Even When Times Are Tough Keep Socialism as Your North Star, Though Building fully socialist society takes long time, we should never lose sight of it

[basquebromance]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

Socialism is great you just have to murder people until it works.

 

[Donald H]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

I don't think you can accomplish anything by cutting right to the chase and shoving it down their throats like that. First off, most of them have no real concept on what socialism or socially responsible government even means.

It's worth saying though that Biden rammed it up their rear ends when he conned them into saying that they didn't want and never did want to eliminate social security and Medicare!

Now Biden gets to run around like a mad hatter, expounding on his slamdunk.

When in fact, Marjorie and her gang of hoodlums will just turn 180 in the wind and try to say they didn't say it.

Quite a remarkable slamdunk for Biden; that and the rest of his speech. Even though we should all know it was his speech writer.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

Socialistism, Capitalistism

It's still absentee ownership. Both systems appeal only to those who want to boss everybody around instead of getting the job done.

After the French Revolution, the HeirHeads who escaped getting their swollen heads chopped off split into two factions. The Right Wing of this ancient vulture wanted to mercilessly crush any signs of rebellion from the plebeians; the predators' Left Wing devised a scam of pretending to champion the cause of the lower classes, taking over its leadership, then imposing elitist totalitarian tyranny on the suckers who had believed in "richkids on our side."

The up-and-coming Capitalists perverted their ideology by pushing hereditary power, proving that they were wannabe aristocrats all along. For its own safety, the Birth-Class Supremacists' Right Wing wisely accepted those traitors to the class the class-climbers had been born in.
Only recently has the Left Wing influenced other Capitalists to support its degenerate agenda.

 

[Doug1943]

The number of people in the world who think the entire economy should be in the hands of the government, with things manufactured and distributed according to a plan, is so close to zero as to be its equivalent.

The main problem with a state-run, non-market economy is that it is impossible to fix rational prices for things. This is known as the 'Socialist [sometimes 'Economic'] Calculation Problem'. It is irrefutable, which is why the economics department of universities in the old Soviet Union, generated the first advocates of the market. The same is true for the Economics Department at the University of Havana today. Even Fidel Castro knew that the planned economy doesn't work.

When I visited Cuba about 20 years ago, I was struck by the fact that almost everyone I talked to -- street traders, the owners of the Casas Particulares (private homes) where we stayed -- knew that the system was crap. Cuba is not North Korea, and, so long as you don't try to organize your opposition, you can say pretty much what you like, if you keep it abstract.

And the Cuban leadership knows this as well.

If the stupid people who make American foreign policy would just drop the blockade, flood Cuba with tourists, set up a massive 'cultural exchange' program (sending tens of thousands of American kids to Cuba to learn Spanish, and bringing Cuban kids here), socialism would be gone in five years, if not sooner.

Not through a bloody uprising and the return of the exiles ... but by the Cuban leadership taking the 'Chinese Road'. And once they do that, the end is inevitable.

Cuba is a beautiful country. Send some American speculators down there with fistfulls of dollars... the kind of people who'll drape their arm around the shoulder of a Cuban bureaucrat in charge of a government hotel, and say, "You know, Jose, you and I could make a shitload of dinero in a joint venture here ... I'll modernize this place, with this beaufiful beach, and we'll have more Yanquis queueing up to have a cheap two-week holiday here than you can shake a stick at."

The land is fertile, the countryside and seaside are unspoiled, the people are friendly ... there are taxis which have a little American flag attached to them! ...

And there are LOTs of vintage autos, dating back to before the 1959 revolution. Although most have had their engines replaced, if they were auctioned off to Yanqui collectors, Cuba's GNP would double in a year.

We've got to stop being held hostage to the desire of Cuban exiles for revenge. We need to approach Cuba with love ... the kind of love a lothario has for a beautiful woman. Capitalism, in a few decades, took China from one of the poorest countries in the world, to one that now has a larger economy than the US, and which will, in a decade or so, have a larger per capita income than the US. (Assuming Peter Zeihan is not right and that they don't have a demographic collapse.)

A capitalist Cuba will race into prosperity much faster. Drop the blockade ... bring capitalism to Cuba!!!

 

[Meister]

I don't think you can accomplish anything by cutting right to the chase and shoving it down their throats like that. First off, most of them have no real concept on what socialism or socially responsible government even means.

It's worth saying though that Biden rammed it up their rear ends when he conned them into saying that they didn't want and never did want to eliminate social security and Medicare!

Now Biden gets to run around like a mad hatter, expounding on his slamdunk.

When in fact, Marjorie and her gang of hoodlums will just turn 180 in the wind and try to say they didn't say it.

Quite a remarkable slamdunk for Biden; that and the rest of his speech. Even though we should all know it was his speech writer.

Want to give a list of those politicians who said they wanted to eliminate SS and medicare?
Go ahead, I'll wait for your answer.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The number of people in the world who think the entire economy should be in the hands of the government, with things manufactured and distributed according to a plan, is so close to zero as to be its equivalent.

The main problem with a state-run, non-market economy is that it is impossible to fix rational prices for things. This is known as the 'Socialist [sometimes 'Economic'] Calculation Problem'. It is irrefutable, which is why the economics department of universities in the old Soviet Union, generated the first advocates of the market. The same is true for the Economics Department at the University of Havana today. Even Fidel Castro knew that the planned economy doesn't work.

When I visited Cuba about 20 years ago, I was struck by the fact that almost everyone I talked to -- street traders, the owners of the Casas Particulares (private homes) where we stayed -- knew that the system was crap. Cuba is not North Korea, and, so long as you don't try to organize your opposition, you can say pretty much what you like, if you keep it abstract.

And the Cuban leadership knows this as well.

If the stupid people who make American foreign policy would just drop the blockade, flood Cuba with tourists, set up a massive 'cultural exchange' program (sending tens of thousands of American kids to Cuba to learn Spanish, and bringing Cuban kids here), socialism would be gone in five years, if not sooner.

Not through a bloody uprising and the return of the exiles ... but by the Cuban leadership taking the 'Chinese Road'. And once they do that, the end is inevitable.

Cuba is a beautiful country. Send some American speculators down there with fistfulls of dollars... the kind of people who'll drape their arm around the shoulder of a Cuban bureaucrat in charge of a government hotel, and say, "You know, Jose, you and I could make a shitload of dinero in a joint venture here ... I'll modernize this place, with this beaufiful beach, and we'll have more Yanquis queueing up to have a cheap two-week holiday here than you can shake a stick at."

The land is fertile, the countryside and seaside are unspoiled, the people are friendly ... there are taxis which have a little American flag attached to them! ...

And there are LOTs of vintage autos, dating back to before the 1959 revolution. Although most have had their engines replaced, if they were auctioned off to Yanqui collectors, Cuba's GNP would double in a year.

We've got to stop being held hostage to the desire of Cuban exiles for revenge. We need to approach Cuba with love ... the kind of love a lothario has for a beautiful woman. Capitalism, in a few decades, took China from one of the poorest countries in the world, to one that now has a larger economy than the US, and which will, in a decade or so, have a larger per capita income than the US. (Assuming Peter Zeihan is not right and that they don't have a demographic collapse.)

A capitalist Cuba will race into prosperity much faster. Drop the blockade ... bring capitalism to Cuba!!!

OLD SCHOOL: Manifest Destiny
PREP SCHOOL: Many Fuzzy Desktops

That's why President Monroe wanted to make it American territory in 1818, but was overruled by the anti-expansionist Deep State, which has been around since the beginning. We should have gotten it ready for statehood after driving the Spaniards out in 1898, but the hereditary ruling class has always been opposed to our Manifest Destiny.

 

[BackAgain]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

You keep contradicting yourself.

What a mindless OP.

 

[BackAgain]

Want to give a list of those politicians who said they wanted to eliminate SS and medicare?
Go ahead, I'll wait for your answer.

Even the one Senator who has said that Medicare and Social Security should be topics of conversation didn’t suggest elimination.

So, I suspect you’ll be in for a long wait on your challenge.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Socialism as our north star? Lol. It should always be relegated to the bottom of the outhouse.

 

[badger2]

Suggested reading: Haegglund, This Life: Why Mortality Makes Us Free.

 

[Doug1943]

Suggested reading: Haegglund, This Life: Why Mortality Makes Us Free.

Could you give a brief summary?

 

[Doug1943]

OLD SCHOOL: Manifest Destiny
PREP SCHOOL: Many Fuzzy Desktops

That's why President Monroe wanted to make it American territory in 1818, but was overruled by the anti-expansionist Deep State, which has been around since the beginning. We should have gotten it ready for statehood after driving the Spaniards out in 1898, but the hereditary ruling class has always been opposed to our Manifest Destiny.

Whatever were the possibilities in 1818, today one of the granite-hard guiding principles of all serious statesmen should be: STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S COUNTRIES.

Most people today have national pride, or some close equivalent. They want to be ruled by those who look like them, talk like them, have the same skin color as they do, share the same religions.

The poor Africans and the people of the Caribbean islands would be far better off, materially, if they were still ruled by the British. But they would rather live as they do, under their own rulers, than be ruled by foreigners.

So let them be. We should have learned our lessons with Iraq and Afghanistan.

[There are always exceptions to every rule. Normally, ethnic diversity means civil war, but the Swiss are an exception. Normally, people would rather live in squalor and crime than be ruled by foreigners, but the Puerto Ricans (in their majority) are an exception.]

 

[Mac-7]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

Guess what?

The government assholes that you put so much faith in are no better than the capitolists that you hate do much

You owe everything you have to an economic system that you hate

 

[Doug1943]

Guess what?

The government assholes that you put so much faith in are no better than the capitolists that you hate do much

You owe everything you have to an economic system that you hate

The difference between people running a government, and people running a business, is that if the latter make too many mistakes and don't satisfy their customers, they'll go out of business.

And most businesses do just that. (See Why Most Things Fail, by Paul Omerod. [ Why Most Things Fail - Wikipedia ] )

But when governments make mistakes -- like sending tens of thousands of young Americans to die or be horribly mutilated in stupid wars, or wasting billions of dollars in foreign aid to countries like Pakistan -- they can just say, 'Oops!' and raise taxes (either directly, or, via borrowing, by passing the problem on to our descendants).

 

[struth]

If human beings were selfless angels, capitalism would be vastly less objectionable

But we’re not angels. So we need to be socialists instead

Even When Times Are Tough, Keep Socialism as Your North Star

Achieving a fully socialist society is going to take a long time, and there’s no guarantee of victory. But we should never lose sight of the goal, because every step we take in that direction makes life better for working-class people and deepens democracy.

jacobin.com

because human beings aren’t angels is 100 percent why socialism always fails and leads to oppression, poverty and death

because capitalism recognizes we aren’t, ue successful

 

[ThisIsMe]

I don't think you can accomplish anything by cutting right to the chase and shoving it down their throats like that. First off, most of them have no real concept on what socialism or socially responsible government even means.

It's worth saying though that Biden rammed it up their rear ends when he conned them into saying that they didn't want and never did want to eliminate social security and Medicare!

Now Biden gets to run around like a mad hatter, expounding on his slamdunk.

When in fact, Marjorie and her gang of hoodlums will just turn 180 in the wind and try to say they didn't say it.

Quite a remarkable slamdunk for Biden; that and the rest of his speech. Even though we should all know it was his speech writer.

How did he con them into it? He made a statement, and the repubs told him he was wrong. Seems straightforward to me.

 

[Smokin' OP]

The number of people in the world who think the entire economy should be in the hands of the government, with things manufactured and distributed according to a plan, is so close to zero as to be its equivalent.

The main problem with a state-run, non-market economy is that it is impossible to fix rational prices for things. This is known as the 'Socialist [sometimes 'Economic'] Calculation Problem'. It is irrefutable, which is why the economics department of universities in the old Soviet Union, generated the first advocates of the market. The same is true for the Economics Department at the University of Havana today. Even Fidel Castro knew that the planned economy doesn't work.

When I visited Cuba about 20 years ago, I was struck by the fact that almost everyone I talked to -- street traders, the owners of the Casas Particulares (private homes) where we stayed -- knew that the system was crap. Cuba is not North Korea, and, so long as you don't try to organize your opposition, you can say pretty much what you like, if you keep it abstract.

And the Cuban leadership knows this as well.

If the stupid people who make American foreign policy would just drop the blockade, flood Cuba with tourists, set up a massive 'cultural exchange' program (sending tens of thousands of American kids to Cuba to learn Spanish, and bringing Cuban kids here), socialism would be gone in five years, if not sooner.

Not through a bloody uprising and the return of the exiles ... but by the Cuban leadership taking the 'Chinese Road'. And once they do that, the end is inevitable.

Cuba is a beautiful country. Send some American speculators down there with fistfulls of dollars... the kind of people who'll drape their arm around the shoulder of a Cuban bureaucrat in charge of a government hotel, and say, "You know, Jose, you and I could make a shitload of dinero in a joint venture here ... I'll modernize this place, with this beaufiful beach, and we'll have more Yanquis queueing up to have a cheap two-week holiday here than you can shake a stick at."

The land is fertile, the countryside and seaside are unspoiled, the people are friendly ... there are taxis which have a little American flag attached to them! ...

And there are LOTs of vintage autos, dating back to before the 1959 revolution. Although most have had their engines replaced, if they were auctioned off to Yanqui collectors, Cuba's GNP would double in a year.

We've got to stop being held hostage to the desire of Cuban exiles for revenge. We need to approach Cuba with love ... the kind of love a lothario has for a beautiful woman. Capitalism, in a few decades, took China from one of the poorest countries in the world, to one that now has a larger economy than the US, and which will, in a decade or so, have a larger per capita income than the US. (Assuming Peter Zeihan is not right and that they don't have a demographic collapse.)

A capitalist Cuba will race into prosperity much faster. Drop the blockade ... bring capitalism to Cuba!!!

Cuba has capitalism, just not with the US.
Obama had a decent start, but like anything that had Obama's name on it, Trump reversed.

April 17 2019
The Trump administration on Wednesday rescinded several Obama-era policies toward Cuba, while imposing tough sanctions against Venezuela and Nicaragua – as part of a new crackdown on what National Security Adviser John Bolton dubbed the “three stooges of socialism."

Bolton outlined the steps during an event in Coral Gables, Fla., honoring veterans of the United States' failed 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. Among the moves being taken against Cuba, the Trump administration is restricting non-family travel to the island and limiting the amount of remittances a person in the U.S. can send to family in Cuba to $1,000 per quarter.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The number of people in the world who think the entire economy should be in the hands of the government, with things manufactured and distributed according to a plan, is so close to zero as to be its equivalent.

The main problem with a state-run, non-market economy is that it is impossible to fix rational prices for things. This is known as the 'Socialist [sometimes 'Economic'] Calculation Problem'. It is irrefutable, which is why the economics department of universities in the old Soviet Union, generated the first advocates of the market. The same is true for the Economics Department at the University of Havana today. Even Fidel Castro knew that the planned economy doesn't work.

When I visited Cuba about 20 years ago, I was struck by the fact that almost everyone I talked to -- street traders, the owners of the Casas Particulares (private homes) where we stayed -- knew that the system was crap. Cuba is not North Korea, and, so long as you don't try to organize your opposition, you can say pretty much what you like, if you keep it abstract.

And the Cuban leadership knows this as well.

If the stupid people who make American foreign policy would just drop the blockade, flood Cuba with tourists, set up a massive 'cultural exchange' program (sending tens of thousands of American kids to Cuba to learn Spanish, and bringing Cuban kids here), socialism would be gone in five years, if not sooner.

Not through a bloody uprising and the return of the exiles ... but by the Cuban leadership taking the 'Chinese Road'. And once they do that, the end is inevitable.

Cuba is a beautiful country. Send some American speculators down there with fistfulls of dollars... the kind of people who'll drape their arm around the shoulder of a Cuban bureaucrat in charge of a government hotel, and say, "You know, Jose, you and I could make a shitload of dinero in a joint venture here ... I'll modernize this place, with this beaufiful beach, and we'll have more Yanquis queueing up to have a cheap two-week holiday here than you can shake a stick at."

The land is fertile, the countryside and seaside are unspoiled, the people are friendly ... there are taxis which have a little American flag attached to them! ...

And there are LOTs of vintage autos, dating back to before the 1959 revolution. Although most have had their engines replaced, if they were auctioned off to Yanqui collectors, Cuba's GNP would double in a year.

We've got to stop being held hostage to the desire of Cuban exiles for revenge. We need to approach Cuba with love ... the kind of love a lothario has for a beautiful woman. Capitalism, in a few decades, took China from one of the poorest countries in the world, to one that now has a larger economy than the US, and which will, in a decade or so, have a larger per capita income than the US. (Assuming Peter Zeihan is not right and that they don't have a demographic collapse.)

A capitalist Cuba will race into prosperity much faster. Drop the blockade ... bring capitalism to Cuba!!!

The biggest problem with a state run economy is there is no incentive for innovation.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Socialism is the best way to kill millions of people without firing a shot.
At the same time, it is the most efficient way to move all the money from the population into the hands of a few people who do absolutely nothing to earn it other than they have guns and armies to take it from you.

So if your goal is to kill as many people as possible and make yourself wealthy at the same time 0 Socialism is the deal for you!