CONSERVATIVES.....HEH; Total "Cost of War" since 2001; <--this is only accurate for .00001 seconds

[Andylusion]

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

Give me an example of this world-wide shortage of health care that the private sector has no interest in fixing?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Private care routinely provides excellent service.

Private care didn't do jack shit to quell the recent Ebola outbreak, only nation states had the resources and the interest to do anything. We only had to do that because the region had a healthcare shortage as does much of the developing world who would not have any modern healthcare if it was not subsidized by the west or socialized locally.

Really... Interesting claim.

So which of the half dozen countries that had an ebola outbreak, would you claim had a private, non-government funded health care system, and didn't do anything to help?

 

[occupied]

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

Give me an example of this world-wide shortage of health care that the private sector has no interest in fixing?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Private care routinely provides excellent service.

Private care didn't do jack shit to quell the recent Ebola outbreak, only nation states had the resources and the interest to do anything. We only had to do that because the region had a healthcare shortage as does much of the developing world who would not have any modern healthcare if it was not subsidized by the west or socialized locally.

Really... Interesting claim.

So which of the half dozen countries that had an ebola outbreak, would you claim had a private, non-government funded health care system, and didn't do anything to help?

Your reading comprehension sucks balls, for-profit healthcare only exists where people can afford it, everywhere else in the developing world terribly underfunded socialized medicine, witch doctors, herbalists and charity are all there is. If for-profit health care has a solution to this you probably need to present it now or better yet, get back on the topic of War costs, veterans and the VA. Maybe you can tell us how for-profit medicine can better serve our veterans and their particular needs?

 

[FA_Q2]

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

Give me an example of this world-wide shortage of health care that the private sector has no interest in fixing?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Private care routinely provides excellent service.

Private care didn't do jack shit to quell the recent Ebola outbreak, only nation states had the resources and the interest to do anything. We only had to do that because the region had a healthcare shortage as does much of the developing world who would not have any modern healthcare if it was not subsidized by the west or socialized locally.

Really... Interesting claim.

So which of the half dozen countries that had an ebola outbreak, would you claim had a private, non-government funded health care system, and didn't do anything to help?

Your reading comprehension sucks balls, for-profit healthcare only exists where people can afford it, everywhere else in the developing world terribly underfunded socialized medicine, witch doctors, herbalists and charity are all there is. If for-profit health care has a solution to this you probably need to present it now or better yet, get back on the topic of War costs, veterans and the VA. Maybe you can tell us how for-profit medicine can better serve our veterans and their particular needs?

For profit medicine DOES service veterans. The VA is not the sole provider of veteran care and almost all of the most difficult procedures are done at for profit hospitals. The care there is much better than the care in the military hospitals which provide absolutely terrible care.

 

[bripat9643]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Sorry, but the "it's all Republican's fault" meme doesn't wash. They got all the money they asked for. They spent hundreds of millions on travel and conferences while Veterans were dying because the were put on the infinite loop waiting list.

 

[Andylusion]

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

Give me an example of this world-wide shortage of health care that the private sector has no interest in fixing?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Private care routinely provides excellent service.

Private care didn't do jack shit to quell the recent Ebola outbreak, only nation states had the resources and the interest to do anything. We only had to do that because the region had a healthcare shortage as does much of the developing world who would not have any modern healthcare if it was not subsidized by the west or socialized locally.

Really... Interesting claim.

So which of the half dozen countries that had an ebola outbreak, would you claim had a private, non-government funded health care system, and didn't do anything to help?

Your reading comprehension sucks balls, for-profit healthcare only exists where people can afford it, everywhere else in the developing world terribly underfunded socialized medicine, witch doctors, herbalists and charity are all there is. If for-profit health care has a solution to this you probably need to present it now or better yet, get back on the topic of War costs, veterans and the VA. Maybe you can tell us how for-profit medicine can better serve our veterans and their particular needs?

I don't know of a single socialized care system which isn't "underfunded" because you inherently run out of other peoples money to spend.

My point was, you point to countries which don't have a capitalist for-profit system, and then claim capitalist for-profit systems don't have a solution?

That's like having the government prevent private companies building roads, and then claiming without government, we wouldn't have any roads.