"Common Sense" Gun Control

[Quantum Windbag]

You can easily adapt a magazine to hold less rounds and I was talking about rifles, not revolvers, because they don't have a magazine. The gun illegal thing is nonsense.

Legally, you can't, because the law says that any magazine that can be adapted to hold more than x rounds is illegal.

What law are you talking about?

Why don't you post the law or a source to it?

Why was Gregory investigated for simply holding an empty magazine in Washington DC?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Riddle me this:

How would have denying Adam Lanza the right to buy guns because he was mentally ill stopped Sandy Hook?

He did not buy the guns he stole them from his mother.

So tell me do we have to have psych evals for every person living in every home and every person who might visit that home if a sane person living there wants a weapon to protect himself?

In fact, he was unable to buy a gun when he tried, I wonder if that was because he was listed in a database as mentally ill. Yet he still managed to do what he did.

His mother should have had enough sense to keep guns away from him.

That is only one case of violence in America. I understand you don't want things changed, but that's just too bad.

What evidence do you have that she didn't keep her guns locked away, as the law in Connecticut requires?

 

[Oldguy]

Thanks for illustrating that the calls for banning assault weapons are based solely on emotion, not on logic.

Sure they are, but emotions is what's driving this whole debate, isn't it? And, our representative democracy responds to emotional outpourings from the public.

Is an assault weapons ban effective at stopping murders? No, but it shuts off the debate without actually harming any of our basic 2nd Amendment rights which haven't already been curtailed.

What's wrong with that and what would be achieved by continuing the fight?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The easy access to weapons is creating the violence. The open market needs to be shut down. It can be done in ways that honest citizens can still purchase their weapons.

If that were true there would be more violent crime in America than any country in the world. Since the US is not even in the top 10 in that category, your premise is wrong.

That doesn't make sense, because there are some messed up places in this world. We aren't at war within the country. This is an industrialized country.

Your claim is that access to guns causes violence. We have more guns per capita than any nation on Earth, yet don't even crack the top ten list for violent crime. Want to explain how me pointing this out makes me wrong?

 

[Dubya]

People create violence not weapons.

People were violent before there were guns and they will be violent if guns are taken away.

That is even more reason to have a weapon because if weapons are banned then 2 or 3 people can over power one unarmed man where one man with a weapon can hold them off.

Then they can create it without a gun.

I can't create violence without a gun? We should let McVeigh out of jail because he did not have a gun and I must have dreamt that 19 people without guns killed thousands om 9/11.

Right, those militia groups don't believe in guns, do they? Try buying a truck full of fertilizer today! When I was young you could buy dynamite in the hardware store, but then people messed that up.

Stop whining about your guns like a little baby and let the adults handle it!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then people can learn from their ancestors.

Go to the shooting range, if you need high capacity magazines!

Yeah keep believing that people will just magically learn not to be violent. Maybe Santa Claus actually exists too.

And you haven't told me how preventing a person who has never once committed a violent act with a gun from buying any gun or magazine he wants will decrease violence.

And BTW I'll say it again. I do not own one 30 round magazine for any of my rifles because I know that I can shoot just as many rounds in virtually the same time with 2 15 round mags and besides the larger capacity mags are more likely to jam.

And I only ever use my weapons at a shooting range but I will also use them if some criminal motherfucker tries to break into my house when i am home and if I want to put 30, 60, 90 or 1000 rounds into that criminal scum what business is it of yours?

You represent the interests of the NRA and I represent the interests of the American people. Let's see who wins!

Well since I am not and have never been a member of the NRA I fail to see your point.

And you do not represent the American People because last time I checked I was one of those people and there is no way I would ever let a freedom hating control freak like you represent me.

 

[Dubya]

Legally, you can't, because the law says that any magazine that can be adapted to hold more than x rounds is illegal.

What law are you talking about?

Why don't you post the law or a source to it?

Why was Gregory investigated for simply holding an empty magazine in Washington DC?

I'm not familiar with what happened.

 

[daveman]

Thanks for illustrating that the calls for banning assault weapons are based solely on emotion, not on logic.

Sure they are, but emotions is what's driving this whole debate, isn't it? And, our representative democracy responds to emotional outpourings from the public.

Is an assault weapons ban effective at stopping murders? No, but it shuts off the debate without actually harming any of our basic 2nd Amendment rights which haven't already been curtailed.

What's wrong with that and what would be achieved by continuing the fight?

Sure, if you don't mind feel-good legislation that accomplishes exactly nothing.

The objection is that once the idiots who push this crap realize what they did didn't do any good, they will push for more and more restrictions that DO erode rights.

But yes, these proposals DO limit my rights. There is no question.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fine with me. Enact a law that mandates life in prison without parole for any violent crime committed with a gun other than self defense.

Some states already have that.

And you aren't satisfied? Make it a federal rap then I'm fine with that.

Weapons sold on the market are not dangerous. People can injure themselves or someone else with a safe weapon just as people can injure themselves or someone else with a car if either is used irresponsibly. That's called risk and risk is part of life.

Yes, but the question we must ask ourselves, and are asking now, is what level of risk are we willing to accept?

Keeping people like me and 99.999% of law abiding gun owners from buying guns will not reduce your risk of being the victim of a violent crime. To think that violent crime can be prevented is hubris of the worst sort. We as a species have not been able to do that any time in our history what on earth makes you think you can do it now?

That's called being a realist.

If you can stop them without curtailing the rights of those who never have hurt anyone with a weapon then go ahead.

I'd like to hear your ideas on how to do that. It would be tantamount to casting your net to catch only one kind of fish without trapping some other kinds.

People aren't fish and the Constitution is supposed to protect innocent people from being caught in a wide net. That's why the authorities need cause for warrants.

I have never committed a crime with a gun, never will so in my opinion any curtailment of my right to own weapons is too much.

Keeping weapons out of the hands of is similar. It can't be done, so the only reasonable way is to catch them all, then pick out the ones you want to keep, releasing the others unharmed. That's essentially what background checks do.

I have never been opposed to background checks. I had to go through one for my concealed carry permit. My fingerprints are also on file with the state.

So tell me why shouldn't I be able to buy any semiautomatic rifle I want with any size magazine I want?

That so called law in New York was specifically designed to ban all semiautomatic weapons. Which as I have been saying all along is the end game here.

No it wasn't, and it doesn't.

[/QUOTE]

Camel's nose under the tent. The end game is to outlaw all semiauto rifles and nothing you say will convince me otherwise

 

[Dubya]

In fact, he was unable to buy a gun when he tried, I wonder if that was because he was listed in a database as mentally ill. Yet he still managed to do what he did.

His mother should have had enough sense to keep guns away from him.

That is only one case of violence in America. I understand you don't want things changed, but that's just too bad.

What evidence do you have that she didn't keep her guns locked away, as the law in Connecticut requires?

You should know that the only people possessing that evidence couldn't tell you until the investigation is complete. It's just being rhetorical to ask me.

If I had a child with mental problems, I wouldn't have a gun around the house to lock up. It seemed like a good community and I don't understand her need for a gun, unless it was to protect herself from her own child. I'd find a better solution than a gun. That might explain why the mother was killed first, but that's just pure speculation.

 

[9thIDdoc]

 

[Oldguy]

Sure, if you don't mind feel-good legislation that accomplishes exactly nothing.

I like feel good legislation because it appeases the excited masses and doesn't hurt me. What's not to like?

The objection is that once the idiots who push this crap realize what they did didn't do any good, they will push for more and more restrictions that DO erode rights.

Conjecture.

But yes, these proposals DO limit my rights. There is no question.

Do they limit your rights in ways which they are not limited now?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then they can create it without a gun.

I can't create violence without a gun? We should let McVeigh out of jail because he did not have a gun and I must have dreamt that 19 people without guns killed thousands om 9/11.

Right, those militia groups don't believe in guns, do they? Try buying a truck full of fertilizer today! When I was young you could buy dynamite in the hardware store, but then people messed that up.

Stop whining about your guns like a little baby and let the adults handle it!

I have never met a militia guy that doesn't own a knife, what the fuck point do you think you have?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What law are you talking about?

Why don't you post the law or a source to it?

Why was Gregory investigated for simply holding an empty magazine in Washington DC?

I'm not familiar with what happened.

Convenient ignorance.

 

[RDD_1210]

Yeah I'm selfish because i don't like the idea of an armed criminal breaking into my house killing my dog raping my wife and burning my house down.

What does that make a person who wants to deny me the right to protect my wife from that type of violence?

What type of person is Ok with kids being shot in the face at school.

When you don't even attempt to come up with a solution to this happening you're basically saying that you just accept that as collateral damage for your "freedom".

Like I said selfish and lazy

Where did I say I was OK with that?

I also said that Sandy Hook could have been prevented by double set of steel doors more effectively than with a gun ban but you can't seem to understand that can you?

Another thing you don't seem to understand is that my owning weapons had absofuckinglutely nothing to do with any school shooting.

When you said you had no plan, and that there is nothing that can be done. So your solution now is to put steel doors on every school movie theater and mall in the country? LOL. Is that your plan.

Remind me again why you're not lazy and selfish, because everytime you respond you only reconfirm that you are in fact both of these things.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

His mother should have had enough sense to keep guns away from him.

That is only one case of violence in America. I understand you don't want things changed, but that's just too bad.

What evidence do you have that she didn't keep her guns locked away, as the law in Connecticut requires?

You should know that the only people possessing that evidence couldn't tell you until the investigation is complete. It's just being rhetorical to ask me.

If I had a child with mental problems, I wouldn't have a gun around the house to lock up. It seemed like a good community and I don't understand her need for a gun, unless it was to protect herself from her own child. I'd find a better solution than a gun. That might explain why the mother was killed first, but that's just pure speculation.

You are the one claiming she didn't keep the guns locked up, I don't need evidence to ask you for proof of your assertions.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sure, if you don't mind feel-good legislation that accomplishes exactly nothing.

I like feel good legislation because it appeases the excited masses and doesn't hurt me. What's not to like?

The objection is that once the idiots who push this crap realize what they did didn't do any good, they will push for more and more restrictions that DO erode rights.

Conjecture.

But yes, these proposals DO limit my rights. There is no question.

Do they limit your rights in ways which they are not limited now?

Anyone that thinks "Feel good" laws don't hurt them is beyond an idiot.

 

[Dubya]

If that were true there would be more violent crime in America than any country in the world. Since the US is not even in the top 10 in that category, your premise is wrong.

That doesn't make sense, because there are some messed up places in this world. We aren't at war within the country. This is an industrialized country.

Your claim is that access to guns causes violence. We have more guns per capita than any nation on Earth, yet don't even crack the top ten list for violent crime. Want to explain how me pointing this out makes me wrong?

Your question is all over the board. Access to guns causes gun violence, not violence. Gun violence is very lethal. Violent crime can include rather minor offenses and has nothing to do with guns. The top ten list for violent crimes would include some rather screwed up countries, so the statement is meaningless. There are ten countries with wars happening in their borders. Do you really think an argument like that is convincing?

The UK has a population about a fifth our size and probably less than 50 homicides by guns per year. Their cops don't even carry guns. Access to guns in the UK plays a big role in why there is little gun violence.

You may want to continue living in a country with lax gun laws causing all this unnecessary death, but we don't. There are plenty of weapons available for you to defend yourself in your home. We have a standing military that won't allow someone to make themselves a dictator. There are plenty of weapons you can play with or hunt with for entertainment. We can make some sensible laws and stop a lot of people from being killed and we're going to do it whether you like it or not.

 

[Dubya]

Yeah keep believing that people will just magically learn not to be violent. Maybe Santa Claus actually exists too.

And you haven't told me how preventing a person who has never once committed a violent act with a gun from buying any gun or magazine he wants will decrease violence.

And BTW I'll say it again. I do not own one 30 round magazine for any of my rifles because I know that I can shoot just as many rounds in virtually the same time with 2 15 round mags and besides the larger capacity mags are more likely to jam.

And I only ever use my weapons at a shooting range but I will also use them if some criminal motherfucker tries to break into my house when i am home and if I want to put 30, 60, 90 or 1000 rounds into that criminal scum what business is it of yours?

You represent the interests of the NRA and I represent the interests of the American people. Let's see who wins!

Well since I am not and have never been a member of the NRA I fail to see your point.

And you do not represent the American People because last time I checked I was one of those people and there is no way I would ever let a freedom hating control freak like you represent me.

It isn't freedom to cause a bunch of innocent people to get killed.

 

[Dubya]

I can't create violence without a gun? We should let McVeigh out of jail because he did not have a gun and I must have dreamt that 19 people without guns killed thousands om 9/11.

Right, those militia groups don't believe in guns, do they? Try buying a truck full of fertilizer today! When I was young you could buy dynamite in the hardware store, but then people messed that up.

Stop whining about your guns like a little baby and let the adults handle it!

I have never met a militia guy that doesn't own a knife, what the fuck point do you think you have?

I have a Ka-Bar, but worry about your own point.