Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

[Care4all]

The thread titile is a lie.

They can pray if they want and the people who dont want to pray are not forced to listen to someone else force religion on them.



Everyones rights are protected here

Does this mean I get to prevent someone else from exercising his1st Amendment Rights to free speech if he says something which I don't believe?

No one stoped anyone from praying

They stopped them from SAYING grace....what, free speech means you have to shut up TM....

I TOTALLY DISAGREE....free speech is free SPEECH....speech is OUT LOUD, not confined to shutting up TM.

 

[Ravi]

Makes me sick.

At least it doesn't offend you.

 

[jillian]

The prayers were the voluntary activity of the people eating the meals:

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said

....

"Like one lady said, 'You can stop me from speaking, but you can't stop me from praying what's in my heart,"' he said. "But the best answer right now is that we're trying to get the best information possible and legal council is looking at what would happen if we continued to pray."


The Center was not leading or sponsoring the prayers. The individuals involved wish to say their grace out loud.

I suppose if some of them started singing the "mmm mmm mmm Obama" song, that would be fine - but thanking God for their blessings is somehow wrong?

No wonder this country is falling apart.

Is this a government run center? And as Si Modo has pointed out several times, all the government did was provide food, that doesn't mean they get to dictate what people do before or after the meal. I can't believe the idiots on here who think that because the government provides the food they have the right to dictate what happens all around the meal. I guess people that receive welfare funds shouldn't have the right to attend church on Sunday's either since they accept government money? Talk about extremist bullshit.

precisely!

not really...

how would you feel if some group made you say a muslim prayer before you could eat?

personally, i feel the same way about saying christian prayer.

you want to pray...pray. but it shouldn't be organized prayer on my dime.

 

[chanel]

Radical atheists seek to abolish all religion except their own. "Religious neutral" now means anti-God. The war on American Christian traditions is not being waged by Jews or Muslims. Tolerance has become a misnomer like so many other words that have been perverted for political reasons.

 

[Si modo]

Is this a government run center? And as Si Modo has pointed out several times, all the government did was provide food, that doesn't mean they get to dictate what people do before or after the meal. I can't believe the idiots on here who think that because the government provides the food they have the right to dictate what happens all around the meal. I guess people that receive welfare funds shouldn't have the right to attend church on Sunday's either since they accept government money? Talk about extremist bullshit.

precisely!

not really...

how would you feel if some group made you say a muslim prayer before you could eat?

personally, i feel the same way about saying christian prayer.

you want to pray...pray. but it shouldn't be organized prayer on my dime.

Who is making anyone say a prayer?

The government did not organize a thing except for money for food; The People prayed.

We do not have any constitutional protection from feeling uncomfortable around another's speech.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

There is nothing in the first amendment that prohibits the practice of religion to a particular place. It seem to me the free exercise thereof part is being violated in this instance.

And who gives a shit what the delivery guy who is not even part of the community center thinks about some old people saying grace? He was not there to eat or participate in the meal just to deliver it. It seems none of the people who were there cared than grace was said before the meal only some peripheral delivery guy.

And do you really think the federal government would pull the meal subsidy for old people because they say grace? Some one should bitch slap the idiot who complained.

 

[Newby]

Is this a government run center? And as Si Modo has pointed out several times, all the government did was provide food, that doesn't mean they get to dictate what people do before or after the meal. I can't believe the idiots on here who think that because the government provides the food they have the right to dictate what happens all around the meal. I guess people that receive welfare funds shouldn't have the right to attend church on Sunday's either since they accept government money? Talk about extremist bullshit.

precisely!

not really...

how would you feel if some group made you say a muslim prayer before you could eat?

personally, i feel the same way about saying christian prayer.

you want to pray...pray. but it shouldn't be organized prayer on my dime.

No one was making anyone say anything.

 

[Anguille]

yes, imo, you are missing "free speech".....

I don't have to like what you are saying, but you still have the right to say it....the jews and muslims in congress, hears the opening prayer, by congress's Christian chaplin 80% of the time, and by guest speakers of various religions on other times....Christians do not stop the Rabbi guest or Muslim guest from speaking or saying the opening prayer...nor does congress plug its ears to it or claim it is unconstitutional due to the first amendment?

Congress sometimes does what it thinks it has to do to be sure to be re-elected. So far no congress person has had the courage, as far as I know, to contest that practice.

The opening prayer of Congress is a farce, just as having jurors swear on a bible is.

To YOU anguille, it is a farce, and you have the inalienable right, to keep this, as what YOU THINK, but to others it is NOT, and for them, they too have the inalienable right, to keep this, as what they think.

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a farce that our government, which is supposed to defend our right of freedom of religion, opens it's proceedings in Congress with a religious ritual. That and other things which run counter to our Constitution, such as judges who require that jurors and witnesses swear to God on a Bibleoaths of office with the phrase, "so help me God" all make a mockery of one of the basic tenets of our Constitution, that no state religion shall be established.

No one stops anyone from not getting their meal, if they do not join in saying the grace that others want to say....

But do they enjoy their meal after being subjected to peer pressure to conform to other people's religious requirements? That people are so pig headed and thoughtless that they think it's perfectly fine to subject other people to this sort of thing when they are about to enjoy a meal together never ceases to amaze me. That there have to be laws to prevent that sort of thing when it's is being paid for by the federal government just demonstrates how pushy some religious people are. Jillian mentions hoping her grandmother was never subjected to that. I hope that sort of thing never happens to an elderly relative of mine either. Since there now seems to be some question of just how true the story is, I can't argue that what was doen was wrong only that It seems perfectly clear to me that group prayer has no place at government sponsored events.

you do not have a right to put yourself in a bubble and only hear the things you agree with Anguille....not if you are in a public place....you do not have the right to stop the freedom of speech of others is how I see it, and they do not have the right to stop you....if you want to say some grace that thanks yourself or thanks the usa government for providing this meal, NO ONE is stopping you....you have that guaranteed freedom, to say, what you think as others have the same.

No one is objecting to individual actions but holding an organized religious demonstration at a senior dinner is just plain rude, not to mention illegal if it takes place at a government event and no permits have been granted

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names WILL NEVER HURT ME..... Why do you feel those seniors saying grace, HURTS YOU?

Who cares if they say grace? Why can't they just say it on their own? Why do they need to make it into some sort of thing that excludes other seniors?

I don't get it? I was taught to be accommodating and respectful to the religions or nonbeliefs of others...to let them all believe what they want to believe and NOT to ever disparage them....

Talk about over sensitive!!! No one is disparaging anyone's religion if they say they prefer not to have communal prayers at a meal in which they are just as important a guest as any Christian. It's one thing if you are in someone's private home or some church dinner. Then you should just be polite and wait for the prayer to be over. But no one should be made to feel they must do that before eating food provided by tax dollars.

Why do some Christians want to spoil dinner for other people? You don't see Jews or Muslims or Buddhists or atheists or whoever thinking they have a right to subject other people to a religious ritual at these events.

 

[Anguille]

Recently, that center told seniors they couldn't say a communal blessing and changed it to a moment of silence.

So it was a "communal blessing" and not just random individuals praying?

I wish you guys would make up your mind on the matter.

Don't count on it.

 

[strollingbones]

nor can anyone make anyone not pray.....where does the bible say to pray? you so called christians might be shocked at the answer to that...of course not one of you knows where the bible says to pray...cause you only use the bible to hate....what does the bible saying about praying for the glory of man?

 

[L.K.Eder]

precisely!

not really...

how would you feel if some group made you say a muslim prayer before you could eat?

personally, i feel the same way about saying christian prayer.

you want to pray...pray. but it shouldn't be organized prayer on my dime.

No one was making anyone say anything.

how can you be so certain?

 

[Anguille]

Radical atheists seek to abolish all religion except their own. "Religious neutral" now means anti-God. The war on American Christian traditions is not being waged by Jews or Muslims. Tolerance has become a misnomer like so many other words that have been perverted for political reasons.

Blah, blah, blah ....

 

[Douger]

Yawn.

 

[Anguille]

And who gives a shit what the delivery guy who is not even part of the community center thinks about some old people saying grace? He was not there to eat or participate in the meal just to deliver it. It seems none of the people who were there cared than grace was said before the meal only some peripheral delivery guy.

Why do you assume that everyone at that senior center is a a pushy Christian? I emphasize "pushy" because certainly not all Christians approve of this sort of thing.

 

[L.K.Eder]

And who gives a shit what the delivery guy who is not even part of the community center thinks about some old people saying grace? He was not there to eat or participate in the meal just to deliver it. It seems none of the people who were there cared than grace was said before the meal only some peripheral delivery guy.

Why do you assume that everyone at that senior center is a a pushy Christian? I emphasize "pushy" because certainly not all Christians approve of this sort of thing.

maybe they have a contest going on, the louder and "better" you pray, the more food you get.

 

[strollingbones]

no rush to tell me what the bible says about where to pray? why am i not surprised by that....i bet half of the people on here claiming to be christian have no real clue what the bible says.

 

[strollingbones]

if you are gonna thump it...at least read it

 

[Anguille]

nor can anyone make anyone not pray.....where does the bible say to pray? you so called christians might be shocked at the answer to that...of course not one of you knows where the bible says to pray...cause you only use the bible to hate....what does the bible saying about praying for the glory of man?

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

.

 

[Newby]

nor can anyone make anyone not pray.....where does the bible say to pray? you so called christians might be shocked at the answer to that...of course not one of you knows where the bible says to pray...cause you only use the bible to hate....what does the bible saying about praying for the glory of man?

What's the answer Bones? Why don't you educate those of us that 'use the Bible to hate'? And while you're at it, tell me how I personally use the 'Bible to hate' in my life since you obviously know me so well? What an insulting comment to make when you have no personal knowledge to even back it up. Your narrow minded view is disappointing.

 

[Si modo]

Congress sometimes does what it thinks it has to do to be sure to be re-elected. So far no congress person has had the courage, as far as I know, to contest that practice.

The opening prayer of Congress is a farce, just as having jurors swear on a bible is.

To YOU anguille, it is a farce, and you have the inalienable right, to keep this, as what YOU THINK, but to others it is NOT, and for them, they too have the inalienable right, to keep this, as what they think.

I'm not the only one who thinks it's a farce that our government, which is supposed to defend our right of freedom of religion, opens it's proceedings in Congress with a religious ritual. That and other things which run counter to our Constitution, such as judges who require that jurors and witnesses swear to God on a Bibleoaths of office with the phrase, "so help me God" all make a mockery of one of the basic tenets of our Constitution, that no state religion shall be established. But do they enjoy their meal after being subjected to peer pressure to conform to other people's religious requirements? That people are so pig headed and thoughtless that they think it's perfectly fine to subject other people to this sort of thing when they are about to enjoy a meal together never ceases to amaze me. That there have to be laws to prevent that sort of thing when it's is being paid for by the federal government just demonstrates how pushy some religious people are. Jillian mentions hoping her grandmother was never subjected to that. I hope that sort of thing never happens to an elderly relative of mine either. Since there now seems to be some question of just how true the story is, I can't argue that what was doen was wrong only that It seems perfectly clear to me that group prayer has no place at government sponsored events. No one is objecting to individual actions but holding an organized religious demonstration at a senior dinner is just plain rude, not to mention illegal if it takes place at a government event and no permits have been granted

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names WILL NEVER HURT ME..... Why do you feel those seniors saying grace, HURTS YOU?

Who cares if they say grace? Why can't they just say it on their own? Why do they need to make it into some sort of thing that excludes other seniors?

I don't get it? I was taught to be accommodating and respectful to the religions or nonbeliefs of others...to let them all believe what they want to believe and NOT to ever disparage them....

Talk about over sensitive!!! No one is disparaging anyone's religion if they say they prefer not to have communal prayers at a meal in which they are just as important a guest as any Christian. It's one thing if you are in someone's private home or some church dinner. Then you should just be polite and wait for the prayer to be over. But no one should be made to feel they must do that before eating food provided by tax dollars.

Why do some Christians want to spoil dinner for other people? You don't see Jews or Muslims or Buddhists or atheists or whoever thinking they have a right to subject other people to a religious ritual at these events.

The Constitution protects us from peer pressure? I did not know that.

But, I DO know that the Constitution gives us freedom of speech and freedom to practice our chosen religion (if we choose one). The Constitution also prohibits the government from establishing any religion, but not from supplying funds for food; which is what the government actually did here.