End corporate welfare!

[Big Fitz]

Farmers & Ethanol Plants are not subsidized.

Bullshit.

Only the Oil Companies get the tax break for blending ethanol with their gasoline & selling it in their pumps.

Fine. end it.

We export Ethanol & DDGs with no subsidy or tax breaks because it does not get blended here by the oil companies or sold at their pumps.

We shouldn't be wasting our time on failed products like this.

Farmers do not own gas stations so the oil company tax credit got them to sell it to their customers.

really? this is how we're going to misinterpret what I said?

Ethanol plants are working on plans to start their own fuel stations to sell their product in the USA.

But till then continue to sell to oil companies and other gas station firms that DO.

In a few short years that tax credit will no longer be needed for the oil companies to sell it for them.

Horsecrap. The product is not viable to compete with petroleum and has worse side effects, plus is being created to prevent a crisis that doesn't exist. So a bad product for a non-crisis that costs ultimately more money for worse performance.

yeah, real winner.

They will be in competition with them. Competition will mean lower prices for everyone.

The same way Apples compete with Oranges on the supermarket shelf. They may both be fruits, but neither one helps the other's market... or does much to hurt it.

 

[Big Fitz]

Huh... no subsidies for Ethanol plants?

Senate tax bill extends ethanol credit, tariff | Reuters

I found a few dozen articles talking about ending them by many liberals too of all people.

U.S. ethanol makers seek renewal of tax breaks | Reuters

But when you're addicted to Uncle Sugar's brand of payola, you just don't want the gravy train to stop.

 

[Oddball]

Ethanol production in the USA has created over 500,000 good paying jobs in the USA. Not part time minimum wage jobs. If you add up the 45 cent per gallon of ethanol tax break the oil companies get it is around $3.6 billion per year. Divide that by the 500,000 good paying jobs it created & it is about $7,000 per job. Way less than any other green job.

It damned well better, as heavily subsidized as it is.

So, what would those jobs (let alone any of the other fool "green" jobs) pay if the entire industry wasn't propped up by the taxpayer?....A lot less, if they even existed at all, I'd wager.

BTW, isn't this thread about ending corporate welfare, rather than rationalizing it?

We export ethanol that gets no subsidy or tax credit. It is viable without "corporate welfare". It gets a bad rap from everyone pointing fingers.

Hoooboie!

It's subsidized to the nines!...Why is it you think that republicans go to Iowa and kiss their asses, promising that they'll not pull the federal trough away from them?

Ethanol Subsidies, State and Federal

 

[Wry Catcher]

Now there's a pet name I haven't heard in a long time.




Yes, and so...?



Say what?

Every society has a social contract, either written (like our Constitution) or implied (as in "English common law).

In our case, the foundation of our social contract is outlined in the US constitution.

Upon that foundation all other federal laws derived.

Now you may not like that answer, but to deny it is just plain silly.

Bullshit.

The term "contract" has specific and enumerated terms, conditions and implications. For example, contracts are entered into voluntarily by all parties, have a specific time period for which they are valid (IOW they're not totally open-ended), terms and conditions for fulfillment and/or default.

The mythical "social contract" has none of these features of legitimate contracts...As I said, if it existed in actual reality, there isn't a court in the land which wouldn't nullify it as an unenforceable adhesion contract.

That's silly. The party which accepts - even tacitly - the terms of the social contract, i.e. a miliatry to protect their homeland, incurs obligations to pay taxes and obey laws other laws.

That said, 'Contract' is a noun which is simple in concept but difficult to clearly define, for "Contract" is nothing less than the whole body of applicable precedent.

 

[KissMy]

Yes there are some ethanol subsidies for small ethanol producers as a jobs creator. This covers 5% to 7% of ethanol producers. We could end those & lose that percent of the industry if that will make you happy. We can just go attack some other country to make that up. How much does Big Oil subsidies & wars cost the USA & how many jobs did they destroy?

For the largest ethanol producers who make up 94% of ethanol production & export ethanol there is no subsidies or tax breaks. Exported Ethanol gets no blender credit because it is not blended in the USA. It is an unsubsidized export that offsets our huge trade unbalance.

We have always & will always grow the same amount of #2 yellow feed corn in the USA to feed the worlds livestock. The DDGs coming out of the ethanol plants still feeds about the same amount of livestock. People saying ethanol is an energy loser are being disingenuous. They keep factoring in the energy required to grow the crop that has always been grown & they use old outdated input energy consumption numbers. Not the low energy No-Till Farming methods used today. They also do not use the low energy consumption numbers of todays modern Poet Ethanol Plants. Todays Corn Ethanol has nearly a 3:1 EROEI which is the same as Canada's Tar Sands.

 

[Oddball]

Bullshit.

The term "contract" has specific and enumerated terms, conditions and implications. For example, contracts are entered into voluntarily by all parties, have a specific time period for which they are valid (IOW they're not totally open-ended), terms and conditions for fulfillment and/or default.

The mythical "social contract" has none of these features of legitimate contracts...As I said, if it existed in actual reality, there isn't a court in the land which wouldn't nullify it as an unenforceable adhesion contract.

That's silly. The party which accepts - even tacitly - the terms of the social contract, i.e. a miliatry to protect their homeland, incurs obligations to pay taxes and obey laws other laws.

That said, 'Contract' is a noun which is simple in concept but difficult to clearly define, for "Contract" is nothing less than the whole body of applicable precedent.

The mythical "social contract" strawman is totally silly.

Contracts are legally binding instruments that are easily identified and defined in any court of law....That's why the very notion of the unicorn "social contract" is totally phony and silly.

BTW, military personnel sign actual legally binding contracts, complete with time frames for compliance, terms and conditions for fulfillment and/or default, and even a clause denoting that the contract is freely entered into, when they enlist.

 

[Too Tall]

And we DON'T heavily subsidize ethanol? Oh mergatroid! You are gullible if you think that. From farmer to fuel station, they're getting subsidized to make the process worth a damn. Ethanol is an abject failure as a fuel save for desperation for energy... which we are not.

Farmers & Ethanol Plants are not subsidized. Only the Oil Companies get the tax break for blending ethanol with their gasoline & selling it in their pumps. We export Ethanol & DDGs with no subsidy or tax breaks because it does not get blended here by the oil companies or sold at their pumps.

Farmers do not own gas stations so the oil company tax credit got them to sell it to their customers. Ethanol plants are working on plans to start their own fuel stations to sell their product in the USA. In a few short years that tax credit will no longer be needed for the oil companies to sell it for them. They will be in competition with them. Competition will mean lower prices for everyone.

Federal policies currently provide for a tariff of 54 cents a gallon on ethanol imports and a subsidy of 45 cents a gallon for blending ethanol into gasoline. Federal law mandates that oil companies use 12 billion gallons of renewable fuels such as ethanol in this year, rising to 15 billion gallons by 2015. As a result, Treasury will pay out at least $31 billion to refiners over the next five years if the blending subsidy is renewed.

End Ethanol Subsidies, Senators Say - NYTimes.com

 

[KissMy]

Federal policies currently provide for a tariff of 54 cents a gallon on ethanol imports and a subsidy of 45 cents a gallon for blending ethanol into gasoline. Federal law mandates that oil companies use 12 billion gallons of renewable fuels such as ethanol in this year, rising to 15 billion gallons by 2015. As a result, Treasury will pay out at least $31 billion to refiners over the next five years if the blending subsidy is renewed.

End Ethanol Subsidies, Senators Say - NYTimes.com

Your source says: "The ethanol mandate will rise to 36 billion gallons per year by 2022." That will take the entire US Corn Crop of 12 billion bushels annually to produce that. Guess what there will still be more food available then than there is today. Food is not lost in Ethanol production. It simply converts Corn into DDG Feed. When the industry profits it can turn out more food & ethanol with less subsidy & create more jobs.

Buying 70% of our oil from foreigners does not create a single job in this country. It cost US Jobs & drives inflation!!! That cost us major tax revenue. Even if ethanol is causing food prices to rise guess who benefits? The USA!!! We sell food to the rest of the world. It is about time we got paid for our exports instead of giving away subsidized food as we have been doing for 40 years now. We pay big-time for oil & other imports. Oil is very very cheap for the Middle East to produce, yet we pay them dearly for that oil. It is time to charge them more for food.

High food & ethanol prices is a domestic USA business. That means the money we spend on it & the money that comes in here from foreigners creates way more money & jobs than ethanol subsidies cost us. Jimmy Carters Grain embargo caused Europe to buy food from Brazil & our government to have to subsidize farmers for 40 years now. Ethanol has ended most of those subsidies. If you want to go back to subsidized food & farming then end ethanol. If you want to be retarded like Carter & keep throwing away $1 Trillion a year on foreign oil so you can pound your chest & say we ended corporate welfare then go ahead & shoot your country in the foot.