Euthanasia

[syrenn]

And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"

Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.

I hope you wont die a long slow painful death then. Pray for catastrophic event.

 

[syrenn]

No, it's not. The coward's way is to give a shot to hurry dying up.

LMAO!

oh really? Could you kill someone? Give them that shot?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Pray to be conscious as long as possible and pray to have your heart open. Pray for the grace to let go when it's time.

 

[syrenn]

No, it's not. The coward's way is to give a shot to hurry dying up.

It is inhuman and cowardly to remove a respirator, food and water and allow a patient to gasp for air or starve and dehydrate for days because we lack the will to do what is best for a person living their last days on earth

Once the decision is made, there are no miracles as the patient springs to life and says..."I feel better now". It is painful for the patient and the family

An injection allows someone to die with dignity

An injection allows the family to not have to suffer watching their loved one die a natural death.

We don't all die peacefullly, like in the movies. We die how we live.

Check into hospice care. They are the best bet for helping someone die a natural death and relatively at ease.

They are going to die.... why make them suffer in pain?

 

[geauxtohell]

And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"

Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.

I hope you wont die a long slow painful death then. Pray for catastrophic event.

KG is completely ignorant of what really goes on in hospices, hospitals, and ICUs and likes to demonstrate it for the rest of us.

The "family" hasn't been removed. Rather, we know have innovations that allow us to bring people back and prolong life far beyond the point of where it was in the past.

That's a good thing, but it's a dual edged sword. This is the other side of the enlargement.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"

Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.

I hope you wont die a long slow painful death then. Pray for catastrophic event.

KG is completely ignorant of what really goes on in hospices, hospitals, and ICUs and likes to demonstrate it for the rest of us.

The "family" hasn't been removed. Rather, we know have innovations that allow us to bring people back and prolong life far beyond the point of where it was in the past.

That's a good thing, but it's a dual edged sword. This is the other side of the enlargement.

Exactly. We can keep bringing people back from the dead and prolonging their lives with extreme measures.

It's not an exact process, this living while dying.

 

[syrenn]

Bullshit! You would allow a dog or a cat the mercy of being 'put to sleep' why wouldn't you allow a human the dignity of passing away when all hope has gone? People who claim to be kind to animals yet don't hold the same concept for human misery seem to have perverted priorities.

I am with Joe on this. No way would I want to live as a dwindling vegetable. It's no good for me and the pressure it puts on family and loved ones is something I wouldn't want to be responsible for.

You think this now. I've worked with many people who were very ill and dying and who had DNR orders. They all rescinded them when push came to shove.

No. I know it now. I recently had major surgery for cancer. I lost certain internal organs which have impacted on my quality of life. I am clear now, but if cancer returns I have deemed that further treatment will not be an option. Kindly do not profess to know more about me than I know myself.

I love ya collin.

 

[Luissa]

We had an in service at work, after a few died, and our nurse said what we give some people would kill a normal person. I always wondered if that is true.
I always figured it was, especially since by the time they have reached that point they have been on so much other stuff. You should see the amount of codeine this one lady takes, along with having a fentanyl patch.
If I took the amount she does, I would probably end up the hospital or at least sleep for a few days.

It's true, but people habituate physiologically to morphine very quickly. if I took a dose of the oxycodone that Sickle Cell Patients take daily (and are perfectly lucid with) I would be knocked out cold. It doesn't really mean much to say: "would have killed a normal person" in trying to compare appropriate doses. For people that aren't opiate niave, you dose to try and control the pain level.

BTW, fentanyl is 1000X more powerful then heroin. After two months in the ER, the patient I saw in the most pain was someone withdrawing from fentanyl.

That includes the stabwounds and gunshot wounds.

People don't realize how potent that stuff is. Unless I were dying and in severe pain, I would never let someone slap that shit on me.

The lady who is taking it needs it.
I have seen a lot of sores, and the one she has on her leg from melanoma is the worst I have ever seen, and we have a few people with melanoma at work right now. It makes you never want to go out in the sun.

 

[Sky Dancer]

There is a difference between assisted suicide, euthanasia and giving a dying patient enough pain medication to allow them to die peacefully.

I know a caregiver who shot her patient because the patient asked her to. The patient was mentally ill, and physically ill and medications did not work for her.

This is wrong.

This is what some people here would do. The ones who have problem killing others.

 

[syrenn]

My grandpa was 72 and about 4 months passed the date his doctor said he'd die from cancer.

The whole time though things were decent, he was losing his bodily functions but my dad works in a hospital and I was there so we helped him with all that stuff and it wasn't a big problem. (we essentially moved in with him his last 4-6 months).

However on his last day my grandpa woke up wailing in pain, you could tell he was in total agony, my dad just kept giving him more and more and more liquid morphine and my grandpa kept taking it until he essentially fell asleep/passed out and he never woke up. So my dad basically euthanized him rather than putting him through continuous unbearable pain until he was most certainly going to die anyway that same day.

Morally, I've always been proud of what my dad did. Hopefully in the same circumstances my son does the same for me.

Good for your dad..he loved his father and did the right thing. I hope you see that.

 

[Luissa]

And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"

Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.

Watch someone die a slow death from cancer or dementia, then we will talk.
It isn't about killing them, it is about not making them suffer anymore.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And this is what happens...we've removed all sense of responsibility of family from the process of death. Not only do they no longer bear the financial burden for the most part, they don't have to provide care any more, either. And the result of that is when they DO see pain, suffering, and the advent of death, they freak out..."KILL THEM OFF KILL THEM OFF OH THE HUMANITY!"

Grow up. Dying is a part of death. You don't get to hurry it along, or make the decision for other people that it's their time.

Watch someone die a slow death from cancer or dementia, then we will talk.
It isn't about killing them, it is about not making them suffer anymore.

Kosher has a point. Some people want to keep going. They don't let go easily. Sometimes the family is ready for the patient to die before the dying person is. Then killing the patient is about the family not suffering anymore, rather than the patient.

 

[syrenn]

My grandpa was 72 and about 4 months passed the date his doctor said he'd die from cancer.

The whole time though things were decent, he was losing his bodily functions but my dad works in a hospital and I was there so we helped him with all that stuff and it wasn't a big problem. (we essentially moved in with him his last 4-6 months).

However on his last day my grandpa woke up wailing in pain, you could tell he was in total agony, my dad just kept giving him more and more and more liquid morphine and my grandpa kept taking it until he essentially fell asleep/passed out and he never woke up. So my dad basically euthanized him rather than putting him through continuous unbearable pain until he was most certainly going to die anyway that same day.

Morally, I've always been proud of what my dad did. Hopefully in the same circumstances my son does the same for me.

I would not call what your dad did euthanasia. He allowed your grandpa to die naturally and pain free. It's good hospice care.

you cant have it both ways sky....

He fed his father morphine and OD'ed him. .... that is putting him to sleep. It is euthanizing him... it is killing...it is taking a life.

He could have lived for days...screaming in pain.

 

[geauxtohell]

We had an in service at work, after a few died, and our nurse said what we give some people would kill a normal person. I always wondered if that is true.
I always figured it was, especially since by the time they have reached that point they have been on so much other stuff. You should see the amount of codeine this one lady takes, along with having a fentanyl patch.
If I took the amount she does, I would probably end up the hospital or at least sleep for a few days.

It's true, but people habituate physiologically to morphine very quickly. if I took a dose of the oxycodone that Sickle Cell Patients take daily (and are perfectly lucid with) I would be knocked out cold. It doesn't really mean much to say: "would have killed a normal person" in trying to compare appropriate doses. For people that aren't opiate niave, you dose to try and control the pain level.

BTW, fentanyl is 1000X more powerful then heroin. After two months in the ER, the patient I saw in the most pain was someone withdrawing from fentanyl.

That includes the stabwounds and gunshot wounds.

People don't realize how potent that stuff is. Unless I were dying and in severe pain, I would never let someone slap that shit on me.

The lady who is taking it needs it.
I have seen a lot of sores, and the one she has on her leg from melanoma is the worst I have ever seen, and we have a few people with melanoma at work right now. It makes you never want to go out in the sun.

It makes me want to take a picture, measurement and document every mole I have.

Melanoma is horrible because, like pancreatic cancer, it is so insidious.

Unlike pancreatic cancer, the cancerous lesion is right in front of your eyes.

 

[Sky Dancer]

My wife is going in for her one year cancer check up today. She had breast cancer last year.

 

[syrenn]

administering a lethal dose of opiates IS euthanasia. if he was hospitalized he would have been denied lethal doses of opiates no matter how much pain he was in.

First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.

Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.

First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.

Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.

We don't know that, and we don't know what instructions he had from the doctor or nurse. If the morphine orders were for PRN, (per required need), then it is up to the caregiver. No harm, no foul.

Wrong... PRN still has it limits. You are given the allowable amount for a given time period....as needed. A good deal of the time..what is given to relieve pain...is not enough to relieve the pain.

 

[Sky Dancer]

First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.

Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.

Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.

We don't know that, and we don't know what instructions he had from the doctor or nurse. If the morphine orders were for PRN, (per required need), then it is up to the caregiver. No harm, no foul.

Wrong... PRN still has it limits. You are given the allowable amount for a given time period....as needed. A good deal of the time..what is given to relieve pain...is not enough to relieve the pain.

Before you tell me I'm wrong, read the links I provided written by a Board Certified Hospice Physician.

Never mind.

 

[geauxtohell]

There is a difference between assisted suicide, euthanasia and giving a dying patient enough pain medication to allow them to die peacefully.

I know a caregiver who shot her patient because the patient asked her to. The patient was mentally ill, and physically ill and medications did not work for her.

This is wrong.

This is what some people here would do. The ones who have problem killing others.

Of course that's wrong. Outside of the sociopath nurse that intentionally OD'd about 100 old ladies that were relatively healthy, that's an extreme case. Both in using the gun and in not considering the patient's mental condition. I mean, in real life we commit people with suicidal ideations, we don't "respect their wishes".

I disagree with euthanasia. On the other hand, you have people on this board who have no frigging clue about anything who would withhold morphine from people in agony. I'll bet they've never had to listen to someone wail in agony as they are dying.

That's equally stupid. We don't have to be rigid on this issue. We can respect treating pain and understand a consequence of that might be death or the shortening of life.

The issue is never going to be clear cut. So health care providers are going to continue to have to do the best they can.

Also, any patient has the right to refuse care. So for the cavelier "no morphine" crowd. Rest assure, you can put down "NO NARCOTICS!" in writing and it will be respected and suffer your way into the great beyond.

Just stop trying to drop your fucking moral code on the rest of us who don't wish that for our families.

 

[Skull Pilot]

First of all, we don't know that a lethal dose was administered. We know he was given morphine for his pain, PRN. That is standard hospice practice. Oral morphine solution begins working quickly, usually within 15 minutes. It only lasts for 4 hours; however, so some patients may find they have to use it often.

Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.

Sorry but the description of the scenario was that of an overdose.

We don't know that, and we don't know what instructions he had from the doctor or nurse. If the morphine orders were for PRN, (per required need), then it is up to the caregiver. No harm, no foul.

Wrong... PRN still has it limits. You are given the allowable amount for a given time period....as needed. A good deal of the time..what is given to relieve pain...is not enough to relieve the pain.

A PRN order means diddly squat when one is sent home with a bottle of morphine or any other heavy duty narcotic be it in pill or liquid form.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[geauxtohell]

My wife is going in for her one year cancer check up today. She had breast cancer last year.

I wish you guys the best.