Future of Work in America

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Wiseacre, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    Labor day - wanna talk about how the future of employment is looking? I don't think the old ways are going to work, we're going to have to adjust. That means changes to our education and training systems, revamping our tax code, and taking another look at all regulations to make sure they are cost effective.


    The trend is pretty clear - technological advances are leading to fewer and fewer jobs, especially high paying ones. And I see no reason to assume that trend will not continue, we are looking at a future with a preponderance of minimum wage jobs, or nearly so. I think we need to be working on ways to improve upward mobility, increase competition to keep prices down, and find ways to keep the standard of living rising. I know the liberals hate supply side economics, but it looks to me like the only way those things are going to occur is if costs and prices are kept as low as possible. They also love the concept of living wages, but going that route leads to higher costs and prices and a lower standard of living and the greater likelihood of inflation. And also fewer jobs, at least here in the US.
     
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  2. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Wisey.....

    ....how can we begin a discussion of the nature above, when the leaders of large segments of the population, i.e., Obama, Pelosi, et al, support the end of private property and the work ethic...e.g., the OWS slackers?

    And before one believes that I'm placing the blame entirely on those particular folks, let me recommend this piece:

    1. "A free society had to be one in which people could pursue economic opportunity with only minimal interference from the state. To do so without producing anarchy required a self-discipline that was, to Max Weber, the core of the capitalist ethic. [There cannot be a] long-term revival of American economic opportunity without some renewal of what was once understood as the work ethic—not just hard work but also a set of accompanying virtues, whose crucial role in the development and sustaining of free markets too few now recall…required a self-discipline that was, to Max Weber, the core of the capitalist ethic. “The impulse to acquisition, pursuit of gain, of money, of the greatest possible amount of money, has in itself nothing to do with capitalism,” Weber wrote in The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. “Unlimited greed for gain is not in the least identical with capitalism, and still less its spirit.” Instead, the essence of capitalism is “a rational tempering” of the impulse to accumulate wealth so as to keep a business (and ultimately the whole economy) sustainable and self-renewing, Weber wrote. It is “the pursuit of profit, and forever renewed profit, by means of continuous, rational …enterprise.”

    2. The breakup of this 300-year-old consensus on the work ethic began with the cultural protests of the 1960s, which questioned and discarded many traditional American virtues. The roots of this breakup lay in what Daniel Bell described in The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism as the rejection of traditional bourgeois qualities by late-nineteenth-century European artists and intellectuals who sought “to substitute for religion or morality an aesthetic justification of life.” By the 1960s, that modernist tendency had evolved into a credo of self-fulfillment in which “nothing is forbidden, all is to be explored,” Bell wrote. Out went the Protestant ethic’s prudence, thrift, temperance, self-discipline, and deferral of gratification. Weakened along with all these virtues that made up the American work ethic was Americans’ belief in the value of work itself. Along with “turning on” and “tuning in,” the sixties protesters also “dropped out.” As the editor of the 1973 American Work Ethic noted, “affluence, hedonism and radicalism” were turning many Americans away from work and the pursuit of career advancement…"
    Whatever Happened to the Work Ethic? by Steven Malanga, City Journal Summer 2009


    If you have the time, it is a great essay.
     
  3. Wiseacre
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    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

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    Good stuff PC, we've gone from a society where one is responsible for their own fate to one where the gov't or someone else is responsible in case things don't work out or even when you don't even try. That's gonna have to change, right now we're going the wrong way. We need more people working and less people skating.

    Other thing is, we've lost the integrity and respect you get when you have a job, whatever it is. Shouldn't matter whether you're washing dishes or digging ditches, working minimum wage or making millions, if you show up on time and do your job well then that should entitle you to some self esteem and the esteem of others. Honor and dignity have nothing to do with the size of a paycheck. Lots of people don't want to start at the bottom, well guess what, that's pretty much the way it's going to be; not many people are going to get much of a head start.
     
  4. Freemason9
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    Freemason9 Gold Member

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    Holy Crap, Political Chick. Are you actually trying to blame workers for the unraveling of the economy?

    American workers put more hours into their jobs for less inflation-adjusted pay and benefits than they have in decades. What do they get for it? Accusations of laziness from people such as you. That's disgusting. Perhaps you are the one that should join the workforce, since you apparently have no clue about it.

    As human labor is replaced by technology, unemployment will increase. Fewer aggregate hours will be required to produce demanded goods. Europe has addressed this over the decades by consequently reducing the fulltime work week. America won't do it, because we are a slave society--as American history shows, any attempts to empower workers (slaves) is met with forceful resistance by the military/police state.

    Eventually, however, even a slave economy collapses--when labor cannot earn enough money to support a capitalist economy that depends upon growth for survival, the capitalist economy must and will collapse.

    This is elementary economics, but I'm sure you will argue it and blame it all on "liberals" and Obama.
     
  5. Freemason9
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    Freemason9 Gold Member

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    No, stop blaming workers. Laziness does not cause unemployment--absense of jobs creates unemployment. Low pay creates unemployment as labor loses it spending power (thereby reducing demand, thereby reducing production requirements).

    People often work far in excess of 40 hours per week for only 40 hours of pay. This is a slave workforce, and you are blaming the slaves for inefficiencies--shame on you.
     
  6. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    1. The economy isn't unraveling...
    The economy is characterized by cycles. Recession is one facet.
    The arrogance of government can, as we have seen on more than one occasion, turned a recession into a depression.
    I'd be happy to explain same vis-a-via Harding's handling of same if you are unaware of it.



    2. There is no doubt that workers who take pride in their work are hardly a detriment.



    3. "What do they get for it?"
    Let's consider the burgeoning middle class, not counting the effects caused by the current administration.
    It is clear that you have no knowledge of the American economy.

    a. By 2001, the Census Bureau was reporting that the poor enjoyed as much or more of the indicia of comfortable modern standard of living as the middle class of thirty years before! As many or more cars, trucks, clothes dryers, and refrigerators in 2001 as the middle class in 1971!
    Reynolds, “Income and Wealth,” p. 67.

    b. Let’s be clear: the broadest and most accurate measure of living standard is real per capita consumption. That measure soared by 74% from 1980 to 2004. The Equality Of Reaganomics - Forbes

    c. A study of table 7.1 would show that between 1973 and 2004, it doubled. And between 1929 and 2004, real per capita consumption by American workers increased five fold. The fastest growth periods were 1983-1990 and 1992-2004, known as the Reagan boom.
    http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb...ce=N&AllYearsChk=YES&Update=Update&JavaBox=no




    4. And, of course, the real give-away as to what a dolt you are is here:
    "even a slave economy collapses--when labor cannot earn enough money to support"

    Almost 90% of all millionaires in the US earned their money....they did not inherit it.
    There are no slaves in the US economy....just tremendous social and economic mobility.


    5. "for less inflation-adjusted pay and benefits than they have in decades."
    Well if that is your situation, work two jobs, or start your own business....unless you actually believe the fool who said "You didn't build that."


    Write soon...you need the education.
     
  7. iamwhatiseem
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    iamwhatiseem Gold Member

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    ...or maybe we as citizens have to realize that 3000 sq ft homes, 2 new cars in the 3 car garage...4 flatscreen TV's each with it's own Blu-Ray player...2 vacations a year...etc. etc. is far fetched for a couple with regular jobs.
    We should be building homes smaller again, realize you don't need a damn TV in every room in the house, vacations are luxuries...you don't need to pay $180 a month for TV and internet...every person in the household doesn't need a smart phone...etc. etc. etc. etc.
    In other words....life isn't a collection of goods.
     
  8. Freemason9
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    Freemason9 Gold Member

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    This statement alone indicates you are either ignorant or lying--and, more than likely, you know exactly what I refer to. Contrary to authoritarian right wing propaganda, the American economic system is NOT conducive to mobility in the income strata groups, relative to European economic systems--this is a statistical fact.
     
  9. Freemason9
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    Freemason9 Gold Member

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    One in four fulltime American workers earn under $22k per year. One in five earns less than $10k.
     
  10. EdwardBaiamonte
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    EdwardBaiamonte Gold Member

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    ship 20 million illegals home and all that would change over night!! Of course though liberals won't do it becuase they want the votes and their hearts bleed for the illegals!!
     

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