Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by freeandfun1, Apr 30, 2005.
Gandhi, Bin Laden and HAMAS
I'm not sure who I had this conversation with, could have been Said1 in pm's or another contact. I truly wonder if Ghandi would have BEEN Ghandi if the 'devil' was not Britain, but rather someone of the bin Laden ilk, such as Hitler or even the French?
Britain had a remarkable run at Empire, lord knows. Their strength was also their weakness, they 'taught' their precepts to those in power. Whether the American colonies or India. When confronted with a populace that wanted them gone, they eventually left.
Very good question and valid points.
Thanks Free. Seems to me that Britain during the Empire period tended to actually populate their areas of influence, giving them much more influence than the French with their trappers or the Spanish with their missionaries.
In the American colonies it was with those that were disconnected to the English/European system of primogenture and religious beliefs. Then the English realised the potential and set up a venture capitalist system, which included English 'rights' and 'taxes' but then failed to enforce the caveats of both. The rights were expanded greatly in the colonies, which the colonists ran with. The Brits truly failed to enforce their laws for many years-thus setting precedents that the Sons of Liberty exploited.
In India where the rule was more recent there were crossovers. They put in the foundations of democracy-which were expanded beyond the beliefs of the times, they educated many Indians in the foundations, then the Indians led by Ghandi were able to capitalize on this.
If there is US empire, it's on this model.
I also tend to believe the British were not nearly as oppressive. If you look at Singapore/Malaya, India, etc., you see that they encouraged education and freedom. This eventually lead to those educated by the English looking for their own independence and eventually gaining it - and in the latter periods of the British Empire, independence tended to be given somewhat peacefully.
Quite interesting actually.
I agree, with the interesting part. Is probably why the empire held so long...
I agree. If you visit Malaysia and Singapore and even India today, they are still pretty close to England. Not because they are dependent, but because I believe they hold a mutual respect for each other.
Yep, that's what I've noticed at least in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia.
I forgot to mention Hong Kong.
Also, if you compare Malaysia, a former British colony, with Indonesia, a country that is just across The Malacca Straits from them and a former Dutch colony, you will see starkly different living conditions, economic development, etc.
Although both nations are Muslim, both nations have bountiful natural resources and both countries speak the same language (just different dialects of Bahasa), they developed vastly differently. I have to assume it is because of their former colonial powers. The British were much better managers and in many ways, less exploitive than the Dutch. You can even see this in the fact that the Dutch do not seem to have nearly the relationship with Indonesia that Britian has with Malaysia.
American political philosopher Henry David Thoreau...i.e. Civil Disobediance..http://eserver.org/thoreau/civil.html.
Ghandi knew well that Civil Dis. would work only with society's like Britain's or the US. Democratic societies witha sense of right and wrong.. The whole thing went full circle back to the United States with the Civil Dis. practiced by Martin Luther King.. What goes around comes around.. Maybe Civil Dis. would work for the Palestinians but they have a long history now of being untrustworthy terrorists hell bent on the destruction of ths State of Israel.
That goes for all the Arab nations as well. Save Egypt, who has been payed off very well by the US, the other Arab states still consider the destruction of the Jewish state to be a given.. Under these conditions, and the Palestinians history I greatly doubt Civil Dis. will work.. Heck I think that if the Palestinians simply cease the Intifada, stop the terrorists bombings, and come to the bargaining table with Israel they will get much of what they desire. But for that to happen the Arab world will have to change its mental paradigm and accept the existence of the State of Israel.. That's a long shot for now.
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