China's aircraft-carrier

[waltky]

China's neighbors wary of aircraft carrier...

China aircraft carrier watched by region
April 14, 2011 WASHINGTON - China aircraft carrier: China bought the vessel from Ukraine more than a decade ago, and it is viewed as emblematic of the communist state's ambition to be a military power that can challenge America's decades-long supremacy in the west Pacific.

China's first aircraft carrier could begin sea trials as early as this summer and its deployment would significantly change the perception of the balance of power in the region, the chief of U.S. forces in the Pacific said Tuesday. China bought the vessel from Ukraine more than a decade ago, and it is viewed as emblematic of the communist state's ambition to be a military power that can challenge America's decades-long supremacy in the west Pacific. China's state news agency this month carried photos of the carrier in what it said was the final stages of reconstruction.

"Based on the feedback from our partners and allies in the Pacific, I think the change in perception by the region will be significant," Adm. Robert Willard told the Senate Armed Services Committee. Willard also noted the "remarkable growth" of China's military. But he viewed that impact as largely symbolic, as there would be a long period of training, development and exercises before the carrier becomes operational. The U.S. Pacific Command led by Willard has five aircraft carrier strike groups, which it has used to project American power across a region key to global trade. However, China's military build-up, which includes the rapid development of ballistic missiles and cyber warfare capabilities, has spooked its neighbors and could potentially crimp the U.S. forces' freedom to operate.

Willard said that China has increased and improved its fleet of both conventional and nuclear-powered submarines, which had prompted a proliferation of submarines in the Asia-Pacific. He mentioned Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Australia as countries that have either acquired or signaled their intention to acquire or expand their submarine fleets. However, Willard said that China's navy has been less aggressive in its operations this year than last. He described that as a "retrenchment" by China following U.S. statements that it has a national interest in the peaceful resolution of territorial disputes in the South China Sea — where China's claims of sovereignty are challenged by several countries in southeast Asia.

"While we continue to experience their shadowing of some of our ships and so forth that are operating in these waters, we have not seen the same level of assertiveness in 2011 that we witnessed in 2010," he said. Willard also attributed this to the U.S. and China resuming military-to-military relations. The ties had been suspended over U.S. arms sales to Taiwan. Gen. Walter Sharp, commander of U.S. forces in South Korea, said American troops should remain on the volatile Korean peninsula for the "foreseeable future" because of the threat posed by North Korea. He said he did not see North Korean leader Kim Jong Il giving up his nuclear capability as he believes it vital for his regime's survival.

Source

 

[waltky]

Next thing ya know dey'll be havin' stealth helicopters...

ANALYSIS: China’s new aircraft carrier changes strategic map
Mon, May 02, 2011 - RISING THREAT:While it may be years before China’s aircraft carrier provides any real threat, it joins the J-15 fighter jet in ratcheting up the risks for US forces in the region

Reports last month that China’s first aircraft carrier could embark on its maiden voyage sometime this year, added to speculation that the Chinese navy’s first -carrier-based aircraft could be operational by 2015, point to the high likelihood that Taiwan’s security dilemma is about to become even more complex. That said, Taipei and the region need not panic just yet, analysts say. After nearly nine years of refurbishing work at a port in Dalian, Chinese military enthusiasts and media say that the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) first aircraft carrier — acquired from Ukraine in 1998 — could set sail as early as this summer.

Although the Varyag, which reports claim will be renamed “Shi Lang,” after a Qing Dynasty admiral, has been officially advertised as a training platform, analysts say that it could also serve combat purposes. The Varyag still lacks some of its more high-tech features, such as phased array radars and surface-to-air missiles, and those features are unlikely to be fully installed when the carrier sets out on its first journey. Questions also remain about the engine that will be used to propel it, as the hull acquired in 1998 reportedly did not come with an engine or, if it did, it had been deliberately damaged as the result of foreign political pressure on Kiev.

PLAN pilots also have very little experience with the hazardous takeoffs and landings on an aircraft carrier, and those aircraft — such as the Russian-made Sukhoi-33 and China’s J-15 Flying Shark, which unconfirmed reports claim is nearing completion — have yet to prove their combat effectiveness. All of this means that the Varyag is unlikely to serve as an actual combat platform for a few years. However, that time will come and unless Taiwan, regional powers and the region’s sole guarantor of security, the US, react accordingly, when that time does come, it has the potential to be a game changer.

When asked by the Taipei Times to comment on what the back-to-back announcements meant for regional security, James Holmes, associate professor of strategy at the US Naval War College, said that the news was expected. “We’ve known the ship is coming for some time now, so it makes sense they’d be working on an air wing. If the J-15 is indeed fully ready to go by 2015, that will probably coincide with when the ship is fully ready to go,” he said on Wednesday.

More ANALYSIS: China?s new aircraft carrier changes strategic map - Taipei Times

 

[waltky]

The 300m (990ft) carrier, under construction in Dalian, is thought to be nearly finished...

China aircraft carrier confirmed by general
8 June 2011 - The head of China's General Staff of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) has confirmed that China's first aircraft carrier is under construction.

Gen Chen Bingde refused to say when the carrier - a remodelled Soviet-era vessel, the Varyag - would be ready. A member of his staff said the carrier would pose no threat to other nations. The 300m (990ft) carrier, which is being built in the north-east port of Dalian, has been one of China's worst-kept secrets, analysts say. Gen Chen made his comments to the Chinese-language Hong Kong Commercial Daily newspaper.

Symbol of power

The PLA - the largest army in the world - is hugely secretive about its defence programme. The carrier was constructed in the 1980s for the Soviet navy but was never completed. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the rusting hull of the Varyag sat in dockyards in Ukraine. A Chinese company with links to the PLA bought the Varyag claiming it wanted to turn it into a floating casino in Macau.

The carrier is thought to be nearly finished, and is expected to begin sea trials later this year. But the BBC's Michael Bristow in Beijing says that does not mean it will then be ready to undertake operational duties. Learning how to operate it - and fly planes off it - will take a few more years to master, our correspondent says.

Lt Gen Qi Jianguo, assistant chief of the general staff, told the Hong Kong Commercial Daily that even after the aircraft carrier was deployed, it would "definitely not sail to other countries' territorial waters". "All of the great nations in the world own aircraft carriers - they are symbols of a great nation," he was quoted as saying. Lt Gen Qi said China had always followed a "defensive" principle for its military strategy.

More BBC News - China aircraft carrier confirmed by general

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I'm not sweating aircraft carriers.... It's the missile platforms of the subs you gotta worry about.

 

[Trajan]

ACC ops takes time to learn and perfect. This is a long term issue.
If they have truly dumped the slot machines replaced the engines and are going to take this scow to sea, then they have at least made a commitment to a true blue water navy with the ability to project.

That can be worrisome but its decades away, if that thing sails in 2015, it will take them a few years to understand shipboard flight ops characteristics, coordination of logistics etc etc ... whats right whats wrong and then they will commit to design their own Aircraft Carrier for their aircraft....and at the end of the day, theres always the great unknown, having no experience in naval ops of this magnitude, there will be things they don't know, they don't know....

 

[martybegan]

ACC ops takes time to learn and perfect. This is a long term issue.
If they have truly dumped the slot machines replaced the engines and are going to take this scow to sea, then they have at least made a commitment to a true blue water navy with the ability to project.

That can be worrisome but its decades away, if that thing sails in 2015, it will take them a few years to understand shipboard flight ops characteristics, coordination of logistics etc etc ... whats right whats wrong and then they will commit to design their own Aircraft Carrier for their aircraft....and at the end of the day, theres always the great unknown, having no experience in naval ops of this magnitude, there will be things they don't know, they don't know....

They had better practice ASW as well, or all the carrier really becomes is "target number 1"

 

[waltky]

Mebbe it'll spring a leak...

China readies aircraft carrier for sea test
Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - WATERY TENSIONS:A Hong Kong newspaper said the PLA hopes the sea trials starting on July 1 ‘will show the strength of the Chinese maritime forces to deter other nations’

China’s first aircraft carrier — a remodelled Soviet-era vessel — will go on sea trials next week, a report said yesterday, amid escalating tensions in the South China Sea. China’s top military official reportedly confirmed earlier this month that Beijing is building a huge aircraft carrier, the first acknowledgement of the ship’s existence. The Hong Kong Commercial Daily, which broke the story of the vessel’s confirmation, quoted unnamed military sources saying the carrier will go on sea trials on July 1, but will not be officially launched until October next year.

The sources said the test has been expedited in view of rising tensions in the South China Sea over the Spratly Islands in recent weeks. China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) “hopes it will show the strength of the Chinese maritime forces to deter other nations which are eyeing the South China Sea in order to calm tensions,” the sources said. They added that the sea trial date was also picked to celebrate the 90th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party, but said that factors such as weather could affect the planned test run. The PLA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Tensions between Beijing and other rival claimants to the strategically vital South China Sea have heightened recently. China has claimed mineral rights around the Spratly Islands, and said foreign navies cannot sail through the area without Beijing’s permission. In September, Japan and China also clashed over the disputed Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea. Chinese officials have previously said that its first aircraft carrier would not pose a threat to other nations, in accordance with Beijing’s defensive military strategy.

The aircraft carrier plan was confirmed when the Chief of the General Staff of the People’s Liberation Army, General Chen Bingde, confirmed the ship’s existence in an interview with the Hong Kong paper. He said the 300m former Soviet carrier, originally called the Varyag, was being overhauled. The ship is currently based in Dalian. An expert on China’s military has reportedly said the carrier would be used for training and as a model for a future indigenously built ship. The Varyag was originally built for the Soviet navy, but construction was interrupted by the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

More China readies aircraft carrier for sea test - Taipei Times

 

[Trajan]

this is why in the end china has opted for this route-

India-
INS Vishal- Conventional-powered CATOBAR carrier,65,000 tonnes, laid down- Mid 2011, sea trials- 2015 commissioning-2017.

its not a STOVL 'harrier carrier'AC, its the real deal.

They have one stovl AC, and are commissioning another this year....

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says dey gonna neutralize all our carriers an' den dey gonna come over here an foreclose onna White House...

Official confirms ‘carrier killer’ is being developed
Thu, Jul 14, 2011 - GAME CHANGER: Reports claim the Dong Feng 21D anti-ship missile has a range of almost 3,000km, nearly twice as long as previously assessed by the US military

People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Chief of General Staff Chen Bingde confirmed earlier this week that China was developing the Dong Feng 21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), the first Chinese official to publicly state that the missile is in development. His comments came as the English-language China Daily reported that the DF-21D had a range of 2,700km, well beyond assessments by the Office of Naval Intelligence last year, which put it at about 1,500km. The missile, which is capable of hitting moving targets at sea and is seen as a potential threat to aircraft carrier battle groups, would represent a powerful deterrent to the US Navy in the Pacific.

However, Chen said the DF-21D, which can be fired from mobile land-based launchers, was still in the research, development and testing stage, adding that such high-tech devices were difficult to bring to maturity. “The missile is still undergoing experimental testing and it will be used as a defensive weapon when it is successfully developed, not an offensive one,” Chen told reporters. Its development “requires funding inputs, advanced technology and high-quality talented personnel ... these are all fundamental factors constraining its development,” Xinhua news agency quoted Chen as saying, in comments that were ostensibly intended for a domestic audience.

Chen made similar comments during a press conference alongside US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen, who is currently visiting China, earlier this week. Although Chen’s references to a technological bottleneck could be seen as counterproductive in terms of presenting the US and other regional powers with a deterrent, Andrew Erickson, associate professor of strategy at the US Naval War College, said the public mention by a top official was a sign that the DF-21D was likely nearing operational capability. “Chen would likely not be mentioning China’s ASBM in public if the PLA were not confident that it was maturing effectively and already had reached the necessary development level to begin to credibly shape regional strategic thinking in Beijing’s favor,” he wrote on Tuesday. In an interview with the Asahi Shimbun last year, Admiral Robert Willard, head of the US Pacific Command, said the DF-21D had reached “initial operational capability,” but it would need several more years of testing.

According to experts, the US and Chinese may have different interpretations of what is meant by operational. In March, National Security Bureau Director Tsai Der-sheng told the legislature that the anti-ship missile was already deployed. Although the DF-21D’s alleged extended range has yet to be independently confirmed, Rick Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington, said advances in fuel and in missile aerodynamics, as well as a reduction in payload, made a 2,700km range “quite plausible.” Earlier this year, the same company that makes the DF-21D announced it would field a 4,000km-range intermediate range ballistic missile by 2015. A 2,700km version of the DF-21D is therefore well within their capabilities, he said.

MORE

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says dey gonna load dat 200 million man army up on it an' come over here an' repossess the White House...

China's First Carrier Begins Sea Trial
August 09, 2011 - China's first aircraft carrier has left the shipyard for a long-awaited sea trial.

The refitted old Soviet vessel left the northeastern port of Dalian early Wednesday. Officials said the trial was on schedule and that afterwards the ship will dock for further work.

Concerns were raised about China's military build-up when it purchased the stripped-down hull of the vessel from Ukraine in 1998. China's defense ministry said last month that the carrier will be used for training and research.

The carrier was originally built by the Soviet Union, but was not completed before the communist state collapsed in 1991. The vessel was subsequently transferred to Ukraine, which sold it to China after stripping most of its fittings.

Source

 

[Baruch Menachem]

A second hand Russian ship with a hull already 10 years out of date and no knowledge of what most of the questions are. They are going to need lots of lessons. I dont' know who they are going to use for teachers. The French Aircraft carriers are a bad joke, the Indians hate their guts and the concept of a Chinese aircraft carrier is something they really wouldn't like. Ditto for the Russians. I think the only folks they could get lessons from would be the Brazilians. And I don't think they would be all that hot to piss us off that way.
This is going to be a long painful learning experience.
Then there is the issue that the Chinese just plan don't trust their air force. In order to make a useful carrier force you have to train the pilots hard in really difficult landings. Air forces in order to be effective need independent thinkers. A dictatorship like China fears independent thinkers. This was the same reason the XUSSR had such a small navy, and most of its submarine assets stayed close to home.

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says, "Yea? Well, dat's dem tellin' it...

China's future aircraft carrier no source of tension
2011-08-11 -- Chinese and American military experts have said that China's future aircraft carrier is not a source of tension for the United States and other nations in the Asia-Pacific region.

About two weeks after China's Ministry of National Defense confirmed its program to refurbish an ex-Soviet aircraft carrier, the still unfinished vessel commenced its maiden sea trial on Wednesday morning from Dalian of northeast Liaoning Province where the carrier was docked. While some neighboring countries have expressed concern over the growth of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, such as Japan's most recent defense white paper, Peter Singer, a senior fellow in foreign policy at the Washington-based Brookings Institution, told Xinhua that he didn't believe the Chinese carrier was a source that could worsen the current situation in the Asia-Pacific region.

"One should not be surprised that China, whose military and economic power has grown immensely over the last decades, would want to join the 'carrier club' along with states like the US, UK, Brazil, India, France," Singer said in an email. It's an understandable ambition from a strategic and national prestige standpoint for China to develop aircraft carrier, he said. Currently, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, Spain, Italy, India, Brazil and Thailand, operate a total of 21 active-service aircraft carriers. Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force currently has two 18,000-metric ton Hyuga-class helicopter carriers, although the warships are classified by Japan as "helicopter destroyers."

Once the still-unnamed carrier is delivered to the PLA Navy, China will be the last among the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council to possess an aircraft carrier. The Asia-Pacific is also an area where aircraft carriers frequently cruise. The nuclear-powered supercarrier USS George Washington has been forward deployed at Japan's Yokosuka, and other U.S. carriers visit the area from time to time for military exercises, deterrence, as well as port calls and humanitarian aids. "I don't think the carrier itself is a source of tension with the US," Singer said. "I think the greater sources of regional tension remain the behavior and unresolved maritime claims."

According to Singer, such sources include the conduct of the navies in the South China Sea and sea disputes between China and some of its neighboring states. China signed an agreement with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in 2002 at Cambodian capital Phnom Penh, which seeks regional stability by resolving disputes in the South China Sea in a peaceful way. The agreement, Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, asked all concerned countries to maintain self-restraint and not to conduct activities that would complicate or escalate disputes such as inhabiting the uninhabited islands and reefs.

More China's future aircraft carrier no source of tension

 

[HenryBHough]

Remember, if America wants new fighters in a very few years it'll have to buy them from China. After all, Our Kenyan President is doing his all to drive Boeing out of The U.S. and they gotta go somewhere or go out of business. No, their CEO is NOT John Galt. Maybe next week but not now.

 

[waltky]

Granny says don't lissen to `em - dey tryin' to hornswoggle us...

China seeking to ease US worries over tense Pacific
Sat, Sep 10, 2011 - The US should view China’s growing role in the Pacific as grounds for cooperation rather than concern, a top Chinese official said yesterday, amid anxiety over Beijing’s new assertiveness.

Washington and China’s neighbors have expressed increasing fears about Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea, military spending and new high-tech equipment, including an aircraft carrier that underwent a sea trial last month. However, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Cui Tiankai, speaking on the sidelines of the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) in Auckland, sought to ease the concerns. “We are just part of the Pacific region, that’s a geographical fact, nobody can change it — China’s also part of Asia, that’s also quite true,” Cui said. He said Washington and Beijing shared a common interest in helping Pacific island nations cope with issues such as climate change and economic development, so they should work together. China has become increasingly active in impoverished Pacific island nations in recent years, offering “soft loans” on easy credit terms and providing aid for projects such as hospitals and roads.

However, Washington has viewed China’s involvement with suspicion and responded by increasing its own diplomatic presence in the region. Asked if China wanted to cooperate more with the US in the Pacific, Cui said: “I would certainly hope so.” “Of course, the United States is on the other side of the Pacific, so I don’t think the Pacific Ocean is something that should separate us, China and the US,” he said. “Rather, I would hope that the Pacific Ocean would be kind of a link to bring us together ... I don’t know why anyone should have any reservations about China’s role in the Pacific, we’re just part of it.”

China’s testing of its first aircraft carrier last month has sparked global concern, as has its growing emphasis on securing strategic shipping lanes and mineral-rich areas in the South China Sea. Beijing claims sovereign rights to almost all of that maritime area, although Taiwan and several Southeast Asian countries have competing claims. China announced earlier this year that military spending would rise to 601.1 billion yuan (US$91.7 billion) for the year and also said it was developing its first stealth fighter jet. China stresses the “defensive” nature of its spending. However, a government white paper this week also highlighted its so-called “core interests” of territorial integrity and national reunification with Taiwan.

US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton last month warned against budget cuts in Washington that would lessen US influence in the Pacific at a time when China’s power was rising. “We are a Pacific power ... we can’t be abruptly pulling back or pulling out when we know we face some long-term challenges about how we are going to cope with what the rise of China means,” she said. Washington demonstrated its intent by sending a top-level delegation of about 50 officials to the PIF summit in Auckland.

China seeking to ease US worries over tense Pacific - Taipei Times

 

[akiboy]

China's aim is to have a blue water naval capability and exert considerable influence over the shipping lanes from the straits of malacca to the pacific. The chinese have nuclear capable submarines carrying DF-21 warheads. They have a monitoring station in the Burmese cocos islands which monitors Indian missile tests in Balasore , Orissa (India). The only other power that can counter the Chinese in the Asia Pacific region is India. They hate our guts and we..basically just hate them for many reasons.

 

[ekrem]

The only other power that can counter the Chinese in the Asia Pacific region is India. They hate our guts and we..basically just hate them for many reasons.

India Measures Itself Against a China That Doesn’t Notice
Whatever the reasons, Indians compare virtually every aspect of their nation with China. Infrastructure (China is acknowledged as being many kilometers ahead). The armed forces (China is more powerful). Universities (China has invested more in its institutions).
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/business/global/india-looks-to-china-as-an-economic-model.html



There is nothing in India worthy fighting for from Chinese point of view.

 

[akiboy]

In India the people have the power to speak up against he government. We don't support regimes in the world accused of genocide. we don't back shady third world governments and oppress Buddhist monks. We don't put our citizens into prison if they speak up against the military or the ruling party. We don't break the Missile Control Treaties and sell missiles to countries (In reference to China's missile sales to Pakistan , Saudi Arabia).
Yes , India has a long way to go when it comes to infrastructure. And please don't talk about education. India produces smarter , better and more english speaking professors than China. Our universities may lack infrastructure but we sure as hell don't lack the talent or brain. India is booming. if you've followed the indian economy you'd notice the trend. And our military may not be as large as the PLA but we've got better pilots (The USAF themselves have acknowledged) , a strong army and some of the best sailors in Asia.
The way i see it it is in the interest of the world that India and not China become the Asian regional power. i rest my case.

 

[waltky]

Rising China becoming domestic political issue...

Fear of a rising China is uniting US’ politicians
Mon, Sep 12, 2011 Washington - With next year’s election cycle heating up, US politicians last week harnessed worries over a rising China to power support for everything from patent law reform to debt reduction — and their own ambitions.

US President Barack Obama led the pack, warning on Thursday that crumbling US infrastructure threatened Washington’s standing as “an economic superpower” as he laid out a battle plan for assaulting 9.1 percent unemployment. “And now we’re going to sit back and watch China build newer airports and faster railroads?” Obama said in a -campaign-style speech that was aimed at shoring up his embattled re-election prospects, which have been weighted down by the sluggish US economy.

Fighting much the same battle, Republican White House hopeful Mitt Romney on Tuesday made confronting China over its alleged currency manipulation and rampant theft of US intellectual property a cornerstone of his economic plan. “I have no interest in starting a trade war with China, but I cannot accept our current trade surrender,” said the former Massachusetts governor, who trails Texas Governor Rick Perry in the fight for the party’s presidential nomination.

US Representative Jeb Hensarling, the top Republican on a new “Super-committee” ordered to shave more than US$1 trillion from US debt over 10 years, said Beijing was Washington’s largest overseas creditor. “In interest payments alone, we are enabling China to buy two jet fighters a week,” he said as the panel formally took up its mission on Thursday. “Is it not our public duty to respond to this kind of warning with the same alarm and resolve that would be summoned to defeat any other threat to our nation?” he asked.

US House of Representatives Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon, launching a fight to beat back defense cuts he warns will lead to the “hollowing out” of the US military, said he would lead fellow lawmakers to China, Taiwan and South Korea later this month amid worries about Beijing’s growing arsenal. “It’ll give some members of the committee a little better understanding of what we’re facing over there,” McKeon told reporters of the visit.

MORE

 

[Baruch Menachem]

China has the same issue that the Xussr had. they can't trust their big toys outside the control of the party bosses. Most of the PLA is used for keeping Chinese in line. They don't have enough trust in their military to allow any kind of independent action. India can have a powerful air force that has lots of training time and allows independent action among the troops.

In case of a nuke war between India and China all bets are off. And the only real result would be a huge decrease in the world's population. In a conventional war India would probably take the PLA apart much in the way the US took Iraq apart in Gulf War I.

As for the aircraft carrier, it is probably again mostly going to stick real close to the coast and under severe party supervision. In order to make it work they need like 100 training hours per pilot per month but that would lead to to much independence which they can't afford. They will probably be stuck with a huge white elephant and a naval air arm that has a prohibitive level of training casualties.

 

[pgm]

Rising China becoming domestic political issue...

It's been that way for a while. Politicians also like to use China as a scapegoat for America's problems.