France & Germany blocked Russian Donbass peace plan

[Ringo]

We know who are failing in implementing Minsk and it isn't Russia. Clearly there is no pressure on Ukraine to implement the Minsk agreement from France or Germany for fear of upsetting their US bosses who don’t want the agreement to be implemented.
And the EU is desperate for new human and natural resources to pilfer and wants to strip Ukraine clean under the current puppet government. Stability in Ukraine is simply not in their interest.
It’s almost like the West never wanted peace in the first place.

France & Germany blocked Russian Donbass peace plan – leaked cables

Moscow’s suggestion that Ukraine put an end to the bloody fighting in the east of the country by sitting down with two self-declared breakaway republics was blocked by Western nations, a new tranche of diplomatic documents shows.

www.rt.com

 

[ESay]

The best option for Ukraine would be creating a secure zone along the front line, establishing a full-fledged borderline there, forgetting about Donbass for a foreseeable future and do its best to reform the country. But this won't happen.

 

[Baron]

We know who are failing in implementing Minsk and it isn't Russia. Clearly there is no pressure on Ukraine to implement the Minsk agreement from France or Germany for fear of upsetting their US bosses who don’t want the agreement to be implemented.
And the EU is desperate for new human and natural resources to pilfer and wants to strip Ukraine clean under the current puppet government. Stability in Ukraine is simply not in their interest.
It’s almost like the West never wanted peace in the first place.

France & Germany blocked Russian Donbass peace plan – leaked cables

Moscow’s suggestion that Ukraine put an end to the bloody fighting in the east of the country by sitting down with two self-declared breakaway republics was blocked by Western nations, a new tranche of diplomatic documents shows.

www.rt.com

Germany and France shall kiss 24/7 their guy Putin in ass.
When the Jewish thief get kicks in his butt Russian Patriots will break all relations not only with France and Germany, but also with the entirely EU.

 

[Silver Cat]

The best option for Ukraine would be creating a secure zone along the front line, establishing a full-fledged borderline there, forgetting about Donbass for a foreseeable future and do its best to reform the country. But this won't happen.

It won't happen first of all because after Donbass there will be raise of separatism (and striving for reintegration with Russia) in Kharkov, Odessa, Nikolayev, Dniepr and, may be, even in Kiev and Lvov.
There is a balance of fear and greed. No more terror - greed prevails, and the economy of East and South regions of Ukraine is deeply dependent on cooperation with the Russians.
In the situation of the strategic confrontation between Europe and Russian a strong proeuropean power must terrorize South-East regions, a strong pro-Russian power must terrorize Western regions.
There could be only two non-violent scenarios: end of the EU-Russia confrontation (right now it's impossible) and fulfil of Minsk agreement, AKA federalisation of Ukraine.

 

[Ringo]

A Lithuanian court has sentenced Alexei Greychus, the organizer of the march of the "Immortal Regiment"( Immortal Regiment - Wikipedia ), accused of espionage in favor of Russia, to four years in prison.
Monuments are erected to the nazis and their accomplices, and the organizers of peaceful actions are put behind bars. European democracy..

 

[ESay]

It won't happen first of all because after Donbass there will be raise of separatism (and striving for reintegration with Russia) in Kharkov, Odessa, Nikolayev, Dniepr and, may be, even in Kiev and Lvov.
There is a balance of fear and greed. No more terror - greed prevails, and the economy of East and South regions of Ukraine is deeply dependent on cooperation with the Russians.
In the situation of the strategic confrontation between Europe and Russian a strong proeuropean power must terrorize South-East regions, a strong pro-Russian power must terrorize Western regions.
There could be only two non-violent scenarios: end of the EU-Russia confrontation (right now it's impossible) and fulfil of Minsk agreement, AKA federalisation of Ukraine.

Giving Donbass to Russia back then in 2014-15 would haven given an impulse to separatist movement in other regions of South-Eastern Ukraine. But now it is ridiculous to claim that.

What can give this impulse now is rather the current policy of 'ukrainization', without real changing of people's economic and social life. The best way to reintegrate Donbass is to show them Ukraine's story of success. But Ukraine and a story of success is an oxymoron, it seems.

 

[Siberian]

Actually, the main thing which occupies minds in Russia is not invasion to Ukraine (with obligation to feed them, keep them warm in Winter, and generally to appease always hungry Ukrainians in USSR style) but rather to be far enough when the barrel of shit (Ukraine) explodes from within.
Ukrainians managed to turn their (richest Soviet) republic into a shithole failed state with 2/3 of Soviet size of population, with industry self-destroyed, with shortage of coal and electricity to survive this winter.
If next year is not going to be the final for Ukraine then 2023 will be, and for Russia the main question now is either to agree on separate regions' multiple requests to join Russia or to seal the border and send millions of starving Ukrainian migrants to Europe.

Last time (in 17th century) Russia agreed on Ukrainan begging to join Russia it had to fight Poland to protect these bastards from genocide by Poles. Now I tend to think we will not agree until 90% of Ukrainians keep begging for 5-10 years on their knees to let them join Russia ...

 

[Siberian]

Donbass is going to be de facto Russia in a couple of years, if not formally.

It means one obvious thing - Ukraine is not going to exist soon. Because such an anti-Russian project is totally unacceptable for Russia. Putin seemed to hope to turn Ukraine into a neutral state with reintegration of pro-Russian Donbass back into Ukraine according to Minsk agrements. It was the only chance for Ukraine to exist.

But stupid Ukrainans prefer rather to turn their state into a Nazi concentration camp with all minorities suppressed, hoping for America to protect them (and suddenly not to be used by the US as cannon meat against Russia ). With natural consequent self-destruction.

So, with all efforts made by Ukraine to push Donbass away and to be increasingly anti-Russian, they managed to finally convince Russia that Ukraine is really a lethal danger, one which must be and has always been eliminated by Russia in History..

Ukrainian villagers "selyuki", which now came to power seem not to learn Rissian history well.

 

[Siberian]

It won't happen first of all because after Donbass there will be raise of separatism (and striving for reintegration with Russia) in Kharkov, Odessa, Nikolayev, Dniepr and, may be, even in Kiev and Lvov.

federalisation of Ukraine.

Federalization is not on the agenda any more. Ukraine must desintegrate by itself and separate regions will eventually join Russia as ordinary Russian regions, after their population gets fed up enough with their unfullfilled eurodream, with Europe not giving a damn about their misery and so on.

No one is going to reintegrate Ukraine back by force, Russia right now stops subsidizing Ukraine, and will quietly watch as it dies being torn to pieces by its oligarchy and of self inflicted wounds like voluntary deindustrialization (due to Euro association and cuting industrial cooperation with Russia).

And this time I don't think we need Lvov and other roguli regions, let Poland, Romania and Hungaria take them.

Novorossia will eventually join Russia, when dust settles and its people beg Russia long enough.
Maybe some West bank regions will form Ukraine. Someond still has to pay present Ukraine's debt...

 

[ESay]

There could be only two non-violent scenarios: end of the EU-Russia confrontation (right now it's impossible) and fulfil of Minsk agreement, AKA federalisation of Ukraine

That is a lie having been spread by Russian propaganda since 2015. The Minsk agreement don't stipulate federalization of Ukraine.

 

[Ringo]

That is a lie having been spread by Russian propaganda since 2015. The Minsk agreement don't stipulate federalization of Ukraine.

From the Minsk agreements:
11. Carrying out constitutional reform in Ukraine with the entry into force by the end of 2015 of the new constitution, which assumes decentralization as a key element (taking into account the peculiarities of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, agreed with representatives of these regions), as well as the adoption of permanent legislation on the special status of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions in accordance with the measures specified in note 1, until the end of 2015.

Note 1. Such measures in accordance with the Law "On the Special Procedure of Local Self-Government in Certain Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Regions" include the following:

- exemption from punishment, persecution and discrimination of persons related to the events that took place in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- the right to linguistic self-determination;

- participation of local self-government bodies in the appointment of heads of prosecutor's offices and courts in certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- an opportunity for the central executive authorities to conclude agreements with the relevant local self-government bodies on the economic, social and cultural development of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- the state supports the socio-economic development of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- assistance from the central authorities to cross-border cooperation in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions with the regions of the Russian Federation;

- creation of people's militia detachments by decision of local councils in order to maintain public order in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- the powers of deputies of local councils and officials elected in early elections appointed by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by this law cannot be terminated prematurely.

 

[ESay]

From the Minsk agreements:
11. Carrying out constitutional reform in Ukraine with the entry into force by the end of 2015 of the new constitution, which assumes decentralization as a key element (taking into account the peculiarities of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, agreed with representatives of these regions), as well as the adoption of permanent legislation on the special status of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions in accordance with the measures specified in note 1, until the end of 2015.

Note 1. Such measures in accordance with the Law "On the Special Procedure of Local Self-Government in Certain Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Regions" include the following:

- exemption from punishment, persecution and discrimination of persons related to the events that took place in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- the right to linguistic self-determination;

- participation of local self-government bodies in the appointment of heads of prosecutor's offices and courts in certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- an opportunity for the central executive authorities to conclude agreements with the relevant local self-government bodies on the economic, social and cultural development of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- the state supports the socio-economic development of certain districts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- assistance from the central authorities to cross-border cooperation in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions with the regions of the Russian Federation;

- creation of people's militia detachments by decision of local councils in order to maintain public order in certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- the powers of deputies of local councils and officials elected in early elections appointed by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by this law cannot be terminated prematurely.

So, where does it say about federalization?

 

[Ringo]

So, where does it say about federalization?

Oh, I see... Looking for definition of "is"?
And of course, you are not interested in the fact that Ukraine violates article 1 of the agreements: Ceasefire and withdrawal of troops.

 

[ESay]

Oh, I see... Looking for definition of "is"?
And of course, you are not interested in the fact that Ukraine violates article 1 of the agreements: Ceasefire and withdrawal of troops.

This article is violated by both sides. When will your mercenaries withdraw from Debaltsevo?

 

[ESay]

Oh, I see... Looking for definition of "is"?
And of course, you are not interested in the fact that Ukraine violates article 1 of the agreements: Ceasefire and withdrawal of troops.

It is not about definitions. It is about natural dishonesty of the Russians. Make a deal, then twist the words to your favor afterwards and then complain why the other side doesn't follow your narrative.

 

[Silver Cat]

It is not about definitions. It is about natural dishonesty of the Russians. Make a deal, then twist the words to your favor afterwards and then complain why the other side doesn't follow your narrative.

Yes, Russian understanding of the word "honor" - "gonor" usually translated in English as "arrogance".
But can you say, that the Russians are 'nechestniye' (from their own point of view)?
From their point of view they won a battle, they clearly demonstrated you, that you can't retake Donbass by the armed forces. Therefore they suggest you a choice - to accept new reality and stop useless deaths or not.

 

[Ringo]

Prime Minister of Ukraine Shmygal said that Ukraine wants to extend the transit agreement with Russia for another 15 years.
The head of intelligence of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine Budanov said that Russia will attack Ukraine in late January - February 2022.

I wonder - how do they combine all this in their heads? Probably because they are liars and scoundrels?
Ukrainians, be prepared for another increase in gas and communal prices during this period, because only this can restrain Putin's aggression!

 

[ESay]

Yes, Russian understanding of the word "honor" - "gonor" usually translated in English as "arrogance".
But can you say, that the Russians are 'nechestniye' (from their own point of view)?
From their point of view they won a battle, they clearly demonstrated you, that you can't retake Donbass by the armed forces. Therefore they suggest you a choice - to accept new reality and stop useless deaths or not.

Reality says only one thing - every negotiations with Russia are meaningless. Or more correctly, negotiations with them have sense only if the other part can speak with them on pair.

 

[Ringo]

Reality says only one thing - every negotiations with Russia are meaningless.

I have heard this idiotically false phrase many times, which has been diligently hammered into the heads of propaganda workers for generations...
In reality, the situation was the opposite, but after all, "everyone knows" that Russia cannot be trusted.
Pathetic western jerks...

 

[Ringo]

What if your mud hut is located next to the house of a wealthy neighbor, who can stand up for himself and has a tank in the garage against your stinking sawn-off shotgun?
Maybe live in peace with him and trade things?
But no! Shit at his door, yap over the fence, be a moron, as you Big massa from White house orders. Be Ukraine!