Callling All 'Holocaust Deniers'!

[namvet]

Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.

"It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."

Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.

 

[Toronado3800]

1. "...researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe.

2. What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust



3. The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler’s reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.

4. “The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought,” Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.

5. “We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was,” he said, “but the numbers are unbelievable.”




6. ...camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.

7. Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site — the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear.

8. ...wartime Europe into black clusters of death, torture and slavery — centered in Germany and Poland, but reaching in all directions.

9. ...estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.

10. ...documenting the entire scale for the first time, studying where they were located, how they were run, and what their purpose was."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/s...=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ&

Thank you.

I have an Uncle of who has some 4th Cousins left in Germany. Out of racism or refusal to believe his family would do that or SOMETHING he denies the Holocaust.

Makes me question everything he says.

 

[Saigon]

And the vermin squeak and mutter in their dark little corners, the vermin deny the creation of their own reason for existence. The deniers are the nazis of the modern era.

Indeed they are, and well said.

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. "...researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe.

2. What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust



3. The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler’s reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.

4. “The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought,” Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.

5. “We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was,” he said, “but the numbers are unbelievable.”




6. ...camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.

7. Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site — the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear.

8. ...wartime Europe into black clusters of death, torture and slavery — centered in Germany and Poland, but reaching in all directions.

9. ...estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.

10. ...documenting the entire scale for the first time, studying where they were located, how they were run, and what their purpose was."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/s...=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ&

Thank you.

I have an Uncle of who has some 4th Cousins left in Germany. Out of racism or refusal to believe his family would do that or SOMETHING he denies the Holocaust.

Makes me question everything he says.

That's tough when a family member is being so weird.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.

"It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."

Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.

It's not clear that you agree or disagree with the German view on 'deniers.'

I strongly dissent from the view that disagreement over facts, and opinions deserve jail time....

....and with the view here that some words need to be politically banned.


As a vet, I'll bet you support the Constitution's demand for freedom of speech.

 

[Saigon]

I'm never sure whether Holocaust Denial should be illegal or not. I can see both sides of the issue.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing - but deblierately and manipulating young people is a high price to pay for it. I think it's fairly clear that many Deniers do not believe they have a historical case - it's purely and simply political dishonesty and deceit.

We see on this thread how easily tricked some people are.

 

[namvet]

Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.

"It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."

Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.

It's not clear that you agree or disagree with the German view on 'deniers.'

I strongly dissent from the view that disagreement over facts, and opinions deserve jail time....

....and with the view here that some words need to be politically banned.


As a vet, I'll bet you support the Constitution's demand for freedom of speech.

I do agree with German laws on this. for deniers to walk amoung them is unacceptable and make their country and citizens look bad and guilty. they put a lawful end to it. as they should.

as a vet yes your right

 

[Saigon]

Namvet -

You make a good point. Neo-Nazis do make Germany look very, very bad internationally, and Germany does need to constantly reassure the world that history will not repeat.

 

[Desperado]

The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler’s reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.
Logistics? How many German Guards would these Nazi ghettos and camps have?
10 which would mean 425,000 Germans would be working as guards and not as Soldiers.
50 which would mean 2,125,000 Germans would be working as guards and not as Soldiers.
100 which would mean 4,250,000 Germans would be working as guards and not as Soldiers.
No wonder the Germans lost the war, all their soldiers were working as prison guards.

 

[Saigon]

Desperado -

Many of the guards were actually soldiers. The classic book 'Ordinary Men' by Browning explains this.

 

[Foxfyre]

I had been teaching a course on JudeoChristian history. After class, when covering the WWII period, one of my students--he later would become a good friend before he died a few years ago--approached me. He was in the 157th Infantry division that liberated Dachau. I encouraged him to share and, with tears welling in his eyes, he told me what they found there. A huge pile of decomposing bodies that that not yet been buried. Something like 30 railroad cars at the camp, all full of decomposing bodies. The people who were still alive were in terrible condition, skin and bones, and suffering all manner of diseases. He said the sights, sounds, smells were the most terrible thing he witnessed in four years of the war, and subsquently two years in Korea. Something he can never erase from his mind.

Nobody would ever convince him that the Holocaust was a hoax.

 

[namvet]

Eisenhower had the foresight to know someone in the future wold deny this happened. he ordered the camps to be filmed and photographed

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDlBJ26anuA]General Eisenhower and the Documentation of the Holocaust - YouTube[/ame]

 

[namvet]

Desperado -

Many of the guards were actually soldiers. The classic book 'Ordinary Men' by Browning explains this.

yes but many of them willingly participated in the killings and and faced trials at wars end. a lot of them fled to the US where years later they were dicovered and taken back to Germany for trial and execution

 

[namvet]

I had been teaching a course on JudeoChristian history. After class, when covering the WWII period, one of my students--he later would become a good friend before he died a few years ago--approached me. He was in the 157th Infantry division that liberated Dachau. I encouraged him to share and, with tears welling in his eyes, he told me what they found there. A huge pile of decomposing bodies that that not yet been buried. Something like 30 railroad cars at the camp, all full of decomposing bodies. The people who were still alive were in terrible condition, skin and bones, and suffering all manner of diseases. He said the sights, sounds, smells were the most terrible thing he witnessed in four years of the war, and subsquently two years in Korea. Something he can never erase from his mind.

Nobody would ever convince him that the Holocaust was a hoax.

the 101st airborne found these camps to as many units did as they moved forward. from band of brothers. a true story

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHcJtU9dr6I]Band of Brothers- Liberation of Concentration Camp - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Foxfyre]

Hubby just reminded me that my student, our friend, was in the 147th Infantry Regiment, not division, and he thinks that was part of the 45th Infantry Division.

 

[Sunni Man]

Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes

Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes

Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes

Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No

 

[there4eyeM]

Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.

"It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."

Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.

It's not clear that you agree or disagree with the German view on 'deniers.'

I strongly dissent from the view that disagreement over facts, and opinions deserve jail time....

....and with the view here that some words need to be politically banned.


As a vet, I'll bet you support the Constitution's demand for freedom of speech.

Laws against speech are themselves a danger. I believe strongly that the force of ideas and debate is enough to subdue false and slanderous contentions such as these. There is no need for laws controlling words, only education to learn to digest them.

 

[Saigon]

Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No

Well, I have seen some.

Go to Birkenau and tell us what you saw.

 

[namvet]

Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes

Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes

Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes

Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No

Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No

yes. it was called Zyklon B, a brand name for a form of Hydrogen Cyanide

 

[namvet]

former nazi guard sent to Germany to stand trial. just one of many

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlFlRbg_Ww]Accused Nazi Death Camp Guard Arrives in Germany - YouTube[/ame]