Everyone should be in favor of reducing taxes on the "rich"

[sealybobo]

It's the rich lying to the poor in order to win their vote. Get you to care about abortion, gay marriage, stem cell, guns, etc. Those are just wedge issues.

Economically, you are voting out of your tax bracket.

 

[sealybobo]

And, I didn't suggest that capitalism says it will ensure equality. You asked how capitalism has failed us. I provided examples.

indeed, someone HAS to fail. Thats not a fact that capitalists like to point out when painting a rosy picture of their pet economic strategy. And, clearly, it doesn't ensure top quality anything. go to wal mart and tell me about all that top quality shit you find there.

so, yes, WE WILL take our pick and elect those who will smack a capitalist hand away from the proverbial free market bullshit cookie jar. You've had your turn. It failed. Allowing a minute portion of society have the very best while everyone else scrambles for crumbs just isn't a convincing talking point anymore.

You nailed him!!!

 

[Shogun]

What is unjust about about people paying taxes on what they purchase?

How is a progressive tax on income more/less just?

a progressive tax normalizes the spectrum of wealth while evening the layers of our class stratification. The "fair" tax (what a joke) ASSUMES that purchasing, and tax revenue, will be reflective of the same patterns we now have and does nothing more than create a greater rift between the haves and have nots. Polarized wealth is not a stabalizer. Neither are bullshit talking points about some hypothetical tax pipe dream.

 

[Bern80]

And, I didn't suggest that capitalism says it will ensure equality. You asked how capitalism has failed us. I provided examples.

indeed, someone HAS to fail. Thats not a fact that capitalists like to point out when painting a rosy picture of their pet economic strategy. And, clearly, it doesn't ensure top quality anything. go to wal mart and tell me about all that top quality shit you find there.

And I told capitalsim can't fail at something that it was never intended to provide for in the first place. Using your example of a person getting fired, laid off, whatever, it isn't capitalsims goal to ensure people that they always have a job, nor is it the goal of capitalism to find everyone a job. That is YOUR job under captialism. What a horribly evil system that requires a modicum a accountablily on the part of the individual.

I has nothing to do with liking to point it out or wanting to hide something. It's a basic fact of the system that should be fairly obvious to anyone.

so, yes, WE WILL take our pick and elect those who will smack a capitalist hand away from the proverbial free market bullshit cookie jar. You've had your turn. It failed. Allowing a minute portion of society have the very best while everyone else scrambles for crumbs just isn't a convincing talking point anymore.

So what is your choice? heavy government regulation? queues at the grocery store? capping profits? To you apparently medicority for the sake of security is a success I suppose?

 

[Bern80]

a progressive tax normalizes the spectrum of wealth while evening the layers of our class stratification. The "fair" tax (what a joke) ASSUMES that purchasing, and tax revenue, will be reflective of the same patterns we now have and does nothing more than create a greater rift between the haves and have nots. Polarized wealth is not a stabalizer. Neither are bullshit talking points about some hypothetical tax pipe dream.

That doesn't answer why it is just to take more money from a group of people that earned and 'normalize it' (see fancy term for wealth redistribution) to people that didn't.

You do understand the concept of percentages don't you? Let's pick an outrageous number like 20% sales tax. We know it wouldn't effect the rich so there's one group that won't be changing buying patterns. You are trying to convince me that $2 out of every $20 is going to be a hardship for the poor?

What is so mind boggling is that in your twisted head somehow believe that polices that absolve people of personal responsibility somehow makes for a better society.

 

[Shogun]

And I told capitalsim can't fail at something that it was never intended to provide for in the first place. Using your example of a person getting fired, laid off, whatever, it isn't capitalsims goal to ensure people that they always have a job, nor is it the goal of capitalism to find everyone a job. That is YOUR job under captialism. What a horribly evil system that requires a modicum a accountablily on the part of the individual.


Yes it CAN fail a society even if your excuse is that it was never meant to protect equality.. which, again, was not even what you asked in the first place.

This is why your side hates unions. THEY ensure that people DO keep their job despite your capitalist hardon for minimizing labor costs. UNIONS have been the stabelizer for this nation.. NOT capitalism. And, given the choice between the two, i'll stick with a US where people can earn a living without having to hop through your retarted fucking jargon excuses for profit making.

And, please, let's not make any more stupid statements about personal responsibility when the word "globalization" sits on the tip of your tongue. Your kind are not the victims here. If you don't like it, again, take your fucking ass to Dubai and go kiss some prince ass on your new little tree shaped island.



I has nothing to do with liking to point it out or wanting to hide something. It's a basic fact of the system that should be fairly obvious to anyone.

oh yes.. it has everything to do with the packaging of free market capitalism as some supposed panacea of economic wonder. You sold it for a few decades. bravo. Now here we sit with the rotten fruit of your empty promises while a minute sample of this population cries about taxes. boo hoo.



So what is your choice? heavy government regulation? queues at the grocery store? capping profits? To you apparently medicority for the sake of security is a success I suppose?



fucking right. heavy wage regulation and steep tariffs for imports. Profit taxes (oil) and tax breaks for companies whose product is actually produced in the US. I, sir, am not a pessemist when it comes to believing in what AMERICA can accomplish. Your sad little appeal to the threat of mediocrity isn't reflected in the decades we call the greatest generation. I suggest you wipe that tear and emmigrate.

 

[Shogun]

That doesn't answer why it is just to take more money from a group of people that earned and 'normalize it' (see fancy term for wealth redistribution) to people that didn't.

You do understand the concept of percentages don't you? Let's pick an outrageous number like 20% sales tax. We know it wouldn't effect the rich so there's one group that won't be changing buying patterns. You are trying to convince me that $2 out of every $20 is going to be a hardship for the poor?

It's just because this nation is not here just so an upper class has a workforce and extra caviar money. WE THE PEOPLE means more than your champaign pinky class. EARN IT? Are you fucking kidding me? WHAT DO the Paris Hiltons EARN exactly besides the silver spoon associated with having dropped from a rich vagina? And If you want to see me us the term then so be it. WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION. BOO!

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Adding any tax based on consumption will only widen the margin between classes. This is why you have to dangle your yearly probate check promise with that clusterfuck of a pipe dream you call FAIR.

Face it, dude. The sun is setting on your sour promises of economics. Facts do not reflect your jargon. enjoy your new home in Dubai.

 

[editec]

What is unjust about about people paying taxes on what they purchase?

How is driving the middle class into poverty just so the very rich can pay an even smaller share of taxes going to get us to a just outcome?

That's exactly what would happen under that system, you know.

How is a progressive tax on income more/less just?

Justice and equality are hardly the same thing. I want social justice (basically something that works to all out benefit) and you seem to just want something equal when it comes to taxes (but ONLY to taxes)

The wealthy have to pay more than the poor because the wealthy are the major benefactors of having a society that works.

Now, I know many of you folks are upset that there are poor people, and I know some of us are upset that we have public education and public roads, and public police forces and so forth, but those things serve the society better than privatizing them does, and somebody has to pay for all of it.

My goal is simply to have a society that works well.

Simplistic entirely fair, but disasterously unworkable systems are not something I think makes any sense no matter how FAIR they are, that's all.

If you want REAL perfect fairness, become a theorectical communist.

That perfectly fair system fails to work everytime, but hey! -- it IS 100% fair, isn't it?

In that system there is no government and everyone works for the benefit of all, and everyone gets what they need ...ONLY IT DOESN'T WORK!

Well the flat tax and the VAT tax, while seemingly entirely FAIR, won't work either.

There is too much disparity in both incomes and net worths for those good and fair ideas to work, amigo.

One in eight people are poor in this nation and that's bad enough.

But if we set up a FAIR taxation system like most libertopians seem to want, then more than half the nation would be living in abject poverty in one or two generations.

Why? Because your "fair" system doesn't take into account the benefits that having capital gives to those what's got it.

It's almost as though you can't recognize that a the 350 pound karate expert beating up the three year old isn't a fair fight even though neither of them are armed, or something.

 

[Bern80]

This is why your side hates unions. THEY ensure that people DO keep their job despite your capitalist hardon for minimizing labor costs. UNIONS have been the stabelizer for this nation.. NOT capitalism. And, given the choice between the two, i'll stick with a US where people can earn a living without having to hop through your retarted fucking jargon excuses for profit making.

I can't help it if you have a skewed notion of what consittutes reality in terms of what companies do with profits and how losing hurts them.

[And, please, let's not make any more stupid statements about personal responsibility when the word "globalization" sits on the tip of your tongue. Your kind are not the victims here. If you don't like it, again, take your fucking ass to Dubai and go kiss some prince ass on your new little tree shaped island.

Do I want American's to have jobs, you bet. But there is also a basic economic principle called competitive advantage. We do a ton already in this country to curtail it despite are lack of it in many areas. So let's carry out your thought. Let's tariff the shit out of Toyota's. tell me how think that will play out.

[

[fucking right. heavy wage regulation and steep tariffs for imports. Profit taxes (oil) and tax breaks for companies whose product is actually produced in the US. I, sir, am not a pessemist when it comes to believing in what AMERICA can accomplish. Your sad little appeal to the threat of mediocrity isn't reflected in the decades we call the greatest generation. I suggest you wipe that tear and emmigrate.

How do you not see how completely ass backwards your position is. You piss and moan about the plight of the poor but your solution is that everyone be poorer.

 

[Bern80]

It's just because this nation is not here just so an upper class has a workforce and extra caviar money. WE THE PEOPLE means more than your champaign pinky class. EARN IT? Are you fucking kidding me? WHAT DO the Paris Hiltons EARN exactly besides the silver spoon associated with having dropped from a rich vagina? And If you want to see me us the term then so be it. WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION. BOO!

Minor problem. Paris Hilton is a rather piss poor example of how the majoirty of the rich got that way?

[I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Adding any tax based on consumption will only widen the margin between classes. This is why you have to dangle your yearly probate check promise with that clusterfuck of a pipe dream you call FAIR.

States already tax consumption. I assume yoiu are for removing all state sales taxes then. How ever will they pay for all of their shit? Wait I know this one tax the hell out of the rich, what a wonderful incentive to self improve.

[Face it, dude. The sun is setting on your sour promises of economics. Facts do not reflect your jargon. enjoy your new home in Dubai.

Let's look at what you're promising; mediocrity for all HOORAY

 

[busara]

And I told capitalsim can't fail at something that it was never intended to provide for in the first place.

"... it is not his aim to espouse the interests of any class. He is concerned with promoting the wealth of the entire nation. And wealth, to Adam Smith, consists of the goods which all the people of society consume; note all - this is a democratic, and hence radical, philosophy of wealth. Gone is the notion of gold, treasures, kingly hoards; gone the prerogatives of merchants or farmers or working guilds. We are in the modern world where the flow of goods and services consumed by everyone constitutes the ultimate aim and end of economic life."
Heilbroner's Worldly Philosophers, about adam smith.

Smith was writing what he thought would be a system which would give wealth and well-being to everyone. people do what is in their best interest, but would still have sympathy for others and as such wouldnt deliberately hurt them (theory of moral sentiment, far too often forgotten by people)

 

[Shogun]

I can't help it if you have a skewed notion of what consittutes reality in terms of what companies do with profits and how losing hurts them.


HA! we can both talk shit, dude. I can't help if you think bullshit jargon and theoretical garbage means more to reality than the current economic situational we find ourselves in that ARE the product of your rhetorical economic talking points. See how easy it is to reply to your goofiness?


Do I want American's to have jobs, you bet. But there is also a basic economic principle called competitive advantage. We do a ton already in this country to curtail it despite are lack of it in many areas. So let's carry out your thought. Let's tariff the shit out of Toyota's. tell me how think that will play out.

I think Toyota's will no longer be able to undermine AMERICAN vehicles with prices that rely on foreighn wage labor that does not facilitate an employee standard of living like ours do. In other words, we'll make the AMERICAN market place more competitive FOR AMERICANS while we maintain a standard of living that does not have to drop to the levels of Chinese slave labor just to compete. Hear anything GOOD about Japanese employees lately? Are THEY working themselves to the fucking grave JUST to maximize profit? Isx THIS the AMERICAN DREAM you think we all want just so YOU can have extra jaguar money? Sorry charlie.




How do you not see how completely ass backwards your position is. You piss and moan about the plight of the poor but your solution is that everyone be poorer.

Funny, I say the same about your position. You piss and moan about the supposed mediocrity of an economic system that protects our standard of living DESPITE the fucking economic FACTS of the GREATEST GENERATION. The only people to get poorer in a system that normalizes wealth are those at the top who just can't get enough. Well, sir, again we are not all here just to function as your labor fodder while searching for crumbs like god's pissing on ants. Feel free to take your free market bullshit to Dubai.

 

[Bern80]

How is driving the middle class into poverty just so the very rich can pay an even smaller share of taxes going to get us to a just outcome?

That's exactly what would happen under that system, you know.

Why would it do that?

Justice and equality are hardly the same thing. I want social justice (basically something that works to all out benefit) and you seem to just want something equal when it comes to taxes (but ONLY to taxes)

The wealthy have to pay more than the poor because the wealthy are the major benefactors of having a society that works.

This is a patently false statement. Society doesn't make people wealthy. The FACT is people make themselves wealthy. The most common way people become wealthy is through self employment, which in itself is taking a big risk. If the individual begins to have success in a company it means people are demanding more of its good/service. To meet that demand they invest in their business by hiring more people and making capital investments. THAT is how most people get rich. The Paris Hilton trust fund babies are the exception, not the rule.

Now, I know many of you folks are upset that there are poor people, and I know some of us are upset that we have public education and public roads, and public police forces and so forth, but those things serve the society better than privatizing them does, and somebody has to pay for all of it.

My goal is simply to have a society that works well.

Our society already works very well. Where we differ is in the people that have not been able to make it in society and why. You believe they are by in large victims. I believe they aren't being accountable to themselves and simply haven't chosen to realize their potential.

Simplistic entirely fair, but disasterously unworkable systems are not something I think makes any sense no matter how FAIR they are, that's all.

If you want REAL perfect fairness, become a theorectical communist.

That perfectly fair system fails to work everytime, but hey! -- it IS 100% fair, isn't it?

In that system there is no government and everyone works for the benefit of all, and everyone gets what they need ...ONLY IT DOESN'T WORK!

It doesn't work because humans are pretty fast learners, they realize regardless of how hard they work they are going to yield the same reward so their is not incentive to work hard, enter medicority into society, sounds pleasant.

Well the flat tax and the VAT tax, while seemingly entirely FAIR, won't work either.

There is too much disparity in both incomes and net worths for those good and fair ideas to work, amigo.

You still haven't answered why. The only way I can see why it wouldn't is that the burden would simply be to great on the poor. I gave the overly high example of 20%. And I ask the same question of you, you honeslty beleive that $2 out of $10 to the poor is going to break them.

One in eight people are poor in this nation and that's bad enough.

But if we set up a FAIR taxation system like most libertopians seem to want, then more than half the nation would be living in abject poverty in one or two generations.

Again tell me why and/or proove it.

Why? Because your "fair" system doesn't take into account the benefits that having capital gives to those what's got it.

Enlighten me.

It's almost as though you can't recognize that a the 350 pound karate expert beating up the three year old isn't a fair fight even though neither of them are armed, or something.

Could be the dumbest analogy I've ever read.

Honestly do neither of you accont for presonal responsibility of every type? The best I can tell is either you think everyone is ding the absolute best they can and something is keeping them down or you think people should all be treated the same regardless of the level of effort they put into the system. Which is it?

 

[Shogun]

Minor problem. Paris Hilton is a rather piss poor example of how the majoirty of the rich got that way?

no, Paris Hilton is EXACTLY a prime example of how class wealth is NOT the product of some rags to riches bullshit excuse for capitalism. Dirt poor motherfuckers are not getting six figure salaries just because the "WORK HARD". The occasional individual who strike the fucking lottery is NOT an example on the value of gambling.



States already tax consumption. I assume yoiu are for removing all state sales taxes then. How ever will they pay for all of their shit? Wait I know this one tax the hell out of the rich, what a wonderful incentive to self improve.


Hey, dont crai. Had your pipe dream of free market capitalism actually worked better than a fucking flaming pinto then we wouldnt be where we are. In other words, your economic opinions have the validity of a fucking fortune cookie and the tangibility of fucking prayer.




Let's look at what you're promising; mediocrity for all HOORAY

As opposed to what you've provided? festering fucking unemployment in an age of lowered standards of living on the excuse that jobs we had 40 years ago can be replaced by wal mart checkout jobs? Hey, eat me. Love it or leave it. Dont blame me if all those HUNGRY? EAT YOUR IMPORT bumper stickers taste better than the shit soufflé you are trying to serve.

 

[Bern80]

Minor problem. Paris Hilton is a rather piss poor example of how the majoirty of the rich got that way?

no, Paris Hilton is EXACTLY a prime example of how class wealth is NOT the product of some rags to riches bullshit excuse for capitalism. Dirt poor motherfuckers are not getting six figure salaries just because the "WORK HARD". The occasional individual who strike the fucking lottery is NOT an example on the value of gambling.

I'm sorry you are factually incorrect on this one. the majority of rich people are not trust fund babies. If you think you can prove otherwise, please do so. Otherwise shut the fuck up about shit you don't know shit about.

Hey, dont crai. Had your pipe dream of free market capitalism actually worked better than a fucking flaming pinto then we wouldnt be where we are. In other words, your economic opinions have the validity of a fucking fortune cookie and the tangibility of fucking prayer.

To chicken shit to say what you really want aren;t you. You would want all state sales taxes repealed, yes or no?

[As opposed to what you've provided? festering fucking unemployment in an age of lowered standards of living on the excuse that jobs we had 40 years ago can be replaced by wal mart checkout jobs? Hey, eat me. Love it or leave it. Dont blame me if all those HUNGRY? EAT YOUR IMPORT bumper stickers taste better than the shit soufflé you are trying to serve.

Well let's see I'll be generous and say therre is maybe 8% unemployment, yeah what a colossal failure. If you can't step into reality there is no point in continuing to debate with you. To have one we have to agree on where we are first before we can debate the pros and cons of future action. What you believe to be the case is so far removed from the way things are it's laughable. How do I know? Because I make $12.00/hr. that is considered poor in this country. I know I have the ability to make more if I choose to take the risks. I have high speed internet, DVR DirecTV, rent, medical bills, just like everyone else, yet you would have a hard time arguing that I am somehow desitute.

Go look at the really really poor and tell me that most of them are that way because they are victioms and not because they more often then not make really bad choices.

 

[Shogun]

I'm sorry you are factually incorrect on this one. the majority of rich people are not trust fund babies. If you think you can prove otherwise, please do so. Otherwise shut the fuck up about shit you don't know shit about.


HA!

dude.. The late 90s net bubble is NOTHING close to an example of how wealth remains with a constant segment of the population. For real. Your retarded little non sequiters might make some heads nod at a fucking cato institute gala but here in the real world IT'S NO FUCKING MYSTERY WHY YOUR TYPE IS SO FERVENT AGAINST THE FUCKING INHERITANCE TAX.

So, take your fucking trust fund babies, business nepotism and crocodile tears the fuck to Dubai.



To chicken shit to say what you really want aren;t you. You would want all state sales taxes repealed, yes or no?



not at all. I've been clear what I want: A strong middle class that is not roasted over the fire of your bullshit economic ideology so that you can sprinkle some diamond flakes on your fucking breakfast cereal. If you want to find more than i've stated in my posts then feel free to do so.


Well let's see I'll be generous and say therre is maybe 8% unemployment, yeah what a colossal failure. If you can't step into reality there is no point in continuing to debate with you. To have one we have to agree on where we are first before we can debate the pros and cons of future action. What you believe to be the case is so far removed from the way things are it's laughable. How do I know? Because I make $12.00/hr. that is considered poor in this country. I know I have the ability to make more if I choose to take the risks. I have high speed internet, DVR DirecTV, rent, medical bills, just like everyone else, yet you would have a hard time arguing that I am somehow desitute.


Indeed, your employment numbers don't factor in the REDUCTION OF STANDARD OF LIVING WITH A HEALTHY FUCKING DOLLOP OF INFLATION so yes, it IS a colossal failure. If YOU can't take the entire fact of reality into consideration while trying to walk like a fucking tightrope walker around what everyone else without a hand in the cookie jar can see then, I agree, there is no point in coming back to collect this mud hole I've got plotted for your ass.

I assure you, your jargon, as well as trying to frame the fucking debate, is about as moving as a cheese a peanut butter sandwich on the bowels. WHAT I BELIEVE IS FAR REMOVED? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! YEA! THATS WHY THE REST OF THE FUCKING COUNTRY IS ON MY BANDWAGON HERE! Your opinons are a fucking joke. AND, clearly, a failure. Flop around like a fish on a hook all you want. The FACT remains that your bullshit economic opinion HAS failed and your defensiveness belays that you know that WE know it.


And, your 12 fucking dollar an hour job sure the fuck is impressive given the adjusted value of those wages BACK WHEN UNIONS PRESERVED A FUCKING MIDDLE CLASS, eh? If your ltimus test for poverty is cable TV then YOU, sir, are the one that has a fucking perspective issue. Not me. And, again, "working harder" is no more a guarentee of success or wealth than is buying another fucking powerball ticket. To believe otherwise is not only a bald face farce but it's disingenuous as hell.



Go look at the really really poor and tell me that most of them are that way because they are victioms and not because they more often then not make really bad choices.



yes, THEY are a victim of the society from which they are a product. But, hey, fuckem right? LET THEM EAT CAKE, RIGHT? your kind saw how that shit turned out in France too once enlightenment hit the streets. Poor people arent the only ones who make bad choices. Beyond the scope of your fucking vision EVEN WEALTHY people fuck up. The DIFFERENCE being that there is a greter cushion below THEIR ass than anyone in the ghetto. If you can't fathom this, well, have fun in Dubai.



Funny though... You backed right the fuck off the comparison between Toyota and THEIR competitiveness despite their workforce compared to ours here in the US.. Gosh, I can't IMAGINE WHY YOUD WANT TO run from that like a fucking monster chasing you through the woods!

 

[Bern80]

I'm sorry you are factually incorrect on this one. the majority of rich people are not trust fund babies. If you think you can prove otherwise, please do so. Otherwise shut the fuck up about shit you don't know shit about.


HA!

dude.. The late 90s net bubble is NOTHING close to an example of how wealth remains with a constant segment of the population. For real. Your retarded little non sequiters might make some heads nod at a fucking cato institute gala but here in the real world IT'S NO FUCKING MYSTERY WHY YOUR TYPE IS SO FERVENT AGAINST THE FUCKING INHERITANCE TAX.

So, take your fucking trust fund babies, business nepotism and crocodile tears the fuck to Dubai.



To chicken shit to say what you really want aren;t you. You would want all state sales taxes repealed, yes or no?



not at all. I've been clear what I want: A strong middle class that is not roasted over the fire of your bullshit economic ideology so that you can sprinkle some diamond flakes on your fucking breakfast cereal. If you want to find more than i've stated in my posts then feel free to do so.


Well let's see I'll be generous and say therre is maybe 8% unemployment, yeah what a colossal failure. If you can't step into reality there is no point in continuing to debate with you. To have one we have to agree on where we are first before we can debate the pros and cons of future action. What you believe to be the case is so far removed from the way things are it's laughable. How do I know? Because I make $12.00/hr. that is considered poor in this country. I know I have the ability to make more if I choose to take the risks. I have high speed internet, DVR DirecTV, rent, medical bills, just like everyone else, yet you would have a hard time arguing that I am somehow desitute.


Indeed, your employment numbers don't factor in the REDUCTION OF STANDARD OF LIVING WITH A HEALTHY FUCKING DOLLOP OF INFLATION so yes, it IS a colossal failure. If YOU can't take the entire fact of reality into consideration while trying to walk like a fucking tightrope walker around what everyone else without a hand in the cookie jar can see then, I agree, there is no point in coming back to collect this mud hole I've got plotted for your ass.

I assure you, your jargon, as well as trying to frame the fucking debate, is about as moving as a cheese a peanut butter sandwich on the bowels. WHAT I BELIEVE IS FAR REMOVED? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! YEA! THATS WHY THE REST OF THE FUCKING COUNTRY IS ON MY BANDWAGON HERE! Your opinons are a fucking joke. AND, clearly, a failure. Flop around like a fish on a hook all you want. The FACT remains that your bullshit economic opinion HAS failed and your defensiveness belays that you know that WE know it.


And, your 12 fucking dollar an hour job sure the fuck is impressive given the adjusted value of those wages BACK WHEN UNIONS PRESERVED A FUCKING MIDDLE CLASS, eh? If your ltimus test for poverty is cable TV then YOU, sir, are the one that has a fucking perspective issue. Not me. And, again, "working harder" is no more a guarentee of success or wealth than is buying another fucking powerball ticket. To believe otherwise is not only a bald face farce but it's disingenuous as hell.



Go look at the really really poor and tell me that most of them are that way because they are victioms and not because they more often then not make really bad choices.



yes, THEY are a victim of the society from which they are a product. But, hey, fuckem right? LET THEM EAT CAKE, RIGHT? your kind saw how that shit turned out in France too once enlightenment hit the streets. Poor people arent the only ones who make bad choices. Beyond the scope of your fucking vision EVEN WEALTHY people fuck up. The DIFFERENCE being that there is a greter cushion below THEIR ass than anyone in the ghetto. If you can't fathom this, well, have fun in Dubai.



Funny though... You backed right the fuck off the comparison between Toyota and THEIR competitiveness despite their workforce compared to ours here in the US.. Gosh, I can't IMAGINE WHY YOUD WANT TO run from that like a fucking monster chasing you through the woods!

Time will tell which one of us as right. I'm still waiting for evidence the proves your persective of reality btw. My proof? Look out a window dip shit.

 

[Shogun]

Time will tell which one of us as right. I'm still waiting for evidence the proves your persective of reality btw. My proof? Look out a window dip shit.

yea, time IS telling, isn't it cum guzzler?


Is America Losing At Globalization?

Free trade used to seem like a good thing for U.S. businesses and consumers. Now we're not so sure.
By Daniel Gross | NEWSWEEK
Published Aug 30, 2008
Free Trade: Is Globalization Hurting the U.S? | Newsweek Inside Business | Newsweek.com

As a result, Americans are now more inclined to see themselves as victims of globalization—rather than as beneficiaries of it. A Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll this spring found that 50 percent of respondents said free trade hurt the economy, while only 26 percent said it helped.


yea.. your "proof" is about as convincing as your economic theories while another America Auto plant closes it's doors just because YOU are too fucking stupid to admit that free trade with japan is refelctive of both nations workforces. Take your bullshit to wal mart and tell me more about how scary mediocrity is, motherfucker.

 

[gonegolfin]

You're almost correct; the past several years have seen an investment bubble, certainly. But the real problem is the federal reserve, mentioned in the last section I quoted. They created new money out of thin air, and it found it's way into some investments.

The fundamental difference is, when the fed does it, it distorts the economy. Funds are directed towards malinvestments instead of sound investments. This is the foundation of austrian economics.

I am glad you responded to this. Financial bubbles do not happen because taxes are cut for higher income earners. The previous two responders to your original post are dead wrong on this.

The root cause is, as you say, the Federal Reserve. Loose monetary policy by the Central Bank causes the mis-allocation of new capital (and all capital) which results in artificial booms, followed by a correcting bust. However, I should note that it is not the Federal Reserve "creating money out of thin air" that has caused our recent problems. Simply because they have not created a substantial amount of money out of thin air (not yet at least). Fed credit has increased from about $645 billion at the beginning of the decade to about $892 billion at present. Percentage-wise, the increase was substantially more dramatic in just the 4-year time period of 1996 -> 2000 ($422B -> $645B). It is the banks that have had the most influence on the money supply through their fractional reserve lending. Of course, this was encouraged by low artificial target interest rates (and low required reserve levels). Thus, the Fed is the root cause, but it is the banks that have been mostly responsible for the increase in money supply (in response to Fed policy).

Now we find ourselves in a situation where the banks are not lending. Meanwhile, the Fed has yet to engage in quantitative easing (they may be forced to at some point if they exhaust their balance sheet). There are real deflationary forces at work.

Brian

 

[Paulie]

Until America wakes up to the problems of the Federal Reserve and stops blaming "sides", we're screwed.

Our two main choices this year are both the exact same thing, they just wear different jerseys.