COIN and Afghanistan

Divine.Wind · Oct 30, 2011

Is our strategy in Afghanistan working? Is COIN the best way to handle it? Should we bail or should we send in reinforcements?

I think COIN, Counterinsurgency, is the most effective means of winning a war against a guerrilla force hiding among the local population. Unlike conventional warfare, it isn't as easy to determine victory since it usually doesn't involve large battles, defined front lines or acquisition and control of real estate.

http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/coin/repository/COIN_Center_Pamphlet.pdf

In the conventional war, military action, seconded by diplomacy, propaganda, and economic pressure, is generally the principal way to achieve the goal. Politics as an instrument of
war tends to take a back seat and emerges againas an instrumentwhen the ﬁ ghting ends.
The picture is different in the revolutionary war. The objective being the population itself, the
operations designed to win it over (for the insurgent) or to keep it at least submissive (for the
counterinsurgent) are essentially of a political nature. In this case, consequently, political action
remains foremost throughout the war. It is not enough for the government to set political goals,
to determine how much military force is applicable, to enter into alliances or to break them; politics becomes an active instrument of operation. And so intricate is the interplay between the political and the military actions that they cannot be tidily separated; on the contrary, every military move has to be weighed with regard to its political effects, and vice versa. David Galula,
Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice (Westport, CT: Praeger Security International,
2006 [1964]), 66.
Click to expand...

US Army Combined Arms Center | Blank Page

Divine.Wind · Oct 30, 2011

The COIN field manual is available on Amazon, but also available on the web.

Marine Corps COIN manual

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24fd.pdf

Here is the U.S. government guide on COIN: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/119629.pdf

Sallow · Oct 30, 2011

As for your choices..none of the above.

I would say that it's sort of working, but the expense is simply not worth it. Afghanistan is much to tribal at this point to achieve a cohesive, functional, western democracy and that sort of thing grows as a result of domestic desire. It needs to come from the Afghans.

Divine.Wind · Oct 30, 2011

Sallow said: ↑

As for your choices..none of the above.

I would say that it's sort of working, but the expense is simply not worth it. Afghanistan is much to tribal at this point to achieve a cohesive, functional, western democracy and that sort of thing grows as a result of domestic desire. It needs to come from the Afghans.
Click to expand...

Uhh, dude, that's what COIN is. We're just there to give them the opportunity to do it.

Sallow · Oct 30, 2011

Divine.Wind said: ↑

Sallow said: ↑

As for your choices..none of the above.

I would say that it's sort of working, but the expense is simply not worth it. Afghanistan is much to tribal at this point to achieve a cohesive, functional, western democracy and that sort of thing grows as a result of domestic desire. It needs to come from the Afghans.
Click to expand...

Uhh, dude, that's what COIN is. We're just there to give them the opportunity to do it.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Yes it's the Afghans but no it's not domestic. That's not "their" homegrown idea.

Divine.Wind · Oct 30, 2011

Sallow said: ↑

Divine.Wind said: ↑

Sallow said: ↑

As for your choices..none of the above.

I would say that it's sort of working, but the expense is simply not worth it. Afghanistan is much to tribal at this point to achieve a cohesive, functional, western democracy and that sort of thing grows as a result of domestic desire. It needs to come from the Afghans.
Click to expand...

Uhh, dude, that's what COIN is. We're just there to give them the opportunity to do it.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Yes it's the Afghans but no it's not domestic. That's not "their" homegrown idea.
Click to expand...

COIN isn't their homegrown idea? Agreed. So what? That's like saying your house is on fire but you don't want to use the services of the volunteer fire department because you want to be independent.

BTW, before the Soviets invaded, Afghanistan had a pretty well functioning government. Yes, there were problems, but overall it was not a bad place for a Third World country. Now, with all of the resources recently discovered there, they have the opportunity to grow and prosper if given the chance.

U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com

Divine.Wind · Oct 30, 2011

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub846.pdf

The conflict in Iraq demonstrates that counterinsurgency is difficult when strategic objectives change
or remain unclear. It also shows that the U.S. obsession
with clear metrics and indicators of success complicates
counterinsurgency. Success in COIN is often difficult
to measure. There are as many setbacks as victories.
National level metrics may have little relevance at the
local level. Local ones may vary from place to place.
This means that strategic planners and policymakers
may not know with certainty what works and what does
not. Sustaining public and congressional support under
such conditions is an enduring challenge.
Click to expand...

Divine.Wind · Oct 30, 2011

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub586.pdf

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE ARMY
• Revise the understanding of insurgency which serves as a
basis for U.S. strategy and doctrine to include the distinction
between national and liberation movements.
• Develop, reﬁne, and wargame appropriate strategy and
doctrine for each type.
• Institutionalize methods for uniﬁed interagency approaches
to counterinsurgency support.
• Act as the advocate for holistic capability enhancement across
the government.
• Develop and exercise interagency techniques to build effective
security and intelligence forces rapidly in a failed or occupied
state.
• Develop an effects-based method of counterinsurgency
planning; test this through robust experimentation, analysis,
and wargaming.
• Develop a small, independent strategic assessment agency to
evaluate U.S. involvement in counterinsurgency support.
• Continue reﬁning and implementing plans to increase Army
units with particular utility in counterinsurgency such as
Intelligence and Engineers, and to reconﬁgure and, if necessary,
augment Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations units.
• Undertake strategic capacity-building by coordination with
regional security organizations and states.
• Integrate the Department of Homeland Security into strategic
planning for counterinsurgency support.
• Reﬁne leader development and training to include emphasis on
understanding and responding to 21st century insurgency.
Click to expand...

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COIN and Afghanistan

Our strategy in Afghanistan is

working fine as it is.

failing. We need to send in more troops.

failing and unwinnable. We need to bail out ASAP

confusing. I don't know if we are winning or not.

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COIN and Afghanistan

Our strategy in Afghanistan is

working fine as it is.

failing. We need to send in more troops.

failing and unwinnable. We need to bail out ASAP

confusing. I don't know if we are winning or not.

Divine.Wind Platinum Member

Divine.Wind Platinum Member

Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

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MADDOW, a PRO lost it tonight regarding babies in detention

Child Separation "Issue" Is Democrat Scam

Poll: do you support Trump’s move to separate children from their parents at the border?

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Before Trump, kids were not separated at the border because most cases were tried in CIVIL court

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