Germany upset over our socialist government

[Ravi]

This is kind of funny.

HANOVER, Germany, Sept 25 (Reuters) - The German auto industry attacked U.S. politicians on Thursday over plans to give $25 billion in low-interest loans to Detroit's crisis-stricken carmakers.


"We are opponents of subsidy contests," the head of the VDA automotive industry association, Matthias Wissmann, said during the IAA truck show in Hanover.

UPDATE 1-German carmakers attack U.S. govt help for rivals | Markets | Bonds News | Reuters

 

[WillowTree]

should we send them a quarter?

 

[mightypeon]

Actually, the only German party in support of the 700 billion bill are the extreme left "Linkspartei" which are so left that the Social Democrats (who would be on the extreme left end of the US democrats) claim they will not cooperate with them at state level.

 

[Diuretic]

So much for free trade. But it speaks volumes. Another bailout for another failing industry. Where will it end?

 

[Ravi]

So much for free trade. But it speaks volumes. Another bailout for another failing industry. Where will it end?

A good question, that. I have a feeling we won't know for quite some time.

 

[Navy1960]

This is the same country that for years and year sent billions to Airbus in subsidies at the expense of Boeing. Now they complain, about the US being to socialist, I'm waiting for all their Eurpoen partner to chime in and say the same thing. However, we don't need to be rewarding bad business or irresponsibility by giving blank checks to every industry that needs a lift. You do realize after the auto industry, come the Airlines again, then the aerospace industry, then etc etc.

 

[Diuretic]

This is the same country that for years and year sent billions to Airbus in subsidies at the expense of Boeing. Now they complain, about the US being to socialist, I'm waiting for all their Eurpoen partner to chime in and say the same thing. However, we don't need to be rewarding bad business or irresponsibility by giving blank checks to every industry that needs a lift. You do realize after the auto industry, come the Airlines again, then the aerospace industry, then etc etc.

Was it subsidies? I thought Airbus Industrie was a French- German consortium underwritten by governments? Or something like that anyway.

But it looks like Germany is positioning itself:

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Germany's finance minister on Thursday laid the blame for the global banking crisis on the Anglo-American free-market model's quest for ever-higher near-term profits, predicting the United States would soon lose its role as the world's dominant financial power.
"The U.S. will lose its status as the superpower of the global financial system, not abruptly but it will erode," Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck told the lower house of Germany's parliament in Berlin, according to published reports. "The global financial system will become more multi-polar."

U.S. to lose financial superpower status: German finance minister - MarketWatch

 

[Ravi]

This is what scares me the most, really, losing our edge as superpower. Maybe that's selfish, but there it is...

 

[CA95380]

I have stock in a local "pet store". Am I included in the bailout? If I am they forgot to send me the application to apply. Shit!

 

[Navy1960]

Was it subsidies? I thought Airbus Industrie was a French- German consortium underwritten by governments? Or something like that anyway.

But it looks like Germany is positioning itself:





U.S. to lose financial superpower status: German finance minister - MarketWatch

Airbus S.A.S. (pronounced /ˈɛərbʌs/ in English, /ɛʁbys/ in French, and /ˈɛːɐbʊs/ in German) is an aircraft manufacturing subsidiary of EADS, a European aerospace consortium. Based in Toulouse, France, and with significant activity across Europe, the company produces around half of the world's jet airliners.

Airbus began as a consortium of aerospace manufacturers. Consolidation of European defence and aerospace companies around the turn of the century allowed the establishment of a simplified joint stock company in 2001, owned by EADS (80%) and BAE Systems (20%). After a protracted sales process BAE sold its shareholding to EADS on 13 October 2006.[3]

Airbus employs around 57,000 people at sixteen sites in four European Union countries: Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and Spain. Final assembly production is at Toulouse (France), Hamburg (Germany) and Seville (Spain).

Airbus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EADS recieves subsidies from several of it's european partner governments Diuretic, it's one reason why the U.S and Europe are at odds with each other in the WTO at the moment on the very same subsidies. However, that being said, I still don't belive my government should come to the rescue to a company that runs itself into the ground because of it's business "irresponsibility". I didn't see the US government rushing to save Eastern Airlines, or McDonnell Douglas.

 

[Diuretic]

Thanks for that info Navy.

Just thinking about this now. The US eschews subsidies for businesses. But I think the US has subsidies for farmers based on domestic politics. Yes, I know Europe does the same (I've read that France does it for cultural reasons - which is no excuse to subsidise inefficient food production practices) and it is notoriously protective.

Time for a new approach all around I think. It might be that after this turmoil that the US revises its previous approaches to industrial production and Europe should think about removing some of its protections of inefficient industries. Just thinking on my keyboard, I have no expertise in any of these areas.

 

[Navy1960]

Thanks for that info Navy.

Just thinking about this now. The US eschews subsidies for businesses. But I think the US has subsidies for farmers based on domestic politics. Yes, I know Europe does the same (I've read that France does it for cultural reasons - which is no excuse to subsidise inefficient food production practices) and it is notoriously protective.

Time for a new approach all around I think. It might be that after this turmoil that the US revises its previous approaches to industrial production and Europe should think about removing some of its protections of inefficient industries. Just thinking on my keyboard, I have no expertise in any of these areas.

I cannot say I disagree with that, the only thing I seem to take issue with,is you have people out there that each and everyday, work hard, pay bills, and do the best they can. So when a company or individual does none of those things the message is "it's okay" all those suckers that are out there doing the right thing will pay for it anyway. For some reason, paying for someone elses mistakes doesn't sit well with me. If I have to then don't turn it into a reward system , rather one that solves the root causes. Let me give you an example, in my area, we have literally 1000's of empty homes, and it seems to me giving billions of dollars to bail out Wall Street and doing NOTHING to reduce this inventory solves nothing, because all you have is a "bailout" of the irresponsible lenders and nothing to solve one of the root problems.

 

[Diuretic]

I cannot say I disagree with that, the only thing I seem to take issue with,is you have people out there that each and everyday, work hard, pay bills, and do the best they can. So when a company or individual does none of those things the message is "it's okay" all those suckers that are out there doing the right thing will pay for it anyway. For some reason, paying for someone elses mistakes doesn't sit well with me. If I have to then don't turn it into a reward system , rather one that solves the root causes. Let me give you an example, in my area, we have literally 1000's of empty homes, and it seems to me giving billions of dollars to bail out Wall Street and doing NOTHING to reduce this inventory solves nothing, because all you have is a "bailout" of the irresponsible lenders and nothing to solve one of the root problems.

I'm in agreement. The people who are suffering because of the crisis are the people who made the financial/economic system work. I'll be frank with you - I view the people who stood on the backs of working and middle class people as not much better than parasites. That's not meant to be a slur on an individual. I know there are posters here who work in finance - heck they could be on Wall Street - and I am informed by their posts on these issues. But people who pocket millions and millions of dollars of other people's money for doing nothing actually productive are parasites. A financial system shouldn't be a virtual casino and the croupiers shouldn't be paid so much money that they would need twenty lifetimes to spend it.

Perhaps it's time to reconsider the big issues, this may well be an opportunity for us all to seek change which benefits everyone. I find it risible that people who have millions of dollars of personal wealth are in doom and gloom about this crisis. They're protected, it's the ordinary person whose main asset (house) is plummeting in value who is suffering. That's the reality.

Bugger ideology - this is a time for pragmatism.

 

[Navy1960]

I'm in agreement. The people who are suffering because of the crisis are the people who made the financial/economic system work. I'll be frank with you - I view the people who stood on the backs of working and middle class people as not much better than parasites. That's not meant to be a slur on an individual. I know there are posters here who work in finance - heck they could be on Wall Street - and I am informed by their posts on these issues. But people who pocket millions and millions of dollars of other people's money for doing nothing actually productive are parasites. A financial system shouldn't be a virtual casino and the croupiers shouldn't be paid so much money that they would need twenty lifetimes to spend it.

Perhaps it's time to reconsider the big issues, this may well be an opportunity for us all to seek change which benefits everyone. I find it risible that people who have millions of dollars of personal wealth are in doom and gloom about this crisis. They're protected, it's the ordinary person whose main asset (house) is plummeting in value who is suffering. That's the reality.

Bugger ideology - this is a time for pragmatism.

I have great respect for anyone or company that is successful and marks that success though business practices that are above board. None of this book cooking, stuff. The other thing is , this false sense of value some of thse companies build themselves up by cooking the books thus causing endless economic problems, i.e. tech bubble, housing bubble, is simply irresponsible. If you or I would in our daily lives were to misrepesent ourselves in such a manner to get a credit card, or house, then we would find ourselves in jail or at the very least bankruptcy court. I have said from the beginning that we have traditional methods that have worked in a crisis like this, it's called bankruptcy. You run your company into the ground, then it goes into bankruptcy and its assets are broken up to pay the creditors. Like you and I what I feel if these companies want a loan or " bailout" let them present some sort of collatoral like all those corporate jets, and homes, and buildings.

 

[I Missthe North]

Welcome to the beginnings of a socialist state. I can't wait...

 

[Navy1960]

Welcome to the beginnings of a socialist state. I can't wait...

Yeah I wonder where the free bread and toilet paper lines are going to be forming! lol I don't understand how hard it is to go up to the podium in the Senate or House and slap the gavel down and say "NO" sorry go to the local bankruptcy court, this not our area of responsibility!

 

[Anguille]

Thanks for that info Navy.

Just thinking about this now. The US eschews subsidies for businesses. But I think the US has subsidies for farmers based on domestic politics. Yes, I know Europe does the same (I've read that France does it for cultural reasons - which is no excuse to subsidise inefficient food production practices) and it is notoriously protective.

Time for a new approach all around I think. It might be that after this turmoil that the US revises its previous approaches to industrial production and Europe should think about removing some of its protections of inefficient industries. Just thinking on my keyboard, I have no expertise in any of these areas.

You think France will give up making Camembert without a fight?

Nom de Dieu!

 

[I Missthe North]

I understand that the very fabric of economy is in trouble because some of our largest corporation are going out, but is that not the point. Companies with shady business practices and a poor business plan go under and others will rise to fill their space since they are leaving open a huge share of the market. Why give money to a group of people that have already failed? I would rather give this money to up and coming companies with good business strategies and some semblance of fiscal responsibility. I guess that is too much to ask. Lets just save the guys who already screwed our economy in the first place. I guess congress does not want to lose all of their campaign contributors. Gotta love 'em.