Discussion in 'Bull Ring Discussions and Call-Outs' started by Derideo_Te, Oct 26, 2013.
Funny, I've never noticed that.
I have noticed your inherent hatred of women, though.
Interesting that you take exception to him.
Really? Can you qualify my "inherent hatred of women" or are you just another misandrist that's permeates this site?
All your posts indicate your misogyny. Every single one.
That's okay, lots of queers actually hate women, despite their desire to emulate them.
Men can be the biggest bitches.
Ouch, that is going to leave a mark on Alfi's fragile ego!
I was out of internet range when this thread was created, so I am coming to the party late. So I hope everybody will forgive me if I address the OP specifically.
So Derideo_Te. . . .
Disclaimer at this point because Derideo_Te is one of my favorite people at USMB
. . . .so Derideo_Te, let me see if I understand. Are you objecting the response that included an objection to welfare using the most common USMB method of uncomplimentary or insulting ad hominem referece to do it?. . . .or. . . .
. . .are you objecting to his inference that you are a woman and used the term 'sweetie'?
If the former, then that is a different subject than "Mansplaining" and Misogyny!" If the latter, it is a fascinating topic. To me anyway.
Any of you who have ever interacted with me know I, a product of the Texas south, use the terms "darlin'', 'sweetie', "dear' etc. as effortlessly as breathing both to women and men. And nothing other than good will is intended by it. So far nobody has objected either, though if any of you have found that offensive in rep PMs etc., tell me and I won't do it.
And when I use the terms somewhat sarcastically in thread posts, they ARE intended to be mildly sarcastic, and I rather think it is obvious they are intended to be sarcastic and I don't blame a member for returning that in kind. Otherwise, when I use the terms it is intended to be a term of genuine affection and I would like to think it is taken that way.
But then I am the queen of anti-political correctness too. And I think all this figures into that somewhere.
Being called "sweetie" or "fool" (far more frequently) or any of the other terms in common usage in this forum is not the subject of this OP, Foxy. I fully appreciate the use of these terms and in the case of the negatives I take no umbrage because it serves no purpose.
I also did not take offense at being misidentified as female because I was using an Elvira avatar at the time. Such a mistake by itself was understandable and I would have ignored it or corrected it if the need arose.
What caused me to start this thread was because Rottweiler was feebly attempting to claim "superiority" based upon his belief that I was female. The post that I provided was mild. He became ever more condescending and insulting. It was at that point that the lightbulb went off and I made the connection to what my daughter had called "mansplaining". I did some research and these posts fit the description.
Again I might have left it at that but I made the connection between being treated as inferior because one is born female and being treated as inferior because one is born of a different race. In essence this was the worst kind of bigotry and women have been tolerating it for eons. But that is not an excuse to allow it to continue so I felt the need to call it out for what it was. Hence the OP.
And I am glad that I did because it is an issue that needs to be addressed. Perhaps not as urgent as others but we are all adults and capable of multitasking. The responses have been primarily positive with only a notable few exceptions. The misogynists don't understand what they are doing is wrong and that is more a matter of their inability to understand what it might be like to be someone else's shoes, or heels, as the case may be here.
Hopefully I have managed to explain this satisfactorily but if I haven't please feel free to take me task. And yes, the same disclaimer applies in that Foxy is one of favorites too.
Thanks DT. I appreciate your expanded explanation because I think we spend way too much time at USMB arguing or railing against stuff that another member never said and never intended.
I reread your opening post to understand it in the light of your explanation. I am not convinced Rottweiler meant that as a subtle or even subconscious put down of women, however. Had he started his post with "The MAN who said. . . . ." instead of "The WOMAN who said. . . ." would you have seen that as a put down of men?
So I have to ask you why you thought it a put down because he referred to you as a WOMAN any more than if he had referred to you as a MAN?
I hope I am also explaining myself as well as you did. While I appreciate the thought process and effort you put into the OP, it could be as easily construed that you consider simply singling a person out as a woman followed by an unflattering comment is somehow unflattering purely because it is a woman. In which case you could be consdered the mysogynist and not Rottweiler.
I do not believe you to be a mysogynist in any form, so this is purely a clinical observation and not a criticism as such.
I get tired of having to be treated differently on an intellectual or emotional basis than men are treated. I get tired of an underlying cultural inference that we women are indeed so weak and incapable of defending ourselves that words must be carefully chosen so as not to wound our fragile egos and we are expected to feel insults and unflattering comments much more intensely and in a more damaging way than do men.
Personally, just as I see attaching greater power to certain words in the area of racism actually perpetuates racism rather than eliminates it, I resent the inference that I, a woman, is somehow more damaged by the use of certain words or phrases than would be a man. And to promote that concept is to promote sexism and mysogeny.
I agree that we waste far to much time on misunderstandings. I am currently being accused of being a "commie liar" purely based upon a dialog that can only have happened in the other posters head because there is no trace of it in the thread.
If you want a clearer understanding of how I gained the impression that I did I urge you to read Rottweilers actual posts in that thread. Here are his subsequent responses;
From the above the distinct impression that I gained was of someone who was simply parroting rather than someone who actually comprehended what he was posting. The back and forth confirmed that for me.
Turning now to this point that you made;
His responses were deliberately demeaning and the negative terminology that he used was directly aimed at his belief that I was female. I highlighted a couple of them above but there were plenty of others.
Then there is the tone that he is using and that was what fits the definition of "mansplaining". Even after I provided credible links substantiating my position he persisted with his condescending attitude.
The combination is one of misogyny in my opinion and it was shared by many of the posters in this thread.
Moving on this point of yours...
I agree 100% and the best thing about these forums is that unless a poster reveals information about themselves there is no way to know their creed, color, gender, orientation, etc. So it is possible to have a discussion on equal terms about any number of topics without ever having to refer to any of those aspects of the poster at all. Done purely on the merits all such debates would be conducted in that manner. The one in this instance could have been conducted without any inference whatsoever towards gender too. However it wasn't and the reason for that is abundantly clear. Rottweiler believed that he had a "gender advantage" and tried to exploit it. Please note that I refrained from either retaliating in kind or correcting his mistake. Initially I did so because I considered it to be both irrelevant and puerile and by the time I had my "ah ha" moment I had already made the determination that he wasn't worth the effort.
So to you final point...
I agree that it can happen. In this instance though the only person attaching any weight to the terms that he was using was the mansplaining misogynist himself. Certainly the feedback in this thread is that most women treat his kind like the jerks that they are and just roll their eyes and move on.
It is more than possible that I am wrong in calling out this vile behavior and I suspect that it might just be from my own upbringing. In no way do I believe that any of the women in this forum are intimidated by the misogynists and mansplainers. They can more than hold their own. However I see this behavior as unnecessary and degrading. I would call out homophobia and I am on record as going to the defense of those of different creeds.
So perhaps this time I should just have left my white horse in the stable.
Separate names with a comma.