F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

Discussion in 'Military' started by Indofred, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    Related info on ManOnTheStreet's international partners wisdom: Saudis Join UAE in Push to Buy F-35s as Concerns About the Jet's Computer Network Grow

    On Nov. 12, 2017, Defense News reported that Saudi Arabia is now seeking entry into the F-35 club. At the 2017 Dubai Air Show, American and Emirati officials have also confirmed that the UAE is in discussions with the United States about buying as many as 24 Joint Strike Fighters. These announcements followed reports earlier in November 2017 that Germany sees the stealthy fighter jet as the “preferred choice” to replace its aging Panavia Tornados.
     
  2. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    What Monoboy doesn't understand, part of the cost of the F-35 was learning how to assemble it with the right parts and allowing room for expansion.

    Baked in Stealth in all external panels. This means that the panel can be removed and replaced and then sent into to Field Maintenance for repair without taking the bird out of service for long. The B-2 and F-22 have to be sent to the paint shop, painted with special paint and then cured for at least 3 days. There are two new birds that greatly benefit from the F-35 method and that is the new 6th gen and the B-21.

    Leaving empty spots inside of the fuselage and wings. This greatly enables it to be easily upgraded with new systems without having to modify the main assembly. The F-35 will be the first Fighter to receive the new Laser they are playing with. The B-2 and F-22 are purpose built and really don't have the room to expand like that easily.

    Having Engines that generate much more electric power than needed. This means that they can power more addons internally or externally. Hence the F-35A is progged to receive the first Fighter Laser. The EA-18G is just short of not having enough electric power to expand. Yes, you can hang all kinds of things to make it almost equal in some areas to the F-35 but the more you add, the slower, less manueverable and shorter ranged it becomes until it's just not useable. Again, the new B-21 and 6th gen fighter benefit from this.

    Sensors in the Skin. The F-22 has a few sensors but not nearly as many as the F-35. The F-35 has sensors built into it's leading, trailing and side surfaces. The B-21 and 6th gen fighter expand on that and use it's whole skin for sensors.

    The high cost of the F-35 will greatly reduce the cost of both the new 6th gen fighter and the B-21 making them many times better than the birds they replace. This is why when the B-21 is introduced into service, they will replace the B-2 one for one for the first 100 and then replace the B-1 one for one after that. At some point, the bomber fleet will be made up of only two bombers, the B-21 and B-52 (but that's another story we will get into later)

    The new 6th gen fighters will not replace the F-16 nor the F-15. They will replace the F-22 which has a very high operation cost. Nor will the 6th gen fighter, at first, replace the F-35 but that will happen later. But the rest of the world had better enjoy the F-35 since the 6th gen won't be exportable just like the F-22 isn't.

    Due to the F-35 learning curve,, the B-21 and 6th gen fighter will be here faster since they only have to expand on the systems already on the F-35 plus add a few new ones. As the F-35 matures, it becomes more deadly until it will overshadow the F-22. No, it won't dogfight any better because of the fuselage and wings but it will get other additions that you can't put on the F-22. Those systems will be already matured for the new B-21 and 6th gen fighter so the costs are lower on them per unit, cost less to fly and more. Plus the R&D costs will be much less. I predict that the F-35 is an interim fighter for the US but not for the rest of the world. And it's going to happen within 10 years.
     
  3. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    Looks like Japan, who unlike manonthestreet has actually flown F-35s and sees what they can do, is doubling down.

    Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters -...
    Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters - sources
    The sources said buying complete aircraft from the United States, at about $100 million each, will save Japan about $30 million per airframe. The purchase will add to an earlier order for 42 of the fighters, most of which are being constructed at a “final assembly and check out” plant in Japan operated by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (7011.T), the country’s leading defense contractor.

    I know manonthestreet has lost all interest in responding to this thread as actual events over time have again and again demonstrated how ridiculous all his earlier claims were, so I'm guessing we won't be treated to his explanation on how the international partners aren't all dropping out like he assured us they would.
     
  4. Manonthestreet
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    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    F-22 Raptor vs. F-35 Lightning II ; Comparing the Roles and Capabilities of the United States’ Fifth Generation Fighters
    The fighter’s elite combat role relative to the F-35 is strongly reflected in its air to air combat capabilities, with a number of leading figures in the U.S. military leadership having repeatedly stressed that the F-35 was never designed for and would struggle in an air superiority role. Former Air Force chief of staff Gen. Mark Welsh stated to this effect that the F-35 "was never designed to be the next dog fighting machine. It was designed to be the multipurpose, data-integration platform that could do all kinds of things in the air-to-ground arena.. it had an air-to-air capability, but it was not intended to be an air-superiority fighter.
     
  5. Manonthestreet
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    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

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  6. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    If the Enemy were to field true 5the gen fighters this would apply. They aren't. You can try and make it look like a duck but if it can't swim then it's not a duck. No matter how agile you make it, if you go up in smoke or have to violently manuever to avoid an unseen foe then it doesn't matter anymore just how good your bird is. Okay, you stopped half of the foes missiles from their targets. That means you just lost half your defending or attacking force. The confusion factor alone will be a downer to the rest of the pilots and mistakes will ensue. At some point, you will just bug out since you have no idea of the other defending or attack force. The Russians are very capable of jamming many different signals. Ever since the old Mig-23 Jammers that pretty well jammed everything in it's path including their own signals, they have had this capability. But the F-35, like the F-22 is capable of operating on it's own using passive systems which are just as deadly as the non passive ones. It won't be until about 2025 at least that this becomes a problem. More like 2030. By then the new birds will be rolling off the assembly line that are even better by the US. So by then, Russia becomes stealthy. With Stealth you lose agility so you just lost that advantage. But the new gear from the US takes that new stealth advantage away from you again. Playing catchup on a budget like Russia is trying to do just doesn't work.
     
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  7. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    I read the article and found too many mistakes in it. For instance, the F-35 doesn't have the capability of using the same Long Ranged Missiles that the F-22 can. Horse Feathers. It carries 4 of them internally. It carries the most recent Amraam. And can now carry the Aim-9X on short wing pylons. It probably won't carry the Aim-9X too often since it does take away some performance and stealth but it can do it. Your whole article is written by some moron that is using information from 2014 as a source. Or even earlier.
     
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  8. Manonthestreet
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    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    Funny how Japan will probably only put them on their helo carriers and alrdy are working on a true fighter.......Slow and low...still equals dead in todays fighter combat arena......
     
  9. DrainBamage
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    DrainBamage Gold Member

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    It's incredible how you are still chanting this despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary during exercises and from pilots themselves. I mean, I get it that you were clueless a few years ago when this plane was still brand new, but to stubbornly stick to your same song and dance when it keeps on dominating other aircraft takes an impressive amount of self-delusion.

    You live in a bizarro world of oppossing fighters taking no drag/range/speed penalty for the ordance, fuel tanks, and targeting pods they carry and being able to find stealth fighters that you have hilariously claimed aren't even stealthy.
     
  10. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

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    ICU before UCMe means you are dead no matter how low and slow or high and fast you are.
     

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