Did we just get played by the Trump administration?

[Czernobog]

There seem to be two different narratives of the events of the last week. The first one is pretty straightforward: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is skitchy. The second story is much more sinister, and distressing: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand.

After all, imagine you were a member of the Trump administration, and wanted to make an early power play, here is the most reasonable play:

1. We launch a series of Executive Orders in the first week. Beforehand, we identify one that our opponents will complain loudly about and will dominate the news cycle. Immigration ban. Perfect.
   
   
2. We craft the ban to be about 20% more extreme than we actually want it to be — say, let’s make the explicit decision to block green card holders from defined countries from entering the US, rather than just visa holders. We create some confusion so that we can walk back from that part later, but let’s make sure that it’s enforced to begin with.
   
   
3. We watch our opposition pour out into the streets protesting the extremes of our public measure, exactly as we intended. The protests dominate the news, but our base doesn’t watch CNN anyway. The ACLU will file motions to oppose the most extreme parts of our measure, that’s actually going to be useful too. We don’t actually care if we win, that’s why we made it more extreme than it needed to be. But in doing so, the lawsuit process will test the loyalty of those enforcing what we say.
   
   
4. While the nation’s attention is on our extreme EO, slip a few more nuanced moves through. For example, reconfigure the National Security Council so that it’s led by our chosen insiders. Or gut the State Department’s ability to resist more extreme moves. That will have massive benefits down the road — the NSC are the folks that authorize secret assassinations against enemies of the state, including American citizens. Almost nobody has time to analyze that move closely, and those that do can’t get coverage, because all of the air is being eaten up with the Immigration thing.
   
   
5. When the lawsuits filed by the ACLU inevitably succeed, stay silent. Don’t tell the DHS to abide by the what the federal judge says, see what they do on their own. If they capitulate to the courts, we know our power with the DHS is limited and we need to staff it with more loyal people. But if they continue enforcing our EO until we tell them not to, we know that we can completely ignore the judicial branch later on and the DHS will have our back.
   
   
6. Once the DHS has made their move, walk back from the 20% we didn’t want in the first place. Let the green card holders in, and pretend that’s what we meant all along. The protestors and the ACLU, both clamoring to display their efficacy, jump on the moment to declare a huge victory. The crowds dissipate, they have to go back to work.
   
   
7. When the situation susses itself out, we have 100% of the Executive Order we originally wanted, we’ve tested the loyalty of a department we’ll need later on, we’ve proven we can ignore an entire branch of government, and we’ve slipped in some subtle moves that will make the next test even easier.

We just tested the country's willingness to capitulate to a fascist regime.

So, if those who think that there was some sinister motive to Trump's actions, we all just did the exact wrong thing. We need to stop being so reactive, and pay more attention to every move that the Trump administration is making. progressives are playing checkers, while Trump is playing chess; and he is kicking ass...

Just a thought, in case Progressives aren't losing enough sleep already...

 

[EverCurious]

Sounds like a decent conspiracy theory so I'll give you credit for good connecting points.

The flaw is that you are operating entirely on a presumption of evil on President Trumps case - no doubt due to the consistent lies that the media told throughout the campaign. I encourage you to return to interviews of Mr. Trump beginning back in the 1980s and follow them through to the present. What you will find is a very consistent platform of what's wrong with America, as well as Trump's distress that the US was being beaten out by foreign nations. I think the only "link" that sits with your theory is that Trump likes to be a winner and he is embarrassed and let down by America failing consistently - be that in trade wars or the 'quality of life' in foreign nations (most especially Asian and Middle East) You would be better served to fly a 'revenge' or 'equalizing' theory on Trumps part - either we become better than them, or we destroy them (though that's angle is a hard sell considering his investments in, and the money he has made from, those nations.)

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The democrats intended to obstruct to the point of paralyzing all levels of government and not cooperate until all of their demands and desires have been met. In effect, turning all republicans into democrats. The Trump administration is not allowing that to happen.

 

[theHawk]

There seem to be two different narratives of the events of the last week. The first one is pretty straightforward: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is skitchy. The second story is much more sinister, and distressing: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand.

After all, imagine you were a member of the Trump administration, and wanted to make an early power play, here is the most reasonable play:

1. We launch a series of Executive Orders in the first week. Beforehand, we identify one that our opponents will complain loudly about and will dominate the news cycle. Immigration ban. Perfect.
   
   
2. We craft the ban to be about 20% more extreme than we actually want it to be — say, let’s make the explicit decision to block green card holders from defined countries from entering the US, rather than just visa holders. We create some confusion so that we can walk back from that part later, but let’s make sure that it’s enforced to begin with.
   
   
3. We watch our opposition pour out into the streets protesting the extremes of our public measure, exactly as we intended. The protests dominate the news, but our base doesn’t watch CNN anyway. The ACLU will file motions to oppose the most extreme parts of our measure, that’s actually going to be useful too. We don’t actually care if we win, that’s why we made it more extreme than it needed to be. But in doing so, the lawsuit process will test the loyalty of those enforcing what we say.
   
   
4. While the nation’s attention is on our extreme EO, slip a few more nuanced moves through. For example, reconfigure the National Security Council so that it’s led by our chosen insiders. Or gut the State Department’s ability to resist more extreme moves. That will have massive benefits down the road — the NSC are the folks that authorize secret assassinations against enemies of the state, including American citizens. Almost nobody has time to analyze that move closely, and those that do can’t get coverage, because all of the air is being eaten up with the Immigration thing.
   
   
5. When the lawsuits filed by the ACLU inevitably succeed, stay silent. Don’t tell the DHS to abide by the what the federal judge says, see what they do on their own. If they capitulate to the courts, we know our power with the DHS is limited and we need to staff it with more loyal people. But if they continue enforcing our EO until we tell them not to, we know that we can completely ignore the judicial branch later on and the DHS will have our back.
   
   
6. Once the DHS has made their move, walk back from the 20% we didn’t want in the first place. Let the green card holders in, and pretend that’s what we meant all along. The protestors and the ACLU, both clamoring to display their efficacy, jump on the moment to declare a huge victory. The crowds dissipate, they have to go back to work.
   
   
7. When the situation susses itself out, we have 100% of the Executive Order we originally wanted, we’ve tested the loyalty of a department we’ll need later on, we’ve proven we can ignore an entire branch of government, and we’ve slipped in some subtle moves that will make the next test even easier.

We just tested the country's willingness to capitulate to a fascist regime.

So, if those who think that there was some sinister motive to Trump's actions, we all just did the exact wrong thing. We need to stop being so reactive, and pay more attention to every move that the Trump administration is making. progressives are playing checkers, while Trump is playing chess; and he is kicking ass...

Just a thought, in case Progressives aren't losing enough sleep already...

Trump's every move isn't already being watched under a microscope?

I agree that he is overshooting what he really wants, because he knows the leftist loons will overreact to anything he does. Concede a little bit, they get to claim "victory", but what we really wanted is still there. But beyond that, what you are claiming is nonsense. How is he "ignoring the judicial branch" if he is complying to what they say?

 

[Czernobog]

There seem to be two different narratives of the events of the last week. The first one is pretty straightforward: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is skitchy. The second story is much more sinister, and distressing: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand.

After all, imagine you were a member of the Trump administration, and wanted to make an early power play, here is the most reasonable play:

1. We launch a series of Executive Orders in the first week. Beforehand, we identify one that our opponents will complain loudly about and will dominate the news cycle. Immigration ban. Perfect.
   
   
2. We craft the ban to be about 20% more extreme than we actually want it to be — say, let’s make the explicit decision to block green card holders from defined countries from entering the US, rather than just visa holders. We create some confusion so that we can walk back from that part later, but let’s make sure that it’s enforced to begin with.
   
   
3. We watch our opposition pour out into the streets protesting the extremes of our public measure, exactly as we intended. The protests dominate the news, but our base doesn’t watch CNN anyway. The ACLU will file motions to oppose the most extreme parts of our measure, that’s actually going to be useful too. We don’t actually care if we win, that’s why we made it more extreme than it needed to be. But in doing so, the lawsuit process will test the loyalty of those enforcing what we say.
   
   
4. While the nation’s attention is on our extreme EO, slip a few more nuanced moves through. For example, reconfigure the National Security Council so that it’s led by our chosen insiders. Or gut the State Department’s ability to resist more extreme moves. That will have massive benefits down the road — the NSC are the folks that authorize secret assassinations against enemies of the state, including American citizens. Almost nobody has time to analyze that move closely, and those that do can’t get coverage, because all of the air is being eaten up with the Immigration thing.
   
   
5. When the lawsuits filed by the ACLU inevitably succeed, stay silent. Don’t tell the DHS to abide by the what the federal judge says, see what they do on their own. If they capitulate to the courts, we know our power with the DHS is limited and we need to staff it with more loyal people. But if they continue enforcing our EO until we tell them not to, we know that we can completely ignore the judicial branch later on and the DHS will have our back.
   
   
6. Once the DHS has made their move, walk back from the 20% we didn’t want in the first place. Let the green card holders in, and pretend that’s what we meant all along. The protestors and the ACLU, both clamoring to display their efficacy, jump on the moment to declare a huge victory. The crowds dissipate, they have to go back to work.
   
   
7. When the situation susses itself out, we have 100% of the Executive Order we originally wanted, we’ve tested the loyalty of a department we’ll need later on, we’ve proven we can ignore an entire branch of government, and we’ve slipped in some subtle moves that will make the next test even easier.

We just tested the country's willingness to capitulate to a fascist regime.

So, if those who think that there was some sinister motive to Trump's actions, we all just did the exact wrong thing. We need to stop being so reactive, and pay more attention to every move that the Trump administration is making. progressives are playing checkers, while Trump is playing chess; and he is kicking ass...

Just a thought, in case Progressives aren't losing enough sleep already...

Trump's every move isn't already being watched under a microscope?

I agree that he is overshooting what he really wants, because he knows the leftist loons will overreact to anything he does. Concede a little bit, they get to claim "victory", but what we really wanted is still there. But beyond that, what you are claiming is nonsense. How is he "ignoring the judicial branch" if he is complying to what they say?

Except they didn't comply with the courts. That's kinda the point. The border agents didn't stop enforcing the executive order because the courts said to stop. They kept right on enforcing all parts of the order until Trump told them to stop. So, the Trump administration confirmed what they needed to know; that when it comes who the agencies will listen to - the federal courts, or the Trump administration - they will ignore the courts, and only act when, and how, the administration tells them to.

 

[theHawk]

There seem to be two different narratives of the events of the last week. The first one is pretty straightforward: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is skitchy. The second story is much more sinister, and distressing: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand.

After all, imagine you were a member of the Trump administration, and wanted to make an early power play, here is the most reasonable play:

1. We launch a series of Executive Orders in the first week. Beforehand, we identify one that our opponents will complain loudly about and will dominate the news cycle. Immigration ban. Perfect.
   
   
2. We craft the ban to be about 20% more extreme than we actually want it to be — say, let’s make the explicit decision to block green card holders from defined countries from entering the US, rather than just visa holders. We create some confusion so that we can walk back from that part later, but let’s make sure that it’s enforced to begin with.
   
   
3. We watch our opposition pour out into the streets protesting the extremes of our public measure, exactly as we intended. The protests dominate the news, but our base doesn’t watch CNN anyway. The ACLU will file motions to oppose the most extreme parts of our measure, that’s actually going to be useful too. We don’t actually care if we win, that’s why we made it more extreme than it needed to be. But in doing so, the lawsuit process will test the loyalty of those enforcing what we say.
   
   
4. While the nation’s attention is on our extreme EO, slip a few more nuanced moves through. For example, reconfigure the National Security Council so that it’s led by our chosen insiders. Or gut the State Department’s ability to resist more extreme moves. That will have massive benefits down the road — the NSC are the folks that authorize secret assassinations against enemies of the state, including American citizens. Almost nobody has time to analyze that move closely, and those that do can’t get coverage, because all of the air is being eaten up with the Immigration thing.
   
   
5. When the lawsuits filed by the ACLU inevitably succeed, stay silent. Don’t tell the DHS to abide by the what the federal judge says, see what they do on their own. If they capitulate to the courts, we know our power with the DHS is limited and we need to staff it with more loyal people. But if they continue enforcing our EO until we tell them not to, we know that we can completely ignore the judicial branch later on and the DHS will have our back.
   
   
6. Once the DHS has made their move, walk back from the 20% we didn’t want in the first place. Let the green card holders in, and pretend that’s what we meant all along. The protestors and the ACLU, both clamoring to display their efficacy, jump on the moment to declare a huge victory. The crowds dissipate, they have to go back to work.
   
   
7. When the situation susses itself out, we have 100% of the Executive Order we originally wanted, we’ve tested the loyalty of a department we’ll need later on, we’ve proven we can ignore an entire branch of government, and we’ve slipped in some subtle moves that will make the next test even easier.

We just tested the country's willingness to capitulate to a fascist regime.

So, if those who think that there was some sinister motive to Trump's actions, we all just did the exact wrong thing. We need to stop being so reactive, and pay more attention to every move that the Trump administration is making. progressives are playing checkers, while Trump is playing chess; and he is kicking ass...

Just a thought, in case Progressives aren't losing enough sleep already...

Trump's every move isn't already being watched under a microscope?

I agree that he is overshooting what he really wants, because he knows the leftist loons will overreact to anything he does. Concede a little bit, they get to claim "victory", but what we really wanted is still there. But beyond that, what you are claiming is nonsense. How is he "ignoring the judicial branch" if he is complying to what they say?

Except they didn't comply with the courts. That's kinda the point. The border agents didn't stop enforcing the executive order because the courts said to stop. They kept right on enforcing all parts of the order until Trump told them to stop. So, the Trump administration confirmed what they needed to know; that when it comes who the agencies will listen to - the federal courts, or the Trump administration - they will ignore the courts, and only act when, and how, the administration tells them to.

The court orders I know of were about blocking the deportation of ones already here, and allowing green cards in. They did not affect the rest of the policy itself. The border/customs can still enforce the "ban" on those countries.

 

[EverCurious]

The stay orders only applied to folks in air already. There's some debate on the VISA bit, but I don't think any of those have been granted. All in all as I understand it we're talking about 109 people, most of whom we're released after a couple hours because they checked out or whatever.

The airlines are typically the ones who "comply" with the order regarding immigration into the US as far as I've heard - because they're on the line to give a free flight home to anyone they bring through (aka ignore the pause.) So I mean if you want to yell at someone for /not/ letting them through, talk to the ticket gals about why they're not ignoring the President of the US.

 

[Old Rocks]

The orange clown is psychotic. Period.

 

[EverCurious]

Good job throwing down an opinion piece based on media lies to prove your point?

There is nothing wrong with Trump. I could answer to each of the proclamations this guy brings up, but you're not going to listen because you hate him, blindly. Trump is an alpha male in a fake world that you morons, snowed by fake media and PC culture, created. This fantasy world doesn't actually exist except on college campuses and Facebook circles.

 

[Call Sign Chaos]

There seem to be two different narratives of the events of the last week. The first one is pretty straightforward: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is skitchy. The second story is much more sinister, and distressing: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand.

After all, imagine you were a member of the Trump administration, and wanted to make an early power play, here is the most reasonable play:

1. We launch a series of Executive Orders in the first week. Beforehand, we identify one that our opponents will complain loudly about and will dominate the news cycle. Immigration ban. Perfect.
   
   
2. We craft the ban to be about 20% more extreme than we actually want it to be — say, let’s make the explicit decision to block green card holders from defined countries from entering the US, rather than just visa holders. We create some confusion so that we can walk back from that part later, but let’s make sure that it’s enforced to begin with.
   
   
3. We watch our opposition pour out into the streets protesting the extremes of our public measure, exactly as we intended. The protests dominate the news, but our base doesn’t watch CNN anyway. The ACLU will file motions to oppose the most extreme parts of our measure, that’s actually going to be useful too. We don’t actually care if we win, that’s why we made it more extreme than it needed to be. But in doing so, the lawsuit process will test the loyalty of those enforcing what we say.
   
   
4. While the nation’s attention is on our extreme EO, slip a few more nuanced moves through. For example, reconfigure the National Security Council so that it’s led by our chosen insiders. Or gut the State Department’s ability to resist more extreme moves. That will have massive benefits down the road — the NSC are the folks that authorize secret assassinations against enemies of the state, including American citizens. Almost nobody has time to analyze that move closely, and those that do can’t get coverage, because all of the air is being eaten up with the Immigration thing.
   
   
5. When the lawsuits filed by the ACLU inevitably succeed, stay silent. Don’t tell the DHS to abide by the what the federal judge says, see what they do on their own. If they capitulate to the courts, we know our power with the DHS is limited and we need to staff it with more loyal people. But if they continue enforcing our EO until we tell them not to, we know that we can completely ignore the judicial branch later on and the DHS will have our back.
   
   
6. Once the DHS has made their move, walk back from the 20% we didn’t want in the first place. Let the green card holders in, and pretend that’s what we meant all along. The protestors and the ACLU, both clamoring to display their efficacy, jump on the moment to declare a huge victory. The crowds dissipate, they have to go back to work.
   
   
7. When the situation susses itself out, we have 100% of the Executive Order we originally wanted, we’ve tested the loyalty of a department we’ll need later on, we’ve proven we can ignore an entire branch of government, and we’ve slipped in some subtle moves that will make the next test even easier.

We just tested the country's willingness to capitulate to a fascist regime.

So, if those who think that there was some sinister motive to Trump's actions, we all just did the exact wrong thing. We need to stop being so reactive, and pay more attention to every move that the Trump administration is making. progressives are playing checkers, while Trump is playing chess; and he is kicking ass...

Just a thought, in case Progressives aren't losing enough sleep already...

There is no Trump administration yet because of Democrat obstructionism, we finally just made it to the number of confirmed cabinet members as Obama had on his first day. And you people want to complain about Executive Orders after 8 years of Obama? Give me a fucking break.