Bush Bamboosability, He's an Idiot

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Psychoblues, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    George W. Bush proclaimed himself to be a wartime president. In the aftermath of 9/11, he declared a war on terrorism. People are now furiously debating and challenging the particulars of his Iraq policy, whether to leave sooner or later. But it is time to put that conflict into a larger perspective and to realize a more encompassing truth: George W. Bush has lost the war on terrorism.

    By making that stern and by no means premature pronouncement, I do not simply mean that he has left the terms of "winning" such a war ill defined, or that we are mired in an expensive and bloody quagmire (as we are). Rather, I mean exactly what I say: Bush has lost the war. Yet that begs the question: What does it mean to lose a war on terror?
    It doesn't mean that terrorists have defeated our armed forces. It doesn't mean that a foreign ruler will now be occupying our territory and subjugating our people. It doesn't mean that terrorists have free reign to blow up as many of our buildings as they wish. It means something else, something perhaps far more debilitating to our country.
    George Bush and his advisors--despite all of their accusations against their Iraq war critics along the same lines--never understood the unique nature of such a war. They continued to understand the post 9/11 world through the lens of a state-regime system. Pursue regime change, and blow up sponsoring states. Shock and awe with mighty artillery. In the meantime, kill as many sub-state, trans-national terrorists as possible. Then find some place to wait the rest out, in order to kill some more. Mission accomplished...er, eventually.
    But terrorists well know that they are engaging in asymmetrical warfare. They know that they cannot blow up as many of our buildings as we can of theirs (if we can find them). They know that they cannot match firepower for firepower. Terrorism, at its heart, is an ongoing psychological battle.
    What do terrorists want? What would constitute "winning" for them (short of the complete dismantling of our civilization)? Terrorists want to terrorize. They want us to live in fear. They want to get inside our heads, not just our subway stations. They want us to lose our innocence, our sense of casual safety. They want to disrupt our everyday routines, so that we have to entertain the possibility that they might strike at any moment. They want us to dwell upon the specter of their hatred, so that we become haters, too.
    Rape is an apt analogy. Rape is a form of domestic terrorism. Rape is not about sex. It is about oppression, not just physical but psychological, emotional, and spiritual oppression. Rape survivors may experience horrendous trauma long after the rapist is caught, tried, imprisoned, or even killed. That is because the rapist has stolen something that is hard to get back: a precious sense of trust and safety that can and should attend loving intimacy with another. The lingering fear--no, call it terror--that a rape survivor encounters and tries to overcome is that she/he must now and hereafter live in the rapist's version of a dark, cynical, and ever violent world.
    George W. Bush, along with Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Condoleezza Rice, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld, played right into the terrorists' hands. Bush has acceded to the terrorists' fear mongering and in fact has become their accomplice (or dupe) in spreading and deepening their message of terror. The tragedy of 9/11 was indeed a wake-up call, a time of tremendous loss and grieving, but at the same time it should have been seen, in geo-strategic terms, as Osama bin Laden's sucker punch. Yet George Bush fell for it. Yes, take out the Taliban and their training camps. Yes, fight aggressively against the evil of terrorism. But, don't be gullible; don't overreact; don't lose your wits. Mostly, don't let the terrorists fundamentally alter our freedoms--and certainly don't dwell upon and exploit the very fears that they want to insinuate into our lives.
    Let's face it: Osama bin Laden, holed up in his cave somewhere, must be laughing at us. He's calling the shots, and he really doesn't have to lift a finger. Why? George Bush is doing his bidding. His administration has suspended many civil liberties and deftly defied the U.S. Constitution. Junked the Geneva Convention. Tortured prisoners. Oversaw criminal acts at Abu Ghraib. Ignored due process at Guantanamo. Engaged in domestic spying without court supervision. Flushed billions down the toilet in Iraq. Weakened our military readiness. Set much of the world against us. The Middle East is now ablaze in terrorism. At home, we live constantly in "elevated fear" levels (whether color coded or not). Our internal politics have become poisonously divided, not united. Osama bin Laden is playing George Bush like a cheap fiddle.
    We shouldn't be surprised that Bush has been so stunningly gullible. He fell for Saddam's bluster about WMDs. He allowed himself to be conned by the in-house neo-cons. He believes Karl Rove when Karl Rove assures him that it is a good thing to put on a flight suit for an aircraft photo-op.
    The Republicans now want to ride the terror bandwagon back to electoral victory. If you're frightened to death about our national security, they tell us, vote Republican. And thus Osama bin Laden wins again, with the Republicans as his co-conspirators (or dupes). Don't they realize that every time a U.S. military war hero such as John Murtha gets "Swift Boated" by his fellow Americans, Osama bin Laden chuckles to himself: "Why, I didn't even have to pay those guys to be my agents of agitation!"
    Dick Cheney has been making the same case about anti-war dissenters. Just yesterday, he insinuated that Ned Lamont supporters are secretly serving the cause of al Qaeda. Cheney claims that the best evidence that the administration's convoluted Iraq policy is working is that America hasn't been attacked--physically--since 9/11. How naïve can he be about the distinctive nature of a war with terrorists? Why should Osama bin Laden attack us again? There's been no need. Karl Rove and Dick Cheney will spread his fear for him. Osama bin Laden learned a lesson in 2004: Every time he releases a videotape, it serves the Bush administration's own cross-purposes. Better to lie low, and let Dick Cheney open his mouth and do the threatening.
    Bush and bin Laden have become a tag team. They may be bitter rivals, but theirs has become a symbiotic, mimetic rivalry. The problem is, Osama bin Laden has gained more than the upper hand. He's won, because George Bush has been playing this dangerous game on bin Laden's terms. It's time for the rest of us to call it like it is: George Bush has lost. He screwed up. Big time. Americans hate to lose, and the nation is starting to realize that we've been following a loser, not just a losing strategy. Rebuilding American freedom, confidence, and comity after this lost war will require a great deal of fortitude, dedication, and love.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-seery/busted-bamboozlability-_b_26978.html



    Psychoblues

    ps. At least read the article and respond to particulars. I already know that I am considered a derelect with a few of you more nonthinking imbeciles. Let the discussion begin here.
     
  2. Stephanie
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    Stephanie Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Oh my @#@#@@ gawd......

    I guess the 1979 Iranian kidnappings was Bush's fault....
    I guess the bombings of our military barracks in the 80s was Bushes fault..
    I guess the embassy bombings in Africa was Bushes fault.
    I guess the first world trade center bombings was Bushes fault.
    I guess the Bali bombings was Bushes fault..
    I guess the Oklahoma city bombing was Bushes fault.
    I guess the bombings of the trains in Spain was Bushes fault also
    I guess the USS Cole was Bushes fault...
    Oh lets NOT FORGET 9/11 was Bushes fault!!!!!!!!!!!
    I guess the terrorist plot of yesterday was Bushes fault, also........

    Hell, I'm surprised they haven't blamed the Cuban missile crisis under JFK, Bushes fault yet..
    Shit lets go all out and blame Bush for JFK assassination........


    Yeah, we're all too stupid to understand what the hell has been going on in the world....

    Na lets not kill all these assholes, lets just sit down with them and have tea and crumpets....I'M SURE THAT WILL DO THE TRICK..........

    You people...........................???????????????????????????????????:dunno: :puke3:
     
  3. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    The one thing you have right is that you are a 'derelect'. There is no discussion...you hate Bush, you hate vets, you hate the military, you hate everything that doesn't fit your fuzzy little view of the world. So what. Let the "discussion" end there.
     
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  4. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    What I cant figure out is by what standard can anyone conclude that we lost the war in Iraq.

    We took out a Rogue Regime in less time then it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian. We have lost less men during the whole war then one day on the shores of Normandy. We have a Democraticly elected regime in Iraq.

    The Iraq war was over when the regime toppled, much like WW2 ended when the German Reich and The Japanese Empire collapsed. We are rebuilding in Iraq now. Much like we did then. Simply because there are some left over terrorists doesnt mean the war is still on. Nor does the presence of our troops indicate that the war is still on. If that was true then we still havent ended our war with Germany or Japan.

    If you think we have lost the Iraq war or that its a quagmire you are a freakin idiot and have no grasp on reality.
     
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  5. -Cp
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    -Cp Senior Member

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    Stepher's.... it's okay...... what else do you expect from some idiot posting at the Huffington post?
     
  6. OCA
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    OCA Senior Member

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    Psycho there are no particulars to respond to, this is just opinion without facts. Please differentiate between the two from now on.

    But............one question from the article:what civil liberties of yours have been suspended and how EXACTLY has the constitution been defied?
     
  7. Told you So
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    Told you So Rookie

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    I would much enjoy to respond to the particular of your opinion-spun "factual (yea right) analysis" of the Iraq War.

    I painfully read through your whole entire blatantly misguided post, and I would hope that you show the same courtesy for me. hell, maybe even respond to my response...


    1. The first conclusioin you draw comes 4 paragraphs into your rant:

    "They know that they cannot match firepower for firepower. Terrorism, at its heart, is an ongoing psychological battle.
    What do terrorists want? What would constitute "winning" for them (short of the complete dismantling of our civilization)? Terrorists want to terrorize. They want us to live in fear. They want to get inside our heads, not just our subway stations. They want us to lose our innocence, our sense of casual safety. They want to disrupt our everyday routines, so that we have to entertain the possibility that they might strike at any moment. They want us to dwell upon the specter of their hatred, so that we become haters, too."


    While you, managed to put two and two together by defining Terrorist, Im afraid to tell you that we are not fighting a people that define themselves by a definition, and follow the strict definition in their actions. What i mean is... Terrorism, while, by definition is a psychological battle, is not literally what we face today. The "terrorists" we face care only about the physical destruction of life and property of their enemy (Western Democratic nations). The terrorists wish to instill phsyical pain, and physical damage to Americans (as an example). The ultimate goal for today's terrorist is to kill all people who disagree with their political, and religious ideologies. To put it simply, they wish to turn the world of 'infidels' into Allah-fearing obedient Muslims. They want the world to be as it was at the height of the Muslim empire. They don't give a damn about our civil liberties, and psychological fear, they themselves want to control our civil liberties, and psychological fear doesn't give them control over our government (unless of course, they are trying to make our government get more pissed at them, so we'll try to kill more of them- then, you are right, but they are losing, so I am right- its a catch 22).

    2. Your 'apt' analogy of Rape, actually helps prove my own point, and shows that you think of rape in a convoluded manner. Show me one rapist that rapes a woman for the sole purpose of making her fear men for the rest of her life. Show me a man who rapes a woman because he wants to place a woman in a psycho-spirital state of oppression. Odds are, in reality, you wont find rapists that have these goals in mind. What you WILL find is a rapist who's trying to get laid, and gets sick pleasure out of forcing himself upon women. You see, the rapist isnt thinking about the effects on the woman, he only cares for the physical effects on himself. Similarly, the terrorists dont care about the psychological effects, but rather their own physical gain.
    "Rape is not about sex. It is about oppression, not just physical but psychological, emotional, and spiritual oppression. Rape survivors may experience horrendous trauma long after the rapist is caught, tried, imprisoned, or even killed."

    From the rapist's point of view, you are incorrect. Rape IS about sex. The rapist cares NOT about oppression. From the woman's point of view, you are correct in your assertions. But your analysis shows that you are speaking from the Terrorist point of view (ie: rapist), and not American's point of view (ie: woman victim).

    3. "George W. Bush, along with Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Condoleezza Rice, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld, played right into the terrorists' hands. Bush has acceded to the terrorists' fear mongering and in fact has become their accomplice (or dupe) in spreading and deepening their message of terror."

    I dont know about you, but if i recall correctly, the anti-Bush fanatics predicted massive terrorist counter-attacks on America the day we stepped foot in Iraq. Not one of these 'predictions' has yet come true. And if you ask me, it sounds like the doomsday predictions of democrats then, as well as the statements made today by Democrats ("we need to get out before we're attacked again"), seems like FEAR-MONGERING. You blame President Bush for fear-mongering because he says: "terrorism is a threat, we must fight terrorists elsewhere to prevent attacks on America". Yet you stand idle as John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and Jack Murtha say: "If we don't get out now, we are going to be destroyed"... or more recently: "If we dont get a democrat elected to the Presidency, America is going to be destroyed."... You tell me who's REALLY doing the fear-mongering.

    4. "His administration has suspended many civil liberties and deftly defied the U.S. Constitution. Junked the Geneva Convention. Tortured prisoners. Oversaw criminal acts at Abu Ghraib. Ignored due process at Guantanamo. Engaged in domestic spying without court supervision. Flushed billions down the toilet in Iraq. Weakened our military readiness. Set much of the world against us. The Middle East is now ablaze in terrorism. At home, we live constantly in "elevated fear" levels (whether color coded or not). Our internal politics have become poisonously divided, not united. Osama bin Laden is playing George Bush like a cheap fiddle."

    What civil liberties have you lost recently. Better still, unless you are a soldier (which i severely doubt), how has the Iraq War even AFFECTED you AT ALL? When was the constituion defied? When has there been proof (not allegations by Michael Moore) that we torture prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, since when has the Geneva Convention actually been followed by ANY country.
    When did we illegally DOMESTICALLY SPY??! you are referring to the New York Times crazyness. According to FISA courts, and the FISA Act, the US, CAN, without a warrant wire-tap or otherwise surveil targets not physically located in the US or have US citizenship. The FISA courts did not mention anything about DATA MINING, and THIS government, has not (or it hasn't be proven) physically spied on anyone in the US, without a warrant. While the USA PATRIOT Act does broaden the government's abilities in these fields, what the govt. has done was and is entirely legal by US law.
    You say we flushed billions down the toilet in Iraq... perhaps billions is a good enough price to pay for freeing millions of oppressed people who have NO TOILETS from a brutal dictator, and spreading the hope of modernism and Democracy. But maybe you'd rather innocent people in Iraq die for the sole purpose of their religion.
    We WEAKENED our Military readiness?!?! WTF does this mean. What exactly were you waiting and READY for? Thats like saying "The police officer shouldn't have shot the criminal because he wasted a bullet that should have been saved for .... a criminal"
    The World is Against us? I agree, but why should you make the wrong decisions based on what others think of you. Sounds like peer pressure on the Global Level. Nations hate us for two reasons: they hate our freedoms and opportunities, or they envy our freedoms and opportunities. If we didnt attack Iraq, chances are, people would hate us just as much, but they'd find other reasons to hate us.
    Our internal politics HAVE been divided, but not by Bush. Rather, politics are divided by the media and special-interest groups that don't compromise. The country is divided because people were FOR the war, and then when it was uncool to be FOR the war, they turned AGAINST it. Democrats like Hillary Clinton and John Kerry were FOR the War, but when negative spins of the war were instilled in the minds of the fickle populace, suddenly, They were AGAINST it- for the sole purpose of gaining support and votes. Still, Democrats aren't sure if they are FOR or AGAINST the war- they wont make up their minds because they want ALL of the votes, not half... Sad to say, a similar effect has recently been shown in the Republican party. Republicans are now against the war because they want to be re-elected. Also, funny to think about: When Bush won the '04 Presidency, Dems. and liberals blamed the 'stupid' people in the bible belt. Now that Bush's approval ratings aren't that great, the Dems. are trying to be nice to the 'stupid' people.

    5. "How naïve can he be about the distinctive nature of a war with terrorists? Why should Osama bin Laden attack us again? There's been no need. Karl Rove and Dick Cheney will spread his fear for him. Osama bin Laden learned a lesson in 2004: Every time he releases a videotape, it serves the Bush administration's own cross-purposes. Better to lie low, and let Dick Cheney open his mouth and do the threatening.
    Bush and bin Laden have become a tag team. "


    How is it naive to say America is winning when terrorist attacks are being averted. Why, just 2 days ago, Scotland Yard, MI5, and NSA proved that they knew what they were doing, and avoided a terrorist attack that would have dwarved 9/11. 21 people were arrested before a plot to blow up at least 10 airplanes headed to America (killing thousands of people) was performed. If thats not good news, then i dont know what is. Were we at a pre-9/11 time where there wasn't this collaboration of intelligence agencies, wiretapping, and complex surveilance, this attack would have likely occurred.
    ______________________________

    Heres the reasons for the Iraq war:
    -The entire world knew Saddam had biological weapons (no argument is possible, the world watched as he gassed Kurds in the early 90's)
    -The UN spent 10 years sending in weapons inspectors, and at least 16 times, they were not allowed into Iraq.
    -after 10 years of Saddam's noncompliance with UN post-Gulf War terms, as well as failed weapon's inspecting, America decided to do something about it, knowing that no other nation would.
    -9/11 happened, opening the eyes of the world to Al Qaida terrorism. The UN's job since the Afghan civil War, was to keep Al Qaida at bay. They did nothing as terrorist training facilities were built, and voila, 9/11 was allowed to happen.
    -Once we recognized the threat of not controlling the volatility in the middle east, we looked back at old news: Iraq... and saw that Saddam still did not comply with the UN on many issues.
    -That, plus the fact that he never showed proof of destroying his biological weapons (and don't say he "threw them out, along with the reciept"), scared Bush and America. We didn't want another attack from Islamo Fascists (and Saddam DID happen to have friendly ties with Al Qaida's head operatives- just so you know), so we pre-emptively struck a known terrorist harbor, dictatorial regime that should have been toppled 10 years ago. A hope for democracy, and maybe some cheap oil didn't hurt either.

    Those are the reasons we went into Iraq. Dems say: "ITS A WAR FOR OIL",... have you seen gas prices... where's the oil that we "went to war for"??? I dont see it.

    -Enjoy-
    P.S. I hope you read the entire thing, and I hope you realize how you have been mistaken in your claims.
     
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  8. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    We can redcuce it to one sentence if your need persists.

    "George Bush and his advisors--despite all of their accusations against their Iraq war critics along the same lines--never understood the unique nature of such a war. They continued to understand the post 9/11 world through the lens of a state-regime system. Pursue regime change, and blow up sponsoring states. Shock and awe with mighty artillery. In the meantime, kill as many sub-state, trans-national terrorists as possible. Then find some place to wait the rest out, in order to kill some more. Mission accomplished...er, eventually."


    I take it you are not involved or desiring of comment on the entirety of the original post?


    Psychoblues





    Yep, I read it. You shallowness and otherwise bullshit notions really do bore me. You really need to catch up on current events and stop listening to whatever you are listening to.


    Psychoblues
     
  9. Told you So
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    how does that one statement do anything to credit your view on the war on terror?

    "George Bush and his advisors--despite all of their accusations against their Iraq war critics along the same lines--never understood the unique nature of such a war.

    hmmm. war is not something you plan out on paper and everything goes according to plan. There are circumstantial changes that yeild different effects, and thus changes to the plans of war are constantly made.

    Unique nature? were fighting a PR war, if we wanted, we could have leveled Iraq and started from scratch. But rather, we sent in ground troops to die, so that other nations wouldnt blame us for killing civilians that the terrorists hide among. -AND WE STILL GET yelled at by the UN!

    -"Pursue regime change, and blow up sponsoring states. Shock and awe with mighty artillery."

    whats wrong with wanting a regime change that should have occurred 10 years ago? Saddam should have been ousted, and the people of Iraq freed from his regime of terror. Shock and awe with mighty artillery?! if we wanted to shock and awe, we would have used a nuclear weapon- that would be pretty damn shocking and awe-inspiring.

    In the meantime, kill as many sub-state, trans-national terrorists as possible. Then find some place to wait the rest out, in order to kill some more. Mission accomplished...er, eventually."

    I see no issue with killing as many sub-state, trans-national terrorists as possible. The less terrorists there are, the better off we are.

    While destroying all terrorists is highly improbable, destroying the networks of terror cells around the globe, and making the world aware of the threat these people pose is what will work.

    Its called: doing all that you can to prevent attacks. While you, on the other hand, would rather just give up and remain idle as islamo-fascists terrorize the world.


    and my favorite:
    "Your shallowness and otherwise bullshit notions really do bore me. You really need to catch up on current events and stop listening to whatever you are listening to."

    Is it really being shallow to realize the threat we face? What will it take to get these 'Bullshit notions' across to you and liberals around the world? If Osama Bin Laden shot your family you still would find reason to blame America... IT will take massive attacks on western countries (especially Europe) to finally get them to open their eyes to the threat, and stop appeasing Arabs and arab nations. They say "we want diplomacy"... well while we're all talking about how socialized universal healthcare will be great, the terrorist organizations are thinking of new ways to destroy our very foundations of freedom and democracy. They live for nothing else. You are very naive of the danger that we face today, but you are not alone, most of Europe and a lot of people in the US are also very naive. You and they think you live in this fairy-tale world where no one would want to hurt you if you leave them alone. But remember... there is no such thing as avoiding war, only postponing it to the advantage of others.

    I wish that terrorist attacks in the future wont kill hundreds of thousands of people, but unfortunately, thats what it might take to get some sort of reaction out of the appeasing lefties.

    As for the rest of my previous post- im pretty sure I shot you down on all- if not -most of your 'conclusions'. However, Im glad you took it lightly -i believe you were 'bored' while having the truth spoon-fed to you.
    :clap:

    P.S. I would like you to enlighten me about these "Bullshit notions" i supposedly have? please point out specific examples of the bullshit, if you are to make broad opinionated claims without factual basis (kind of like your original post), so that i may clarify myself- apparently you are 'bamboosled'.
     
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  10. trobinett
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    trobinett Senior Member

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    So, did you ever hear the one about the guy who started a thread, and NO ONE responded?

    He died, and it was a GOOD thing.:smoke:
     
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