Exactly when did the liberal cancer reach America's shores?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

This insanity passes for political thought? Lol

as a liberal you will not be able to say exactly why you think it is insane. In fact it is the central issue of human history. The second we had freedom from liberal central government we reversed the previous 10,000 years of human history.

Why not ask Mom to help you understand?

 

[Londoner]

Compare the economy of the fifties and sixties to any other time in history. Postwar Liberalism lead to America's most rapid economic growth. Because of the New Deal and strong Labor unions, American workers were paid higher than anyone in the world. And because the American worker had a lot of money, the capitalist was forced to invest, innovate, and add jobs to capture that money. You cannot have investment without demand. Capital literally moves around the globe looking for consumers with money. During the liberal postwar years, the government enacted policies that boosted demand, then business did everything possible to capture the money sitting in middle class wallets. (Eventually business captured Washington and was granted monopolies over every major sector so that they didn't have to compete/invest/risk to capture the consumer's money. The Government and special interests team-up and turned the consumer into a captive audience, stuck with only one or two health care options in most states)

But make no mistake. Reagan was proud of the postwar economy where the middle class had a lot of spending money. Reagan trumpeted this fact in his battle against the Soviets, pointing out that American workers lived better than any working class in history, and certainly better than workers in the Soviet System. And because government-subsidies kept the cost of public universities affordable, the middle class could send their children to college. This was another fact trumpeted by Reagan, who pointed out that the lower classes in other countries did not have access to higher education. Because of the high wages, generous benefits, and affordable education/health care, the mother of an American family didn't have to leave the home and join the workforce. She was able to stay home with the kids (-the most important job of all). Even the father had more time to be with the family. For this reason, it was heyday of American conservatism, that is, higher wages and cheap education meant parents had time to raise their kids, rather than leaving them in daycare, or worse: having them raised by TV or gangs or any other latch-key solution where the parents are too busy working to raise their children.

Behind the scenes, however, something interesting was happening. Business was getting sick of paying such high wages and exorbitant benefits. And the wealthy were sick of the tax burden associated with a vibrant, well educated middle class and upward mobility. They no longer wanted the government to invest in the middle class; rather, they wanted no-bid contracts and bridges to nowhere. They wanted dirt cheap 3rd world labor. They wanted to pay pennies a day for labor and not have to worry about dumping toxin rivers - they craved the 3rd world. So they approached Reagan and quietly asked for access to all those dictator run nations that Reagan called evil. Reagan obliged. He busted unions and made it easier for business to ship jobs to places where workers lived in sewage and made pennies a day. (Every president after him, including Clinton, followed his model of helping the private sector sell the American worker down river).

Since the 80s, American wages have remained stagnant or gone down. In order to keep people consuming (so the domestic economy could stay afloat), Washington had to expand the credit for the lower classes. [This is why we all started receiving 3 credit cards a week in the 80s. The banks had to fill the gap created by the shipping of jobs overseas] We went from a pre-Reagan economy of wage-based consumption to a post-Reagan economy where it became increasingly necessary for American families to go into debt in order to keep pace. We've been on a 30 year spending spree. Morning in America was brought to you by American Express, Master Card, and Visa. Don't take my word for it, research what happened to household debt starting in the 80s. After shipping jobs to cheaper labor markets, the American worker needed more credit. Problem is, once you start fueling consumption with borrowing, it takes more and more borrowing to break even (because your debt begins to claim more and more of your earnings. Eventually, you have to harvest the last thing left with any value - your home. See George Bush 2002-2006 when the American home was turned into an ATM in order to fuel a dead economy).

How do Republicans feel about Reagan's decision to help business pursue cheap labor in 3rd world countries? How do Republicans feel about the fact that the only way those jobs are coming back is if American workers underbid 3rd world labor markets - and work for pennies a day, which won't be sufficient enough to pay a heating bill, much less rent.

How do Republicans feel about the fact that American business boosted profits by cannibalizing American Labor - and the result is that we have one group of people wealthy enough to buy government, while the other group has become a permanent underclass, some of whom are fed boogieman stories about socialism.

A country dies when a small group of interests has all the wealth and political power. And it dies when the population is mislead about who truly owns government.

The special interests which run the country tend to scream Socialism when their concentrated power over economy/politics is challenged. It's a joke. Everyone knows business owns government rather than other way around. Why do you think Eli Lilly and Goldman Sachs and Halliburton pour trillions into the political system? Why do you think they invest billions into removing congressmen who won't protect their special interests?

Reagan and his followers (Clinton among them) promised jobs - yet, right after making the promise, they quietly laid the foundation to get rid of those jobs. Why doesn't Talk Radio talk about globalization and the destruction of American jobs? Why don't Republican voters demand more of their pundits? Why do they listen to someone like Limbaugh or Hannity who never mentions that big business - the private sector - has a more loyal relationship to communist China than this country. Where do you think all of Walmart's goods are made? The private sector - the job creators - don't care about America - they have been steadily shipping jobs out of this country since Reagan.

Reagan fought the Cold War against communism, but a communist, state controlled economy ended up with all the manufacturing jobs - China, Walmart's greatest partner, and one of the biggest supporter of the Republican party. Walmart sells American flags made by a state run, dictator lead economy. Do Republicans understand that one of the major achievements of their party was to serve private profit by giving capital the mobility to get in bed with tyrannical, unfree, planned economies? Free Market? You fucking morons. Turn off talk radio. Our economy is sustained by Communist China and Terrorist Saudi Arabia. (Are Republicans really this stupid? Don't they understand that all the socialism talk is a distraction fed to them by Republicans in Washington. Please wake up. You are being lied to by government. You are given simple cliches about freedom and markets that are simplistic and absurd. We can no longer afford your ignorance)

The private sector owns government and media. They changed the laws so they could replace American jobs with 3rd world jobs. Then they used media to convince morons that a fiction called government and socialism was responsible for the country's demise.

Obama doesn't run the country. The blessed private sector owns and runs the country. If you want to change things, you have to address concentrated power wherever it lies. You have to address the rise of private wealth, which is the new Stalin.

And stop telling us about the free market. It's a myth designed for idiots who listen to Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, and FOX News. The greatest achievement of the free market was to make unfree, dictator economies more powerful by sending all the jobs to China and getting all the energy from terrorists. What do you think Reagan was doing in El Salvador? He was "fixing" the political conditions so American brands could get T-shirts made for pennies by workers who live in mud huts. Capitalism and Freedom? Are you serious? Capitalism wants cheap labor and zero environmental regulations, which comes from oppressed 3rd world dictator-run countries. We're not spreading freedom in the 3rd world. Study Reagan's relationship to Pinochet or Hussein. Study Carter's relationship to the Shaw. We take care of dictators who give us access to cheap labor and raw material. Turn off talk radio and go to college. Please. Capitalism doesn't care about freedom. Freedom is a moral externality. Capitalism cares about profit, and it has no problem creating a system of dictator run oppressed work forces in order to get the cheapest possible labor/operating costs.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Sooo, exactly what social programs are you righties whining about today...?

Obamacare for one, of course

So you think it's a good thing that the rest of us pay for freeloaders in emergency room? You think it's good that insurance companies have used insane logic to deny coverage to their clients?

 

[WillowTree]

Sooo, exactly what social programs are you righties whining about today...?

Obamacare for one, of course

IF Republicans had worked WITH Democrats, Obamacare would be a much better bill, and both parties could have shared the credit. Instead, we ended up with a watered-down bill to get it passed. I consider it better than nothing.

However, I strongly believe in Single-Payer. Anything would be better than having private insurance companies in the middle. I much prefer Uncle Sam as my middle man.

The supreme court is going to OVERTURN obamacare and there won't be a single Republican on it.. heee heee heee.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Obamacare for one, of course

IF Republicans had worked WITH Democrats, Obamacare would be a much better bill, and both parties could have shared the credit. Instead, we ended up with a watered-down bill to get it passed. I consider it better than nothing.

However, I strongly believe in Single-Payer. Anything would be better than having private insurance companies in the middle. I much prefer Uncle Sam as my middle man.

The supreme court is going to OVERTURN obamacare and there won't be a single Republican on it.. heee heee heee.

If they do, I pray that you never have a life threatening condition that your insurance company denies coverage for.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

We "righties" are most concerned by the fail of our republic, a once great, shining, new idea, into the shards and breaths of a fully socialist democracy......

-$15,560,600,000,000 and counting........

Behold,

Robert

 

[Dick Tuck]

Why are wingnuts stupid enough to believe we'd be better governed by corporations. It's still funny to me that the real Tea Party was against a government run by corporations.

 

[Dick Tuck]

We "righties" are most concerned by the fail of our republic, a once great, shining, new idea, into the shards and breaths of a fully socialist democracy......

-$15,560,600,000,000 and counting........

Behold,

Robert

How much of that debt is the result of giving tax cuts to the wealthy, financed by debt? Isn't insanity well defined as doing the same stupid thing over and over, and expecting a different result?

 

[Clementine]

Anything would be better than having private insurance companies in the middle. I much prefer Uncle Sam as my middle man.

of course as a liberal your IQ will be low but try to follow. Private companies gave us the highest standard of living in human history.Private insurance companies though don't work very well because liberals made it illegal for them to compete.

Imagine someone who jogs for fun and someone who races in life and death competition? Who would be a faster runner? Now you understand competiton and how it makes us better. Not so hard was it?

Private insurance companies don't GIVE us shit (actually, shit is what they do give us). It's the American medical profession that provides what we have.

Have you ever been "treated" by a private insurance provider? I haven't - ever.

Then don't buy insurance and pay the medical bills yourself. They won't give you a discount because you don't have insurance. Insurance companies were created to assist people with catastrophic costs in the event of a major illness or injury. Now, people expect insurance to pay for everything, from exams to contraceptives. Funny, we don't expect auto insurance to pay for oil changes and tune ups. But, auto insurance companies compete and , as a result, have gotten cheaper each year as they vie for our business. We pay for the smaller stuff and they take care of the big stuff. If government would let health insurance companies compete, we'd see the same price wars with consumers as the winners.

Insurance companies have made life easier for people who experienced accidents and illness. Yet, they somehow get blamed for the rising cost of medical care. If anything, big pharms and some hospitals took advantage of insurance because they knew they'd get paid. There was a lot of Medicare fraud in the past where doctors were padding the bills for Medicare patients. Yet, the companies take the blame.

Don't like insurance, don't get it. Pay those who give you medical care out of your own pocket and spend the rest of your life paying the bill when you have a serious illness. Or let insurance pay thousands, even millions and realize what a great return on your investment it is. Many doctors won't accept patients without insurance and yet insurance companies get the rap for all that is wrong. Medicare only pays a portion of what is owed and the hospital has to absorb the cost that Medicare won't pay. Of course, they pass it on to others who have insurance and the companies end up paying.

Before insurance companies existed, people were on their own. I think it was a good idea for people to create insurance companies and for a relatively small investment, they'd pay the big bucks when needed. Where's the downfall?

It would be nice if medical costs came down. Of course, many people get treated and never pay their bill. If those without insurance could at least pay a small amount each month toward their hospital bill, it would make a huge difference. Maybe hospitals wouldn't raise the cost of an aspirin tablet to $10 if they were getting payments each month from the thousands who owe them.

 

[Lakhota]

of course as a liberal your IQ will be low but try to follow. Private companies gave us the highest standard of living in human history.Private insurance companies though don't work very well because liberals made it illegal for them to compete.

Imagine someone who jogs for fun and someone who races in life and death competition? Who would be a faster runner? Now you understand competiton and how it makes us better. Not so hard was it?

Private insurance companies don't GIVE us shit (actually, shit is what they do give us). It's the American medical profession that provides what we have.

Have you ever been "treated" by a private insurance provider? I haven't - ever.

Then don't buy insurance and pay the medical bills yourself. They won't give you a discount because you don't have insurance. Insurance companies were created to assist people with catastrophic costs in the event of a major illness or injury. Now, people expect insurance to pay for everything, from exams to contraceptives. Funny, we don't expect auto insurance to pay for oil changes and tune ups. But, auto insurance companies compete and , as a result, have gotten cheaper each year as they vie for our business. We pay for the smaller stuff and they take care of the big stuff. If government would let health insurance companies compete, we'd see the same price wars with consumers as the winners.

Insurance companies have made life easier for people who experienced accidents and illness. Yet, they somehow get blamed for the rising cost of medical care. If anything, big pharms and some hospitals took advantage of insurance because they knew they'd get paid. There was a lot of Medicare fraud in the past where doctors were padding the bills for Medicare patients. Yet, the companies take the blame.

Don't like insurance, don't get it. Pay those who give you medical care out of your own pocket and spend the rest of your life paying the bill when you have a serious illness. Or let insurance pay thousands, even millions and realize what a great return on your investment it is. Many doctors won't accept patients without insurance and yet insurance companies get the rap for all that is wrong. Medicare only pays a portion of what is owed and the hospital has to absorb the cost that Medicare won't pay. Of course, they pass it on to others who have insurance and the companies end up paying.

Before insurance companies existed, people were on their own. I think it was a good idea for people to create insurance companies and for a relatively small investment, they'd pay the big bucks when needed. Where's the downfall?

It would be nice if medical costs came down. Of course, many people get treated and never pay their bill. If those without insurance could at least pay a small amount each month toward their hospital bill, it would make a huge difference. Maybe hospitals wouldn't raise the cost of an aspirin tablet to $10 if they were getting payments each month from the thousands who owe them.

Thanks for the insurance lesson. The uninsured must be addressed. I say universal coverage and improve on Obamacare. Both political parties should work together to FIX it...without influence from special interest groups...

Yeah, I know, not likely to happen.

 

[Too Tall]

We "righties" are most concerned by the fail of our republic, a once great, shining, new idea, into the shards and breaths of a fully socialist democracy......

-$15,560,600,000,000 and counting........

Behold,

Robert

How much of that debt is the result of giving tax cuts to the wealthy, financed by debt? Isn't insanity well defined as doing the same stupid thing over and over, and expecting a different result?

The last $5 trillion is a result of Obama spending more tax money than he got. And he continues to do the same stupid thing over and over.

Next question.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Anything would be better than having private insurance companies in the middle. I much prefer Uncle Sam as my middle man.

of course as a liberal your IQ will be low but try to follow. Private companies gave us the highest standard of living in human history.
Private insurance companies though don't work very well because liberals made it illegal for them to compete.

Imagine someone who jogs for fun and someone who races in life and death competition? Who would be a faster runner? Now you understand competiton and how it makes us better. Not so hard was it?

Any post beginning with a generality based on ignorance isn't worth reading.

if based on ignorance then please say something intelligent in support of liberalism. Of course you can't do it because as a liberal you lack the IQ for such. Liberalsim is based on feelings so attracts slow people.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Private insurance companies don't GIVE us shit

yes because liberals have made competition illegal among private insurance companies.

As a liberal you lack the IQ to understand that don't you??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Capitalism cares about profit, and it has no problem creating a system of dictator run oppressed work forces in order to get the cheapest possible labor/operating costs.

as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand, but capitalism is competitive so you have to pay the highest wage possible or lose your best workers to those who will pay the highest wage possible??

Now you know why American workers are the richest in human history, they live under the most capitlaist system in the world.

China just switched to capitalism and now there workers are getting rich too.

As a liberal, you lack the IQ to understand these basics of economics don't you?

 

[LeftofLeft]

Our founding was based on liberal principals. Just when you thought Freepers couldn't be more stupid.

Those were the good old days. Liberalism won our independence, and the conservative STFU, or moved to Canada or back to England.

Ah, the good old days. Those liberals you site believed in limited government, low taxes, capitalism, small business, individual right to bear arms. The Liberals back then even believed in school prayer and Christmas displays in local government buildings. Bring back those liberals and send those Euro-style progressives in liberals'clothing packing to Canada, Latin America, or Europe.

 

[Peach]

At the start of the nation; the Americans who had the audacity to reject a monarchy were certainly LIBERAL:

The Founding Liberals | Addicting Info

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Private insurance companies don't GIVE us shit

yes because liberals have made competition illegal among private insurance companies.

As a liberal you lack the IQ to understand that don't you??

Wrong again.

The pubs, who live in the back pocket of Big Insurance companies have made price fixing possible.

In point of fact, the Affordable Care Act forces competition.

Just one of the reasons the GObP/r are against it - it saves the consumer money but does not pad the pockets of Big Insurance.

Look it up or post proof of your position.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

At the start of the nation; the Americans who had the audacity to reject a monarchy were certainly LIBERAL:

The Founding Liberals | Addicting Info

I said the same thing at the start of this thread. If the conservative, afraid of their own shadow, had been in charge, we would all be speaking with an English accent.

Its the rw's who are peeking in our windows and demanding that we give up the fundamental right we all have to control our own bodies. Its just incredible to me that anyone is trying to control who we marry! What cowardice that is!

Those are the people who would have stayed in England while those crazy and very courageous progressive LIBERALS took their chances on tiny little boats, founded a new country and then fought for it.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Our founding was based on liberal principals. Just when you thought Freepers couldn't be more stupid.

Those were the good old days. Liberalism won our independence, and the conservative STFU, or moved to Canada or back to England.

Ah, the good old days. Those liberals you site believed in limited government, low taxes, capitalism, small business, individual right to bear arms. The Liberals back then even believed in school prayer and Christmas displays in local government buildings. Bring back those liberals and send those Euro-style progressives in liberals'clothing packing to Canada, Latin America, or Europe.

You're full of shit. You have no clue to our history. The liberals who were our founders were led by Federalists, who understood the only way to survive was through a strong central government. The limited government types like Madison changed their minds pretty damn quick when the local militias lost the Battle of Bladensburg, leading to the burning of Washington. You also might want to read Hamilton's essay on what "general welfare" means. You also might want to read the articles of incorporation on things like the Erie and C&O canals.

What our founders knew, and you're too stupid to know, is that limited liability corporations needed to be regulated, so we would not be governed on the profit motive. The fact is our economy and society suffered most when we experimented with laissez faire. What scumbags like you want is to be governed by the most wealthy corporations, with no oversight. Sorry, I don't want to go back to the pre-progressive days of near slave labor and burning rivers.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Our founding was based on liberal principals. Just when you thought Freepers couldn't be more stupid.

Those were the good old days. Liberalism won our independence, and the conservative STFU, or moved to Canada or back to England.

Ah, the good old days. Those liberals you site believed in limited government, low taxes, capitalism, small business, individual right to bear arms. The Liberals back then even believed in school prayer and Christmas displays in local government buildings. Bring back those liberals and send those Euro-style progressives in liberals'clothing packing to Canada, Latin America, or Europe.

You're full of shit. You have no clue to our history. The liberals who were our founders were led by Federalists, who understood the only way to survive was through a strong central government. The limited government types like Madison changed their minds pretty damn quick when the local militias lost the Battle of Bladensburg, leading to the burning of Washington. You also might want to read Hamilton's essay on what "general welfare" means. You also might want to read the articles of incorporation on things like the Erie and C&O canals.

What our founders knew, and you're too stupid to know, is that limited liability corporations needed to be regulated, so we would not be governed on the profit motive. The fact is our economy and society suffered most when we experimented with laissez faire. What scumbags like you want is to be governed by the most wealthy corporations, with no oversight. Sorry, I don't want to go back to the pre-progressive days of near slave labor and burning rivers.

You're personal attacks and level of ridicule would make Alinsky proud. To everyone else, your retort is pure vitriol with specious interpretations and intentions of historical events and figures. The evolution of a strong central government did not call for a break from a free market principals. Ever hear of The Industrial Revolution or are you ashamed of that, too?