Bush: "I had to become a Socialist to save the country"

[Old Rocks]

Are you claiming the economy DIDN'T tank within the last two years?

The economy has been tanking for a long time. Did it ever occur to an idiot like yourself that if the middle class is continually losing economic ground, that at some point, the consumer driven economy would cease to be driven? The constant union busting, the constant shipping of high paying skilled jobs to other nations could only result in the economic ruin of this nation. But people like yourself have been cheering this for 40 years. Well, now enjoy the fruits of your labor.

The American People now realize how these policies have hurt them, and, should we slide on into a Great Depression, there will more changes than there were under FDR.

 

[Old Rocks]

Bush just lost any support I had of him with this comment. Poor bastard. I hope he has a nice quiet retirement.

I agree with you on that point, Gluck, someplace nice and quiet, like Leavonworth.

 

[editec]

The economy has been tanking for a long time.

Since 1969, actually.

Did it ever occur to an idiot like yourself that if the middle class is continually losing economic ground, that at some point, the consumer driven economy would cease to be driven?

My theory is that we are often discussing this issue with people whose personal economies, mostly because they are fairly young in their careers, has yet to experience one of those Oh oh! moments.

Since they feel invincible, they assume that everyone in trouble is an idiot.

The constant union busting, the constant shipping of high paying skilled jobs to other nations could only result in the economic ruin of this nation. But people like yourself have been cheering this for 40 years. Well, now enjoy the fruits of your labor.

A dropping tide lowers all boats, sadly.

The American People now realize how these policies have hurt them, and, should we slide on into a Great Depression, there will more changes than there were under FDR.

WE need more changes this time, around.

Not only do we have to put people back to work, we have to increase their salaries, green America, recreate our energy infrastructure, deal with global warming and extricate ourselves from two land wars in Asia, and deal with a staggering deficiet, too.

 

[Old Rocks]

Do you fuckers get merit badges for lying?

You are really the most dishonest group of people i've met. You blithely lie about not wanting regulation. When the proof is put up, you ridicule it. You're just absolute shit. Not intellectual honesty whatever. You take off on your flights of fantasy and that's reality to you.

Good, well when you bankrupt the country with your million points of socialism, come crying to me, cuz I got something for ya, sport!

Hey Tech, one bankruptcy per country at a time. We are already bankrupt, just in case you haven't noticed. And you conservatives were the authors of that bankruptcy.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

This is right up there with, "we had to destroy the village in order to save it."

What has happened is that when capitalism is allowed to operate without regulation it will eat itself.

Capitalism learns from its mistakes. Socialism doesn't. Capitalism arguably would not have allowed this mistake because there was no potential for profit on the sub-prime loans without the invention of a fantasy football, lottery, trading hot potato scheme which required an outside persuader involved in making the banks and the loaners believe the impossible was not only possible, but much better than what is possible, and sup-prime lending became optimal.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

A free market system has never existed and can never exist anyway, so that's irrelevant.

Yeah. America, where giving up your dreams and settling for socialism can come true.

 

[Agnapostate]

I wouldn't say that socialism has made mistakes so much as individuals pretending to be socialists have.

 

[Agnapostate]

Yeah. America, where giving up your dreams and settling for socialism can come true.

America does not have a free market economy.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

It's probably true, in theory, that a free market will correct itself. The question is, can a society - any society - that runs a free market economy recover from the depths plumbed when a real life free market economy corrects itself?

Yep. The highly successful experiment that is America and the American spirit is being abandoned. There is hope that this abandonment can be corrected and we can return to the American way, but dammit, get it the fuck together and hurry up.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Let's review a little history, before the ultra partisan revisionist bullshit gets out of hand.

There's a lot of blame to go around.

But, one thing is undeniable.

Liberals have been saying for years that the Bush economy was on extremely weak ground, and Bush was heading us for the cliff. Liberals were saying that our manufacturing base was being decimated by phony free trade agreements. Liberals have been saying for years that under regulated markets and corporations were a recipe for disaster. i.e., the "free markets" are not capable of policing themselves, and require public oversight.


Cons, on the other hand, spent the last two years proclaiming that the economy was really pretty darn good thanks to Bush. It wasn't until the last couple months they realized we were headed for the cliff. A quick search of this board could pull up multiple posts of Cons proclaiming that the Bush economy was very decent, on solid footing. Cons proclaimed that we needed to regulate less, we needed government to get out of the way, and that free markets operated best when they policed themselves.



We all know how that story turned out, and who was right and who was wrong.

Cons have been acting lib, but putting up a smoke screen that might prove to remove our trust in them for long enough where America can surrender and fall. Conservative thought is the way to go for economics.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

The recent crisis has at least proved this to be correct..

That is not true. You just don't understand the problem.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

All of it!

Now be serious.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

The economy has been tanking for a long time. Did it ever occur to an idiot like yourself that if the middle class is continually losing economic ground, that at some point, the consumer driven economy would cease to be driven? The constant union busting, the constant shipping of high paying skilled jobs to other nations could only result in the economic ruin of this nation. But people like yourself have been cheering this for 40 years. Well, now enjoy the fruits of your labor.

The American People now realize how these policies have hurt them, and, should we slide on into a Great Depression, there will more changes than there were under FDR.

So we won't learn from our mistakes, and make more and bigger ones.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

America does not have a free market economy.

You are very dense.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

I wouldn't say that socialism has made mistakes so much as individuals pretending to be socialists have.

Right, "your version" of socialism is the great one, but everybody else is just mistaken. I hope you never have any power.

 

[Xenophon]

Now talk about a complete idiot! Yup, with no way to counter a veto, or even the Senate, the Dems put us where we are in just two years. Actually, less than two years, since by the beginning of fall, we were already in an economic nosedive. Face it,idiot, the American People know full well where the present economic problems stem from. If this does go into a full depression, it will be known as the Second Great Republican Depression.

Another of the simple minded makes an appearance.

If you had half a brain you would realize i deliberatley trolled with that comment as a response to the insipid 'blame Bush' mentality that people like you display, when this problem was actually caused by bad decisions going back to the 80s.

I always wait for the fool who tries to get personal to reveal my purpose, so I can laugh in your face at what a partisan asshole you are, thanks for the entertainment, since you win the dubious title!

PS,

In case you think I just made that up, I revealed my purpose privately to another poster earlier in this thread, yesterday.

In short, grow up fool, neither dems nor GoPers are doing us any good you blind imbecile.

 

[Agnapostate]

You are very dense.

On the contrary, you are very ignorant. The United States essentially has a planned economy, what with various components of its mixed market.

Right, "your version" of socialism is the great one, but everybody else is just mistaken. I hope you never have any power.

"My version"? "My version," as you call it, is the version which aligns itself with the proper definition of socialism: the collective ownership of the means of production.

 

[Xenophon]

The economy has been tanking for a long time. Did it ever occur to an idiot like yourself that if the middle class is continually losing economic ground, that at some point, the consumer driven economy would cease to be driven? The constant union busting, the constant shipping of high paying skilled jobs to other nations could only result in the economic ruin of this nation. But people like yourself have been cheering this for 40 years. Well, now enjoy the fruits of your labor.

The American People now realize how these policies have hurt them, and, should we slide on into a Great Depression, there will more changes than there were under FDR.

^ Partisan moron just doesn't know when to quit.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

On the contrary, you are very ignorant. The United States essentially has a planned economy, what with various components of its mixed market.



"My version"? "My version," as you call it, is the version which aligns itself with the proper definition of socialism: the collective ownership of the means of production.

Remind me to never give you hints.

 

[Diuretic]

Capitalism learns from its mistakes. Socialism doesn't. Capitalism arguably would not have allowed this mistake because there was no potential for profit on the sub-prime loans without the invention of a fantasy football, lottery, trading hot potato scheme which required an outside persuader involved in making the banks and the loaners believe the impossible was not only possible, but much better than what is possible, and sup-prime lending became optimal.

Capitalism has been very useful, I'm not arguing against that. Following the lead of the late T.R. Young I can say it has been very useful and delivered humanity much good. But it's a debacle now. There were no mistakes in this, it was pure greed and probably a lot of criminality all allowed to flourish because of little or no regulation. The ideologically driven laissez-faire types didn't believe that the free markets needed regulation, that they would be self-correcting. As people on the internets are fond of writing - "epic fail".

Pure socialism will result in massive cock-ups - hundreds of pairs of right shoes (ironically) and not enough left ones, that type of silliness. But market socialism might be able to ameliorate some of the problems in totally planned economies. Anyway while capitalism isn't dead yet it's definitely looking very unwell, so we need to start thinking about its replacement.