Does GDP growth mean Federal Tax revenue growth?

[kaz]

who says tax cuts aren't cuts unless they're net cuts?

Depends on the discussion. I was talking about economic impact though, so since you were responding to that, they aren't cuts unless they are net cuts

There is no discernible positive economic impact of tax cuts like the kind you support.

You made me laugh. LOL. Socialists ...

 

[kaz]

If you're intellectually dishonest, I'm putting you in my don't take seriously category. I'd show you quotes, but you're LYING. You know Democrats said this

No, I don't know they said this. Why don't you get off your fat, lazy ass and prove it?! What you do is construct straw men, then argue those straw men...and then you get defensive when your bullshit is called out.

GET. OVER. YOURSELF

You just said you didn't know leftists were predicting Trump would be globally catastrophic and you're calling me lazy?

I'll tell you what. For amusement, I'll do your research for you. One condition. When I show you that leftists said that, what are you going to do? Call them a bunch of stupid idiots?

We switch parties in this discussion, you switch sides. No doubt

Eat a bag of dicks.

Man, if you had a nickle for every time you did that ...

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Maybe you can provide some back up to that assertion. I stand by my statement that in some cases lower tax rates will increase GDP and thus increase tax revenues. This item from NPR shows more economist agree with that than disagree.

I've posted this twice in this thread, so we can go through this exercise again.

Let's look at total revenue growth, according to the Tax Policy Center's Historical Federal Outlays & Receipts over each President's term. Receipts = Revenue

Reagan
1981 Receipts: $599.3
1989 Receipts: $991.1
Revenue growth: 65%

Clinton
1993 Receipts: $1,154.3
2001 Receipts: $1,991.1
Revenue growth: 73%

Bush the Dumber
2001 Receipts: $1,991.1
2009 Receipts: $2,105.0
Revenue growth: 6%

Obama
2009 Receipts: $2,105.0
2017 Receipts: $3,643.7
Revenue growth: 73%

So Reagan and Bush the Dumber both cut taxes, and both had slower revenue growth than Obama and Clinton, who both raised taxes.

So the fantasy of yours is bunk and bullshit.

I’m guessing with that myopic reasoning, you also have swallowed the anthropogenic global warming “science”.

You are assuming all other factors are static, and they never are. There are natural ups and downs in the economy which effect the tax revenues beyond tax rate policy. You claimed revenues have not gone up when tax rates were lowered, and they clearly have. Your data shows they have.

I continue to maintain there is a unique revenue maximum given the specific economic conditions. That maximum may occur in some cases with lower rates, and other cases with higher rates.

Remember- Economic systems are very complicated, that’s why people get doctorates and Nobel prizes for it. If it were as simple as you want to believe........well then there would be no debate, and all qualified economist would agree, but they don’t.

 

[healthmyths]

I agree... if we used Obama's administration's anti-business attitude.

Obama grew the market more in his first year than Trump did.
Corporations made record profits every year of Obama's term.
Obama grew the stock market by nearly 2.5x.
Trump had the fewest jobs created since 2010.
Trump ballooned the deficit to $1T, after Obama reduced it to below $500B.

The myth that Obama was anti-business is the biggest crock of shit out there, with the exception of trickle-down economics.

You are NOT believable because you don't source your comments! Why should anyone believe you as you offer NO PROOF!

"MYTH"??? Obama tells us in his exact words below! HERE READ his exact statements!

B) Obviously you NEVER heard of QE...1, 2, 3 especially from the MSM
$12 trillion of QE and the lowest rates in 5,000 years ... for this?

It's a history of anemic economic growth during the second-longest bull market for stocks. While banks have aggressively pushed quantitative easing along with zero and negative interest rate policies, the results have been uneven.

"The cocktail of QE, ZIRP and NIRP has been a potent one for Wall Street and the price of financial assets in the past eight years," Hartnett said in a report for clients, later adding, "And yet the bull market has waned in the past 18 months, there has been no 'normalization' of growth, rates and asset allocation, no 'Great Rotation,' and bonds and stocks have been trapped in a Twilight Zone of volatile trading.
$12 trillion of QE and the lowest rates in 5,000 years ... for this?

B) Now here is a chart of the GDP versus TAX revenue.. NOTE THERE WAS NOT ONE YEAR WHERE GDP GREW AT 3% OR MORE!

 

[The Derp]

who says tax cuts aren't cuts unless they're net cuts?

Depends on the discussion. I was talking about economic impact though, so since you were responding to that, they aren't cuts unless they are net cuts

LOL! Yeah, so thanks for admitting you just arbitrarily redefine parameters depending on how your argument is faring.

Seriously? You don't grasp using words in context? What grade are you in? Wait until middle school, way cool ...

You just said the definition changes depending on the conversation, which means the definition changes according to how your argument is faring.

Pick a definition and stick to it. This isn't a "context" issue...this is you changing the meaning of what you say mid-conversation depending on how your argument is faring at any given time.

 

[The Derp]

who says tax cuts aren't cuts unless they're net cuts?

Depends on the discussion. I was talking about economic impact though, so since you were responding to that, they aren't cuts unless they are net cuts

There is no discernible positive economic impact of tax cuts like the kind you support.

You made me laugh. LOL. Socialists ...

There isn't and there never will be.

It wasn't there when Bush the Dumber cut taxes.
It wasn't there when Brownback the Skidmark cut taxes.
It's not going to be there when Trump the Traitor cuts taxes.

Give up the ghost already. Your bullshit ideology has no track record of success and never will. Time to admit you were conned, and that you're not as clever or intuitive as you think; that your instincts are poor and you're susceptible to scams.

 

[The Derp]

You just said you didn't know leftists were predicting Trump would be globally catastrophic and you're calling me lazy?

Yes, you're incredibly lazy because you make the assertion and then don't back it up. Instead you expect me to rely on your word. Why the fuck should I? What the fuck have you done to establish that level of trust? Nothing. You're just a lazy fucking dupe. So when you make wild claims like this, it's expected that you back those claims up.

I'll tell you what. For amusement, I'll do your research for you. One condition. When I show you that leftists said that, what are you going to do? Call them a bunch of stupid idiots?

You mean, you'll do your own fucking research, which you should have done in the first place before you even post this garbage. Secondly, the market has entered catastrophe, dropping more than 10% in the last week alone. All the other global markets have followed suit and lost 10%+ of their value as well. So even if you can dig up some half-baked bullshit quote, the quote would be accurate since the markets have lost so much over the last week.

Man, if you had a nickle for every time you did that ...

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[The Derp]

I’m guessing with that myopic reasoning, you also have swallowed the anthropogenic global warming “science”.

When confronted with math and statistics, this is your response. Just give up. This is sad.

IYou are assuming all other factors are static, and they never are.

I haven't made any assumptions you troll. All I did was calculate the revenue growth from when those four entered office to when they left office. No assumptions were made. I think you don't know what the word "assumption" even means at this point.

Your claim was that cutting taxes increases revenue growth. The statistics show that isn't the case, and the Presidents who cut taxes (Bush, Reagan) saw slower revenue growth than the Presidents who raised taxes (Obama, Clinton).

You can't seem to handle it so you spit out some word salad to make yourself feel better.

Fact is, Reagan and Bush grew revenues less than Obama and Clinton.

There are natural ups and downs in the economy which effect the tax revenues beyond tax rate policy. You claimed revenues have not gone up when tax rates were lowered, and they clearly have. Your data shows they have.

NO! That is not what I fucking said. You are doing that shitty Conservative thing where you construct straw men and then argue those straw men. What I've said is that revenue grows SLOWER when you cut taxes. And the data shows that is true. I even posted the revenue numbers so you could see for yourself. Now you seem unable to reconcile the fact that your shitty notions are flawed, that your intuition and instincts suck, and that you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I continue to maintain there is a unique revenue maximum given the specific economic conditions. That maximum may occur in some cases with lower rates, and other cases with higher rates..

What you're doing here is walking back your shitty statement from earlier, broadening it out so you can save face on a message board. Your contention only became this once you learned that Reagan and Bush grew revenues at a slower rate than Clinton and Obama. So here's a perfect example of Conservative goalpost shifting done for the sake of their shitpile of an ego. Get the fuck over yourself. No one cares about what you think of your own reputation.

Remember- Economic systems are very complicated, that’s why people get doctorates and Nobel prizes for it. If it were as simple as you want to believe........well then there would be no debate, and all qualified economist would agree, but they don’t.

LOL! Fuck off. This stuff isn't that hard. The data makes it pretty clear. The data shows that when taxes are cut, revenues grow at a slower rate than if taxes are increased. Those are what the data shows. You seem unable to reconcile that with your own inflated sense of self. Barf.

 

[healthmyths]

If you're intellectually dishonest, I'm putting you in my don't take seriously category. I'd show you quotes, but you're LYING. You know Democrats said this

No, I don't know they said this. Why don't you get off your fat, lazy ass and prove it?! What you do is construct straw men, then argue those straw men...and then you get defensive when your bullshit is called out.

GET. OVER. YOURSELF.

We switch parties in this discussion, you switch sides. No doubt

Eat a bag of dicks.

Hey you should talk! NOT ONE substantiation of any of your totally subjective comments!
See you have to show your sources, your links because someone who uses a idiotic masked character as an avatar must be a real juvenile. Get some proof for your dumb as comments!

 

[healthmyths]

You just said you didn't know leftists were predicting Trump would be globally catastrophic and you're calling me lazy?

Yes, you're incredibly lazy because you make the assertion and then don't back it up. Instead you expect me to rely on your word. Why the fuck should I? What the fuck have you done to establish that level of trust? Nothing. You're just a lazy fucking dupe. So when you make wild claims like this, it's expected that you back those claims up.

I'll tell you what. For amusement, I'll do your research for you. One condition. When I show you that leftists said that, what are you going to do? Call them a bunch of stupid idiots?

You mean, you'll do your own fucking research, which you should have done in the first place before you even post this garbage. Secondly, the market has entered catastrophe, dropping more than 10% in the last week alone. All the other global markets have followed suit and lost 10%+ of their value as well. So even if you can dig up some half-baked bullshit quote, the quote would be accurate since the markets have lost so much over the last week.

Man, if you had a nickle for every time you did that ...

I'd be as rich as your mom.

GEEZ you should talk! "you'll do your own fucking research,

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Yes, you did assume. You assumed that all other economic factors were static. You didn’t consider employment rate, unemployment or the sheer number of people in the work force. Consider- revenues could increase while unemployment rate goes up if there are more people in the work force paying taxes. Conversely, it is also possible for revenues to decline with low unemployment but fewer people in the work force. Those are only 2 of the multitude of factors that you didn’t consider which do effect tax revenue. Like I said, it’s very complicated, and even more so for people who can’t even identify all the factors.

 

[The Derp]

You are NOT believable because you don't source your comments!

OK...

Obama grew the market more in his first year than Trump did, and you can find the DJIA numbers anywhere. You don't need me to find them for you.

DJIA on 1/20/09: 7,949
DJIA on 1/20/10: 10,603
Growth: 33%

DJIA on 1/20/17: 19,732.40
DJIA on 1/19/18: 26,115.65
Growth: 32%

Is 33% > or < 32%?


Obama grew the market by 2.5x

You get that factor by going from 7,949 to 19,732 is 2.48x - that's just simple math, dude, and you can use the same DJIA numbers that are available.



Trump had the fewest jobs created since 2010.

According to Fox News Research:

Average Monthly #Job Gains -by year
•2017: 171,000
•2016: 187,000
•2015: 226,000
•2014: 250,000
•2013: 192,000
•2012: 179,000
•2011: 174,000
•2010: 88,000


Trump ballooned the deficit to $1T, after Obama reduced it to below $500B.

From CBS News:

President Donald Drumpf is proposing a $4 trillion-plus budget for next year that projects a $1 trillion or so federal deficit and — unlike the plan he released last year — never comes close to promising a balanced federal ledger even after 10 years.

Obama's lowest deficit was in 2014: $486B
CBO: Monthly Budget Review for September 2014

Obama;s last deficit was $503B
Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

B) Obviously you NEVER heard of QE...1, 2, 3 especially from the MSM

Not sure why you have anything negative to say about QE which is trickle-down economics in its most base form. Handing money to the banks who then are supposed to loan it out to consumers. Only the banks didn't do that and just hoarded the QE wealth for themselves. That's what you want, isn't it? That's your economic ideology.

 

[The Derp]

GEEZ you should talk! "you'll do your own fucking research,

I do my research and happily support all my claims. You rely on memes and things you copied from other people and then can't explain the details of what you're posting, insisting instead that we do that for you.

You're a fucking leech.

 

[The Derp]

Yes, you did assume. You assumed that all other economic factors were static. You didn’t consider employment rate, unemployment or the sheer number of people in the work force. Consider- revenues could increase while unemployment rate goes up if there are more people in the work force paying taxes. Conversely, it is also possible for revenues to decline with low unemployment but fewer people in the work force. Those are only 2 of the multitude of factors that you didn’t consider which do effect tax revenue. Like I said, it’s very complicated, and even more so for people who can’t even identify all the factors.

You don't seem to know what "assumption" means.

All I did was calculate revenue growth over 4 of the last 5 Presidents.

The revenue growth during Obama and Clinton was better than it was during Reagan and Bush the Dumber.

You're spitting out word salad, making excuses as to why your bullshit claim about revenue growing after a tax cut isn't something you can prove with facts.

Give it up. You're done.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

For all of you following this thread, here are a few gem quotes from the intellectual who calls himself DERP

“Eat a bag of dicks”

If you hand a nickel for every time.....” I’d be as rich as your mom”

“Get the fuck over yourself”

Keep ‘me coming Derp. It’s you being the best you can be.

 

[The Derp]

Yes, you did assume. You assumed that all other economic factors were static. You didn’t consider employment rate, unemployment or the sheer number of people in the work force. Consider- revenues could increase while unemployment rate goes up if there are more people in the work force paying taxes. Conversely, it is also possible for revenues to decline with low unemployment but fewer people in the work force. Those are only 2 of the multitude of factors that you didn’t consider which do effect tax revenue. Like I said, it’s very complicated, and even more so for people who can’t even identify all the factors.

YOUR CLAIM WAS THAT TAX CUTS RESULT IN REVENUE GROWTH.

I proved that claim was bullshit by posting revenue growth data that shows, quite clearly, that Obama and Clinton had better revenue growth than Reagan and Bush the Dumber.

Ever since that time, you've been trying to redefine the parameters of what you said, absconding responsibility for making a false statement, and avoiding culpability for being a fucking duped moron.

You're trying so hard, but you're still failing because you can't bear to admit that you're not half as clever as you pretend to be.

I don't understand why at this point you are doing this...I'd have much more respect for you if you just admitted that you got conned on the whole tax cut thing.

 

[The Derp]

For all of you following this thread, here are a few gem quotes from the intellectual who calls himself DERP

“Eat a bag of dicks”

If you hand a nickel for every time.....” I’d be as rich as your mom”

“Get the fuck over yourself”

Keep ‘me coming Derp. It’s you being the best you can be.

Anyone can look at the thread and see that you said something patently false and unproven (Tax cuts create revenue), and have spent the last few posts since walking that shit back by arbitrarily redefining the parameters of what you meant, to try and save face on a fucking message board.

That's why you get no respect from me.

 

[Thinker101]

For all of you following this thread, here are a few gem quotes from the intellectual who calls himself DERP

“Eat a bag of dicks”

If you hand a nickel for every time.....” I’d be as rich as your mom”

“Get the fuck over yourself”

Keep ‘me coming Derp. It’s you being the best you can be.

Anyone can look at the thread and see that you said something patently false and unproven (Tax cuts create revenue), and have spent the last few posts since walking that shit back by arbitrarily redefining the parameters of what you meant, to try and save face on a fucking message board.

That's why you get no respect from me.

Oh Nooo, not the get no respect....some of us could care less.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Yes, you did assume. You assumed that all other economic factors were static. You didn’t consider employment rate, unemployment or the sheer number of people in the work force. Consider- revenues could increase while unemployment rate goes up if there are more people in the work force paying taxes. Conversely, it is also possible for revenues to decline with low unemployment but fewer people in the work force. Those are only 2 of the multitude of factors that you didn’t consider which do effect tax revenue. Like I said, it’s very complicated, and even more so for people who can’t even identify all the factors.

You don't seem to know what "assumption" means.

All I did was calculate revenue growth over 4 of the last 5 Presidents.

The revenue growth during Obama and Clinton was better than it was during Reagan and Bush the Dumber.

You're spitting out word salad, making excuses as to why your bullshit claim about revenue growing after a tax cut isn't something you can prove with facts.

Give it up. You're done.

Thank you, I will accept your advice. You are an angry, unhappy person who is clearly incapable of engaging in a intellectual debate. That is why you so often resort to cursing and name calling. It happens every time you are confronted with a point you have not considered. You should try to like yourself, because I don’t think you’ll every change and grow. Later!

 

[BuckToothMoron]

For all of you following this thread, here are a few gem quotes from the intellectual who calls himself DERP

“Eat a bag of dicks”

If you hand a nickel for every time.....” I’d be as rich as your mom”

“Get the fuck over yourself”

Keep ‘me coming Derp. It’s you being the best you can be.

Anyone can look at the thread and see that you said something patently false and unproven (Tax cuts create revenue), and have spent the last few posts since walking that shit back by arbitrarily redefining the parameters of what you meant, to try and save face on a fucking message board.

That's why you get no respect from me.

Oh Nooo, not the get no respect....some of us could care less.

The DERP is a real trip. He talks about respect on the forum, and then you see his ratings are running at about 25%. Clearly he hasn’t made many friends here, even more clearly, few people respect what he post.