Global warming killing corals

[konradv]

Then why is it that whenever there is a major volcanic eruption there is an immediate, measurable impact on the weather? We've been pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere for over a century and we are arguing if the recorded rise of less than a degree is attributable to us. Do you see a problem there?

Apples and oranges. The immediate impact of a volcano is to LOWER temps due to pariculate matter and SO2 emissions, which block sunlight. Take THAT into account and the contribution of man may be "hidden by the decline" and actually be more than the degree so often mentioned. You really have to take EVERYTHING into account and not just the parts that fit your bias. It's what you keep telling us, but it doesn't seem to apply to you. Why not?

Apples and apples konrad. You claim that man puts more crap into the atmosphere then all of the volcanos on Earth and yet mans impact is arguable.... proveable only with computer models that can't recreate what occured ten days ago.

An eruption however causes an IMMEDIATE, MEASURABLE impact on weather. Seems to me you need to figure out what's really happening there, don't you?

We DO know and I explained it. Did you miss it or do you just ignore everything that doesn't fit your bias? Really, you're making this more of a religious argument than I am. You're operating totally on faith that we couldn't possibly doing anything to the environment, despite out history of pollution and our ability to destroy ourselves several times over.

 

[westwall]

I don't know anything about the computer models. Speak for yourself. What I know is:

The ability of CO2 to absorb energy is well documented.

The concentration has been going up, since the IR.

Therefore, if the trend continues, warming is inevitable.

It's your inability to deal with that basic logic, that forces you to resort to "religion" slurs. But that's ALL they are, slurs. They're NOT proof and they certainly aren't logic.

Here's what the world knows.

The effect of CO2 is masked almost entirely by water vapor. It opperates in the exact same frequency range as CO2 and is orders of magnitude greater in volumne.

The Vostock ice cores show that CO2 increases 800 years after warming has begun. The MWP was 800 years ago. The warming today will show a further increase in CO2 800 years from now.

You live in a time/space bubble while the Earth moves on without you.

 

[westwall]

one was in the range of 280-300 ppm, during most of human evolution, while the other is 380 and rising, since the advent of the IR.

so?

CO2 historically has been in the range between 1000 and 7600 ppm, what has since human evolution got to do with it?

I only care about our history. It's OUR climate we're trying to preserve, NOT the dinosaurs'!!!

I wasn't aware that dinosaurs took part in the Crusades...Who knew!

 

[westwall]

Apples and oranges. The immediate impact of a volcano is to LOWER temps due to pariculate matter and SO2 emissions, which block sunlight. Take THAT into account and the contribution of man may be "hidden by the decline" and actually be more than the degree so often mentioned. You really have to take EVERYTHING into account and not just the parts that fit your bias. It's what you keep telling us, but it doesn't seem to apply to you. Why not?

Apples and apples konrad. You claim that man puts more crap into the atmosphere then all of the volcanos on Earth and yet mans impact is arguable.... proveable only with computer models that can't recreate what occured ten days ago.

An eruption however causes an IMMEDIATE, MEASURABLE impact on weather. Seems to me you need to figure out what's really happening there, don't you?

We DO know and I explained it. Did you miss it or do you just ignore everything that doesn't fit your bias? Really, you're making this more of a religious argument than I am. You're operating totally on faith that we couldn't possibly doing anything to the environment, despite out history of pollution and our ability to destroy ourselves several times over.

Wrong again, and you continue to misrepresent what I and the rest of the sceptical world is saying. We know that man does tremendous damage to local areas, I in fact, work to fix those places. What is FAR from clear is mans impact on the climate. We can show many times throughout recent history (yes man was here 800 years ago) when the temps were much higher without CO2 in abundance, more importantly we can also show when CO2 was in abundance and it still got cold.

All you can do is wave your hands and quote the Borg.

 

[loosecannon]

one was in the range of 280-300 ppm, during most of human evolution, while the other is 380 and rising, since the advent of the IR.

so?

CO2 historically has been in the range between 1000 and 7600 ppm, what has since human evolution got to do with it?

I only care about our history. It's OUR climate we're trying to preserve, NOT the dinosaurs'!!!

Then live in a climate controlled house and stop worrying at all.

And if you do worry worry about the planet.

Humans will thrive if it get's warmer. You can be certain of that.

 

[Old Rocks]

So while it's alive it's called coral also.

Thanks.

I thought it had to die to become coral reef.

No, it is like a tree. Outer skin is alive, but the inner part is an inert skeleton.

So explain how Global Warming can kill coral?

I mean...doesn't it take an increase of water temp like 50 degrees or more? How in the heck could that happen? Could it be something else?

Scientists: Global warming could kill coral reefs by 2050 - USATODAY.com

"There's no uncertainly how much the pH is going to drop given a certain amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere," Langdon says. "Everyone would agree within 1% what the pH is going to be." When it comes to ocean acidification, "it's crystal clear that it's caused by humans burning fossil fuels."

Coral reefs are already under stress due to increasing numbers of "bleaching events." When ocean temperatures rise for weeks or more, coral, which are actually tiny marine animals, expel the algae that live within them. These symbiotic algae provide the coral with a major source of food. If water temperatures drop the coral can recover, but are weakened. Too many bleaching events can kill them.

 

[Old Rocks]

I don't know anything about the computer models. Speak for yourself. What I know is:

The ability of CO2 to absorb energy is well documented.

The concentration has been going up, since the IR.

Therefore, if the trend continues, warming is inevitable.

It's your inability to deal with that basic logic, that forces you to resort to "religion" slurs. But that's ALL they are, slurs. They're NOT proof and they certainly aren't logic.

Here's what the world knows.

The effect of CO2 is masked almost entirely by water vapor. It opperates in the exact same frequency range as CO2 and is orders of magnitude greater in volumne.

The Vostock ice cores show that CO2 increases 800 years after warming has begun. The MWP was 800 years ago. The warming today will show a further increase in CO2 800 years from now.

You live in a time/space bubble while the Earth moves on without you.

Here's what Walleyes knows. If he keeps repeating nonsense long enough, the willfully ignorant will latch onto his every word. Of not a single scientific society, not even in outer slobovia, agrees with him, but that is irrelevant.

USGS Release: Climate Projections Underestimate CO2 Impact (12/7/2009 112 PM)

The climate may be 30–50 percent more sensitive to atmospheric carbon dioxide in the long term than previously thought, according to a study published in Nature Geoscience yesterday.

Projections over the next hundreds of years of climate conditions, including global temperatures, may need to be adjusted to reflect this higher sensitivity.

“Climate change is affecting water supplies for cities and farms; leading to more severe droughts, hurricanes, and floods; contributing to more intense forest fires; and putting coastal communities at risk,” said Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar, who is on his way to the global climate change conference convening this week in Copenhagen. “This study and the ongoing work of our USGS scientists will help us continue to build more precise long-term projections and to prepare for the impacts of climate change on our world.”

A team of scientists, led by the University of Bristol and including the U.S. Geological Survey, studied global temperatures 3.3 to 3 million years ago, finding that the averages were significantly higher than expected from the atmospheric carbon dioxide levels at the time.

These underestimates occurred because the long-term sensitivity of the Earth system was not accurately taken into account. In these earlier periods, Earth had more time to adjust to some of the slower impacts of climate change. For example, as the climate warms and ice sheets melt, Earth will absorb more sunlight and continue to warm in the future since less ice is present to reflect the sun.


Of course, he will just denigrate the scientists at the USGS. He knows so much more than they do, it's just that peers are not interested in what he knows. Wonder why that could be?

 

[westwall]

I don't know anything about the computer models. Speak for yourself. What I know is:

The ability of CO2 to absorb energy is well documented.

The concentration has been going up, since the IR.

Therefore, if the trend continues, warming is inevitable.

It's your inability to deal with that basic logic, that forces you to resort to "religion" slurs. But that's ALL they are, slurs. They're NOT proof and they certainly aren't logic.

Here's what the world knows.

The effect of CO2 is masked almost entirely by water vapor. It opperates in the exact same frequency range as CO2 and is orders of magnitude greater in volumne.

The Vostock ice cores show that CO2 increases 800 years after warming has begun. The MWP was 800 years ago. The warming today will show a further increase in CO2 800 years from now.

You live in a time/space bubble while the Earth moves on without you.

Here's what Walleyes knows. If he keeps repeating nonsense long enough, the willfully ignorant will latch onto his every word. Of not a single scientific society, not even in outer slobovia, agrees with him, but that is irrelevant.

USGS Release: Climate Projections Underestimate CO2 Impact (12/7/2009 112 PM)

The climate may be 30–50 percent more sensitive to atmospheric carbon dioxide in the long term than previously thought, according to a study published in Nature Geoscience yesterday.

Projections over the next hundreds of years of climate conditions, including global temperatures, may need to be adjusted to reflect this higher sensitivity.

“Climate change is affecting water supplies for cities and farms; leading to more severe droughts, hurricanes, and floods; contributing to more intense forest fires; and putting coastal communities at risk,” said Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar, who is on his way to the global climate change conference convening this week in Copenhagen. “This study and the ongoing work of our USGS scientists will help us continue to build more precise long-term projections and to prepare for the impacts of climate change on our world.”

A team of scientists, led by the University of Bristol and including the U.S. Geological Survey, studied global temperatures 3.3 to 3 million years ago, finding that the averages were significantly higher than expected from the atmospheric carbon dioxide levels at the time.

These underestimates occurred because the long-term sensitivity of the Earth system was not accurately taken into account. In these earlier periods, Earth had more time to adjust to some of the slower impacts of climate change. For example, as the climate warms and ice sheets melt, Earth will absorb more sunlight and continue to warm in the future since less ice is present to reflect the sun.


Of course, he will just denigrate the scientists at the USGS. He knows so much more than they do, it's just that peers are not interested in what he knows. Wonder why that could be?

I have many friends at the USGS and respect their work immensly however, this particular report, from the University of Bristol with help from the USGS is an exception. If you bother to read the actual report you will see it is all based on computer modelling.
Those have some very significant problems at the current time.

The title says it all

"Earth system sensitivity inferred from Pliocene modelling and data"
Access : Earth system sensitivity inferred from Pliocene modelling and data : Nature Geoscience

 

[westwall]

No, it is like a tree. Outer skin is alive, but the inner part is an inert skeleton.

So explain how Global Warming can kill coral?

I mean...doesn't it take an increase of water temp like 50 degrees or more? How in the heck could that happen? Could it be something else?

Scientists: Global warming could kill coral reefs by 2050 - USATODAY.com

"There's no uncertainly how much the pH is going to drop given a certain amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere," Langdon says. "Everyone would agree within 1% what the pH is going to be." When it comes to ocean acidification, "it's crystal clear that it's caused by humans burning fossil fuels."

Coral reefs are already under stress due to increasing numbers of "bleaching events." When ocean temperatures rise for weeks or more, coral, which are actually tiny marine animals, expel the algae that live within them. These symbiotic algae provide the coral with a major source of food. If water temperatures drop the coral can recover, but are weakened. Too many bleaching events can kill them.

Your scientists have been saying the whole world "could" die any minute now. How many tipping points have we reached....this year?

In other words...YAWN!

 

[Big Fitz]

Aaaaaaand Westwall nukes the bullshit from orbit. Good job.

 

[Emeraldgreen]

corals are beautiful so hopefully the effects revert

 

[westwall]

corals are beautiful so hopefully the effects revert

Do a little research and you will find that corals evolved when the CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere were 20 times higher than the current day. 20 times. Don't believe a word I just wrote, go and do the research yourself and have a good time learning about the world, it is a truly fascinating place.

 

[Big Fitz]

corals are beautiful so hopefully the effects revert

Do not be concerned. You have picked up a signal from our resident 'science experts' who are obsessed with being chicken littles. If you finish reading this post, you've surpassed their estimates for your life expectancy according to current models.

that is all.

 

[Chris]

International marine scientists say the worst coral bleaching in more than a decade has struck reefs across the South-East Asian and Indian oceans in recent months.

They say that the coral death could be the most damaging bleaching event ever recorded.

It has hit the area known as the Coral Triangle, which has more than 500 coral species making it the richest marine biodiversity zone on the planet.

But over the past six months, there have been some significant changes.

Andrew Baird, from the ARC Centre for Excellence for Coral Reef Studies, says the bleaching is far-reaching.

"A lot of reports have come in from the Andaman Sea - so Thailand down [to] Singapore, Malaysia - the scale is huge," he said.

"It probably extends from the Western Indian Ocean, right across into the Coral Triangle and also there's bleaching in the Philippines and it's starting to get hot in the Pacific.

"So it looks like this event will be as big as the last global bleaching event which was 1998."

Dr Baird has been working in Aceh on the boundary of the Coral Triangle. He says the impact there has been severe.

"What we've seen there is a bleaching event that was caused by hot water back in May and what we've documented is about 80 per cent of the Acropora, which is typically the most predominant coral species... are dead," he said.

Coral bleaching event 'worst since 1998' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[westwall]

International marine scientists say the worst coral bleaching in more than a decade has struck reefs across the South-East Asian and Indian oceans in recent months.

They say that the coral death could be the most damaging bleaching event ever recorded.

It has hit the area known as the Coral Triangle, which has more than 500 coral species making it the richest marine biodiversity zone on the planet.

But over the past six months, there have been some significant changes.

Andrew Baird, from the ARC Centre for Excellence for Coral Reef Studies, says the bleaching is far-reaching.

"A lot of reports have come in from the Andaman Sea - so Thailand down [to] Singapore, Malaysia - the scale is huge," he said.

"It probably extends from the Western Indian Ocean, right across into the Coral Triangle and also there's bleaching in the Philippines and it's starting to get hot in the Pacific.

"So it looks like this event will be as big as the last global bleaching event which was 1998."

Dr Baird has been working in Aceh on the boundary of the Coral Triangle. He says the impact there has been severe.

"What we've seen there is a bleaching event that was caused by hot water back in May and what we've documented is about 80 per cent of the Acropora, which is typically the most predominant coral species... are dead," he said.

Coral bleaching event 'worst since 1998' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Oh boy are these the same "experts" who claimed the Maldives would be under water by now? Why yes they are! With a track record like that we have nothing to be concerned about.

 

[konradv]

International marine scientists say the worst coral bleaching in more than a decade has struck reefs across the South-East Asian and Indian oceans in recent months.

They say that the coral death could be the most damaging bleaching event ever recorded.

It has hit the area known as the Coral Triangle, which has more than 500 coral species making it the richest marine biodiversity zone on the planet.

But over the past six months, there have been some significant changes.

Andrew Baird, from the ARC Centre for Excellence for Coral Reef Studies, says the bleaching is far-reaching.

"A lot of reports have come in from the Andaman Sea - so Thailand down [to] Singapore, Malaysia - the scale is huge," he said.

"It probably extends from the Western Indian Ocean, right across into the Coral Triangle and also there's bleaching in the Philippines and it's starting to get hot in the Pacific.

"So it looks like this event will be as big as the last global bleaching event which was 1998."

Dr Baird has been working in Aceh on the boundary of the Coral Triangle. He says the impact there has been severe.

"What we've seen there is a bleaching event that was caused by hot water back in May and what we've documented is about 80 per cent of the Acropora, which is typically the most predominant coral species... are dead," he said.

Coral bleaching event 'worst since 1998' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Oh boy are these the same "experts" who claimed the Maldives would be under water by now? Why yes they are! With a track record like that we have nothing to be concerned about.

Who claimed the Maldives would be under water by now? Once again, you just seem to be making things up. Because you believe AGW proponents are doing it, do you feel that gives you the green light to do the same?

 

[Care4all]

if you believe in God/the Bible:

Eventually, God will ''DESTROY those who destroy the Earth...''

this prophesy sounds like God KNOWS humans will destroy, poison, abuse the gift of Earth....not the Sun cycle, not an asteroid, not the tilt of our axis, but HUMANS spoil/destroy the Earth, no?

 

[Big Fitz]

if you believe in God/the Bible:

Eventually, God will ''DESTROY those who destroy the Earth...''

this prophesy sounds like God KNOWS humans will destroy, poison, abuse the gift of Earth....not the Sun cycle, not an asteroid, not the tilt of our axis, but HUMANS spoil/destroy the Earth, no?

God works in mysterious ways and through many mediums... even us, I guess. But the laws of thermodynamics say that nothing new is created, only changed in form... and is ruled by entropy.

The Bible also commissions us to be good stewards of the Earth, and is for us to use. We rule it, not the other way around.

That being said, Chris is still a quart or two low.

 

[Care4all]

What causes Acid Rain?

Are there natural causes as well as manmade?

 

[westwall]

What causes Acid Rain?

Are there natural causes as well as manmade?

Yes, any volcanic eruption will create thousands of tons of acid rain. For almost every type of pollution that man causes there is a natural analog.