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Egyptian protesters pull down Israel embassy wall

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Trajan, Sep 11, 2011.

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Sep 11, 2011 #1

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Trajan conscientia mille testes

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2 former bitter enemies, for what? 46 years now? Peace...which may beon the back burner now.

This is a harbinger. right here we discussed the issues facing the MB, one of which being how to make the army appear antithetical to Egyptian democracy ( whatever that may be), the MB and its adherents wants to be seen as the as the sole grp. faction etc. that would guarantee democracy and muslim values together. of course the 'democracy' part would disappear later but hey,whats that right?

the mission right now, is to embarrass the army, delegitimatize them, note the police stood aside and the Army was forced to intervene, the bad guys stopping honest dissent and well deserved thrashing of the jews.

Egyptian protesters pull down Israel embassy wall

Egyptian protesters pull down Israel embassy wall | Reuters

and

Egyptian protesters raid Israeli embassy as ambassador and family flee the country

Cairo protests: Egyptians raid Israeli embassy as ambassador and family flee | Mail Online
Sep 12, 2011 #2

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Former President of Spain Jose Maria Aznar: If Israel Goes Down, We All Go Down

We cannot forget that Israel is the Wests best ally in a turbulent region. The state of Israel was created by a decision of the UN. Its legitimacy, therefore, should not be in question. Israel is a nation with deeply rooted democratic institutions. It is a dynamic and open society that has repeatedly excelled in culture, science and technology. Owing to its roots, history, and values, Israel is a fully fledged Western nation. Indeed, it is a normal Western nation, but one confronted by abnormal circumstances.
What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israels right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israels legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israels vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude.

Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined. The real threats to regional stability, however, are to be found in the rise of a radical Islamism which sees Israels destruction as the fulfillment of its religious destiny and, simultaneously in the case of Iran, as an expression of its ambitions for regional hegemony. Both phenomena are threats that affect not only Israel, but also the wider West and the world at large.

Israel is our first line of defense in a turbulent region that is constantly at risk of descending into chaos; a region vital to our energy security owing to our overdependence on Middle Eastern oil; a region that forms the front line in the fight against extremism. If Israel goes down, we all go down. To defend Israels right to exist in peace, within secure borders, requires a degree of moral and strategic clarity that too often seems to have disappeared in Europe. The United States shows worrying signs of heading in the same direction.

The West is going through a period of confusion over the shape of the worlds future. To a great extent, this confusion is caused by a kind of masochistic self-doubt over our own identity; by the rule of political correctness; by a multiculturalism that forces us to our knees before others; and by a secularism which, irony of ironies, blinds us even when we are confronted by jihadis promoting the most fanatical incarnation of their faith. To abandon Israel to its fate, at this moment of all moments, would merely serve to illustrate how far we have sunk and how inexorable our decline now appears.

This cannot be allowed to happen. Motivated by the need to rebuild our own Western values, expressing deep concern about the wave of aggression against Israel, and mindful that Israels strength is our strength and Israels weakness is our weakness, I have decided to promote a new Friends of Israel initiative with the help of some prominent people, including David Trimble, Andrew Roberts, John Bolton, Alejandro Toledo (the former President of Peru), Marcello Pera (philosopher and former President of the Italian Senate), Fiamma Nirenstein (the Italian author and politician), the financier Robert Agostinelli and the Catholic intellectual George Weigel.

What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israels right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israels legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israels vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude. Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined.

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Sep 12, 2011 #3

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The Arab spring will morph into the Islamic Winter. The Egyptian military is in charge by a small string, soon the Muslim Brotherhood will be in power. ASSSad might be a terrorist supporter and brutal dictator, but he is not running a theocracy. When he falls expect an Al Qaeda Sharia government to come. Libya will be ruled by Al Qaeda Islamist. Tunisia went from terrorist fighting regime to terrorist run regime. Turkey is taking an Islamist turn. Iraq is a breathe away from a theocracy. Jordan has a Palestinian majority. It's only time before the King falls. Saudi Arabia WILL go down in flames. Pakistan is led by religious radicals. It's a tough neighborhood about to be led by lslamic radicals!
Sep 12, 2011 #4

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JStone said: ↑

Former President of Spain Jose Maria Aznar: If Israel Goes Down, We All Go Down

We cannot forget that Israel is the Wests best ally in a turbulent region. The state of Israel was created by a decision of the UN. Its legitimacy, therefore, should not be in question. Israel is a nation with deeply rooted democratic institutions. It is a dynamic and open society that has repeatedly excelled in culture, science and technology. Owing to its roots, history, and values, Israel is a fully fledged Western nation. Indeed, it is a normal Western nation, but one confronted by abnormal circumstances.
What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israels right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israels legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israels vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude.

Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined. The real threats to regional stability, however, are to be found in the rise of a radical Islamism which sees Israels destruction as the fulfillment of its religious destiny and, simultaneously in the case of Iran, as an expression of its ambitions for regional hegemony. Both phenomena are threats that affect not only Israel, but also the wider West and the world at large.

Israel is our first line of defense in a turbulent region that is constantly at risk of descending into chaos; a region vital to our energy security owing to our overdependence on Middle Eastern oil; a region that forms the front line in the fight against extremism. If Israel goes down, we all go down. To defend Israels right to exist in peace, within secure borders, requires a degree of moral and strategic clarity that too often seems to have disappeared in Europe. The United States shows worrying signs of heading in the same direction.

The West is going through a period of confusion over the shape of the worlds future. To a great extent, this confusion is caused by a kind of masochistic self-doubt over our own identity; by the rule of political correctness; by a multiculturalism that forces us to our knees before others; and by a secularism which, irony of ironies, blinds us even when we are confronted by jihadis promoting the most fanatical incarnation of their faith. To abandon Israel to its fate, at this moment of all moments, would merely serve to illustrate how far we have sunk and how inexorable our decline now appears.

This cannot be allowed to happen. Motivated by the need to rebuild our own Western values, expressing deep concern about the wave of aggression against Israel, and mindful that Israels strength is our strength and Israels weakness is our weakness, I have decided to promote a new Friends of Israel initiative with the help of some prominent people, including David Trimble, Andrew Roberts, John Bolton, Alejandro Toledo (the former President of Peru), Marcello Pera (philosopher and former President of the Italian Senate), Fiamma Nirenstein (the Italian author and politician), the financier Robert Agostinelli and the Catholic intellectual George Weigel.

What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israels right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israels legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israels vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude. Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined.

Republicans Abroad
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Well how did we ever exists before Israel? Oh yeah! Colonialization and mercantilism
Sep 12, 2011 #5

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Moonglow said: ↑

JStone said: ↑

Former President of Spain Jose Maria Aznar: If Israel Goes Down, We All Go Down

We cannot forget that Israel is the West’s best ally in a turbulent region. The state of Israel was created by a decision of the UN. Its legitimacy, therefore, should not be in question. Israel is a nation with deeply rooted democratic institutions. It is a dynamic and open society that has repeatedly excelled in culture, science and technology. Owing to its roots, history, and values, Israel is a fully fledged Western nation. Indeed, it is a normal Western nation, but one confronted by abnormal circumstances.
What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israel’s legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israel’s vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude.

Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined. The real threats to regional stability, however, are to be found in the rise of a radical Islamism which sees Israel’s destruction as the fulfillment of its religious destiny and, simultaneously in the case of Iran, as an expression of its ambitions for regional hegemony. Both phenomena are threats that affect not only Israel, but also the wider West and the world at large.

Israel is our first line of defense in a turbulent region that is constantly at risk of descending into chaos; a region vital to our energy security owing to our overdependence on Middle Eastern oil; a region that forms the front line in the fight against extremism. If Israel goes down, we all go down. To defend Israel’s right to exist in peace, within secure borders, requires a degree of moral and strategic clarity that too often seems to have disappeared in Europe. The United States shows worrying signs of heading in the same direction.

The West is going through a period of confusion over the shape of the world’s future. To a great extent, this confusion is caused by a kind of masochistic self-doubt over our own identity; by the rule of political correctness; by a multiculturalism that forces us to our knees before others; and by a secularism which, irony of ironies, blinds us even when we are confronted by jihadis promoting the most fanatical incarnation of their faith. To abandon Israel to its fate, at this moment of all moments, would merely serve to illustrate how far we have sunk and how inexorable our decline now appears.

This cannot be allowed to happen. Motivated by the need to rebuild our own Western values, expressing deep concern about the wave of aggression against Israel, and mindful that Israel’s strength is our strength and Israel’s weakness is our weakness, I have decided to promote a new Friends of Israel initiative with the help of some prominent people, including David Trimble, Andrew Roberts, John Bolton, Alejandro Toledo (the former President of Peru), Marcello Pera (philosopher and former President of the Italian Senate), Fiamma Nirenstein (the Italian author and politician), the financier Robert Agostinelli and the Catholic intellectual George Weigel.

What binds us, however, is our unyielding support for Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself. For Western countries to side with those who question Israel’s legitimacy, for them to play games in international bodies with Israel’s vital security issues, for them to appease those who oppose Western values rather than robustly to stand up in defense of those values, is not only a grave moral mistake, but a strategic error of the first magnitude. Israel is a fundamental part of the West. The West is what it is thanks to its Judeo-Christian roots. If the Jewish element of those roots is upturned and Israel is lost, then we are lost too. Whether we like it or not, our fate is inextricably intertwined.

Republicans Abroad
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Well how did we ever exists before Israel? Oh yeah! Colonialization and mercantilism
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You're severely uneducated and unaware 3000 years ago Jews created the Torah whose 10 Commandments and other laws and ethics form the basis of Western civilization, today.

Poverty sucks for you, eh?

Now, you're just a little less stupid
- Thank You! x 1
Sep 12, 2011 #6

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Moonglow Diamond Member

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JStone said: ↑

Moonglow said: ↑

JStone said: ↑

Former President of Spain Jose Maria Aznar: If Israel Goes Down, We All Go Down
Click to expand...

Well how did we ever exists before Israel? Oh yeah! Colonialization and mercantilism
Click to expand...

You're severely uneducated and unaware 3000 years ago Jews created the Torah whose 10 Commandments and other laws and ethics form the basis of Western civilization, today.

Poverty sucks for you, eh?

Now, you're just a little less stupid
Click to expand...

actually they stole it from hammurabi
Sep 12, 2011 #7

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JStone BANNED

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Moonglow said: ↑

JStone said: ↑

Moonglow said: ↑

Well how did we ever exists before Israel? Oh yeah! Colonialization and mercantilism
Click to expand...

You're severely uneducated and unaware 3000 years ago Jews created the Torah whose 10 Commandments and other laws and ethics form the basis of Western civilization, today.

Poverty sucks for you, eh?

Now, you're just a little less stupid
Click to expand...

actually they stole it from hammurabi
Click to expand...

Er, wrong, dimwit. Hammurabi wrote mostly civil law regarding business and real estate transactions.

You really are uneducated
Sep 12, 2011 #8

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JStone said: ↑

Moonglow said: ↑

JStone said: ↑

You're severely uneducated and unaware 3000 years ago Jews created the Torah whose 10 Commandments and other laws and ethics form the basis of Western civilization, today.

Poverty sucks for you, eh?

Now, you're just a little less stupid
Click to expand...

actually they stole it from hammurabi
Click to expand...

Er, wrong, dimwit. Hammurabi wrote mostly civil law regarding business and real estate transactions.

You really are uneducated
Click to expand...

It is claimed (erroneously) that the 10 Commandments form the basis of American Law. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nowhere in the Constitution or any legal statute are the 10 Commandments mentioned. How many of the Ten Commandments actually reflect U.S. laws? Only three. Statutes of American Justice do indeed have laws against murder, stealing and perjury, but that's where the similarity ends.
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Ten Commandments
Sep 12, 2011 #9

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JStone BANNED

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Moonglow said: ↑

JStone said: ↑

Moonglow said: ↑

actually they stole it from hammurabi
Click to expand...

Er, wrong, dimwit. Hammurabi wrote mostly civil law regarding business and real estate transactions.

You really are uneducated
Click to expand...

It is claimed (erroneously) that the 10 Commandments form the basis of American Law. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nowhere in the Constitution or any legal statute are the 10 Commandments mentioned. How many of the Ten Commandments actually reflect U.S. laws? Only three. Statutes of American Justice do indeed have laws against murder, stealing and perjury, but that's where the similarity ends.
Click to expand...

Ten Commandments
Click to expand...

Bogus website, poor dimwit. Sucks being you, right?

Historian Robert Chadwick...

In the Old Babylonian Period, when kings first took power, they usually issued something called a mesharum act, which was the king's proclamation of justice to the population. The mesharum act covered a number of things such a canceling debts and obligations, freeing debt slaves, and fixing the prices of commodities to ensure economic stability. Hammurabi made such a mesharum act in the second year of his reign. Thus, the Laws of Hammurabi are not a true Code.or codification of laws but a collection of royal decisions and verdicts.made by the king.
Click to expand...

Albert Hyma, PhD, Professor of History, University of Michigan...

The Hebrews made greater contributions to the development of Western civilization than did the large empires by giving to the Western world their superb literature, their enlightened code of laws and their unique religion. The prophetic and poetical books show and overwhelming superiority over all similar productions of the ancient world including India and China. There is certainly nothing in the literature of Egypt and Babylonia that can at all be compared with the Book of Psalms and the prophetical books by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel.

Even the celebrated code of Hammurabi is but a simple and crude document when studied side by side with the much more extensive code of Moses found in the first five books of the Old Testament. Although Hammurabi's code is almost 600 years older than that of Moses, there is no need of drawing the conclusion that for this reason Moses must have copied the older code...

Hebrew Laws Are Superior: The code of Moses places high value on human life. It demands proper care of the poor and of strangers, something neglected by the Babylonians.

The literature of England, Germany, France, Spain and Italy cannot always be understood without a knowledge of the Old Testament. Indeed, the whole history of the Western world bears the imprint of the Hebrew mind and there are thousands of instances to show how vast is the power of the Hebrew religion. Surpassing by far that of Greek mythology, it has continued to shed its light upon the West. There was a time when New England was dominated by the code of Moses, and, surely, the student of history in America cannot shut his eyes to the influence of the Hebrews
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Sep 12, 2011 #10

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Moonglow said: ↑

JStone said: ↑

Moonglow said: ↑

actually they stole it from hammurabi
Click to expand...

Er, wrong, dimwit. Hammurabi wrote mostly civil law regarding business and real estate transactions.

You really are uneducated
Click to expand...

It is claimed (erroneously) that the 10 Commandments form the basis of American Law. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nowhere in the Constitution or any legal statute are the 10 Commandments mentioned. How many of the Ten Commandments actually reflect U.S. laws? Only three. Statutes of American Justice do indeed have laws against murder, stealing and perjury, but that's where the similarity ends.
Click to expand...

Constitutional Rights Foundation: The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law
The Ten Commandments and many other elements of Hebrew law provided a major source for the development of western legal systems and democracy.

Three thousand years ago, the ancient Hebrew people lived in the Near East in an area called Canaan. This ancient people developed the idea of monotheism, the belief in one god. They believed that their god gave them laws to regulate their society, their religious practices, and their relationships with other people.

Conquered by the neo-Babylonians and later by the Romans, the Hebrews eventually became a scattered people, living in many countries under different legal systems. But they continued to develop their own law and tried to follow it even in foreign lands. Their law was based on the Ten Commandments and other sacred writings, which today we find in the Hebrew Bible. In developing their law, they sometimes borrowed legal concepts from other civilizations as well as passing on their own ideas. The Jewish law that developed influenced Roman law, English law, and our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

Equality
The Torah teaches that God created Adam, the first human, as the father of all peoples. Thus, all humans are born equal and should be treated equally by the law. This is today recognized as a major principle of law.

The Rule of Law
The Torah does not recognize the idea of kings ruling by divine right. According to tradition, the Hebrew people made Saul their first king in 1030 B.C., when enemy nations threatened their survival. But Saul and the other Hebrew kings that followed him were never considered to be gods or high priests with the power to interpret God’s will.

Hebrew kings, like everyone else, had to obey the Ten Commandments and the other laws of the Torah. The written Torah, not the whims of kings, was considered the law of the land.

Majority Rule and Democracy
The Hebrew concept of majority rule comes from the Torah’s command to “follow the multitude.” The majority decided disputes among scholars on the meaning of God’s laws, the court decisions of judges, and the local acts of Jewish communities.

Since Jews lived under the rule of foreign nations after A.D. 70, they practiced only limited forms of self-government. By the 12th century, however, many countries permitted Jewish communities to elect local town councils, the “Seven Good Men of the City.” These councils, chosen by the majority of adult males, supervised religious, economic, educational, and charity activities. The entire community often decided important questions at a town meeting.

Freedom of Religion and Speech
Being born a Jew makes one obligated to follow the Torah. But Jews must do this freely. Non-Jews have the freedom to practice their own religions. Moreover, unlike most other religions, Judaism does not actively seek converts.

A tradition of free speech existed among the Hebrews. Hebrew prophets openly spoke out against their kings and the people for failing to follow the Torah. During the long history of disputes over the meaning of the Torah, no one was tried for heresy (going against religious doctrine). Also, while the majority decided matters of law, the minority had a chance to be heard and their opinions were often recorded.

Fair Trial
In Judea, the court system had three levels. The highest court was the Great Sandedrin, which had 71 judges. Lesser courts with 23 judges dealt with death penalty cases. Lower courts with three judges handled most civil and criminal matters. Most of these courts stopped functioning after the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. In countries where they were permitted to operate, however, three-judge courts continued to hand out justice in Jewish communities.

Many parts of the Torah, Talmud, and the codes of law that followed described due process procedures to ensure fair trials. Anyone accused of a crime had the right of bail except in death-penalty cases. Traditional Jewish courts had no trained lawyers arguing cases. The prosecutor was either the victim himself or, if he had been killed, a relative (“blood-avenger&#8221 or someone appointed by the court. The accused could defend himself or ask another to plead for him. Evidence included documents and the testimony of witnesses. The consistent testimony of two male witnesses to the crime was necessary to convict the accused. The judges closely cross-examined witnesses in the presence of the accused. Circumstantial evidence alone was never enough to find someone guilty. Witnesses who broke the commandment forbidding one to “bear false witness” faced the same penalty that the accused would have suffered. The accused had an absolute right against self-incrimination and was not permitted to make statements harmful to himself. Likewise, confessions were not admissible evidence in court. There was no jury. The judges deliberated with the accused looking on. The youngest judge spoke his opinion first in order to avoid being influenced by the senior judges. The judges then decided the verdict by majority vote

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-righ...the-hebrews-and-the-foundation-of-western-law
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