keep the qualified people there-or they'll get jobs elsewhere for more money.

Tenure is something that attracts people to becoming teachers, so if you get rid of that-raise teacher salaries (which are already pretty low). The future generations depend on their teachers to prepare them for life, and they should be treated with a higher importance.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gov. Chris Christie, who wants to scrap teacher tenure, today said he would like a system that reviews teacher performance every five years.

Christie suggested placing teachers on five-year contracts. When a contract expires, the teacher’s performance would be reviewed and decision would be made whether to renew for another five years, he said today at a town hall meeting in Paramus.

Gov. Christie pushes five-year performance review for teachers | NJ.com

Good idea?

As long as those five-year contracts after the first year are not "at will" contracts and as long as the contracts are reviewed by a committee balanced among administrators, teaching peers, and community advocates.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think tenure should be taken away from teachers. I think their jobs should be secure for the semester (only for the children), but past that no tenure.

However I think teacher salaries have to be raised. There's not a lot of incentive for people to become teachers right now. I understand teachers should do it for the money (I myself am am licensed to teach 6-12th grade social studies in FL), but you still need something to keep the qualified people there-or they'll get jobs elsewhere for more money.

Tenure is something that attracts people to becoming teachers, so if you get rid of that-raise teacher salaries (which are already pretty low). The future generations depend on their teachers to prepare them for life, and they should be treated with a higher importance.

You have some points that need to be examined more closely. I like much of what you suggest. If you can figure how to get politicization out of the teacher renewal process, then I would be willing to reconsider this. We are having some issues with that here on the school board, some Tea Party members want cultural approval of the teachers, and the majority on the board won't play with the TP. So. . . we will see what we will see.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The greatest enemies of the US education system are the US Department of Education and the UFT, they should be eliminated.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The greatest enemy of American education are those who don't understand that all people are created equal, and that those people have due process under the law. The second greatest enemies of education are the federal and state education agencies. The third great enemies of public education are those local governments that violated equal education for all children and threw the game to the feds. The locals running home rule answered for their evil ways.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, that was fun. Messing with frank is crank.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We've had a federal department of ED for decades and education has gotten Progressively worse...what's the exit strategy from this disaster?

When will Progressives admit failure (hint: they never do , they just ask for more money)?

 

[chanel]

Well tenure did not attract me to the field. It was the health benefits, summers off, and my love of kids and books. But what a lot of people don't realize is that while tenure may protect a few bad teachers, it protects many good teachers as well. Teachers are often the victims of phony accusations by students and parents. There are people who would LOVE to see a teacher fired or their reputation destroyed simply because "they don't like them". I can't think of any other profession where that is commonplace. And sometimes when a lie is told enough times...

There has to be major protections in place for situations like this. Tenure serves that purpose for now.

 

[editec]

It is indeed very hard to get rid of a tenured teacher in K-12. I had a continuing contract as many of my colleagues and no longer subject to review. Some of my colleagues, honestly did not belong in the classroom any longer.

There should have been a continuing review, and no tenure. I was also a Consultant who mentored new teachers, evaluated them and recommneded firing if need be.

Another sister program was for experienced teachers who were referred by the principal, who may have been tenured but were poor performing and were counselled and mentored. Failing this help, with the cooperation of the union, they were let go. But of course this was only because this was a union project and and never did a friend of the union enter this project despite the wishes of the principal. lol.

Show me a teachers contract that grants tenure prventing a teacher from being fired, please.

I don't think you can.

Go ahead, show me one.

I double dare ya.

Double dare? {{{oh,oh!}}}} I didn't say it prevents it, it makes it very difficult. Felony crimes would result in instant firing. Thanks for the post.

It's very difficult?

I don't think so.

Its very easy.

You fire them.

If they have tenure they get to appeal their firing ...to expactly the same people who fired them in the first place.

If it was so hard to fire teachers why do -k-12 educators have the highest rate of turnover of any profession?

Let me tell you, it's hard to fire almost any worker if they've been at a job long enough but TENURE is NOT what most people think it is.

REad this thread and tell me how many people here think that TENURE means you cannot get fired.

M<OST of them.

And YOU, if you are actually an educator are helping to ADVANCE a PERNICIOUS LIE that is designed ONLY to break the back of teacher's unions.

Why?