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Buchanan: Hitler didnt want war
- Thread starter Jay Canuck
- Start date
- May 20, 2009
- 144,267
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- 2,330
While I'm at what?You might want to look up Joe Kennedy while you're at it.
and what for?
well .......
Joe was a big fan of Hitler. He had that in common with Prescott Bush
- May 20, 2009
- 144,267
- 66,579
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What???We might now have a modern Democrat Party had be been successful in that effort.
I consider The Modern Dem Party to be nothing more than the Soviet Shock Army and is probably inflicting more damage on our economy and civilization that even a Soviet Tank Army ever could
Oh, I seeWhat???We might now have a modern Democrat Party had be been successful in that effort.
I consider The Modern Dem Party to be nothing more than the Soviet Shock Army and is probably inflicting more damage on our economy and civilization that even a Soviet Tank Army ever could
Excerpt:
Pat Buchanan is coming under fire for arguing that Hitler didnt want a European war, and that World War II could have been avoided if Poland had agreed to hand over Gdansk to Germany.
He even appears to have implied that the Holocaust wouldnt have happened if the Allied powers hadnt guaranteed Polands security. Buchanan wrote:
The German-Polish war (sic) had come out of a quarrel over a town the size of Ocean City, Md., in summer. Danzig, 95 percent German, had been severed from Germany at Versailles in violation of Woodrow Wilsons principle of self-determination. Even British leaders thought Danzig should be returned.
Why did Warsaw not negotiate with Berlin, which was hinting at an offer of compensatory territory in Slovakia? Because the Poles had a war guarantee from Britain that, should Germany attack, Britain and her empire would come to Polands rescue.
Buchanan followed his assertion that Poland could have prevented the war with an argument that Hitler was not interested in a broad war to conquer the world. -
Link
The Germans and particularly the Naziis saw themselves as defenders of Europe against Bolshivism.
Buchanan is completely wrong on this account. Hitler did not want war with England and France, his goal was to destroy Bolshivism and occupy Russia, Poland was in the way. Demanding the return of the "corridor" was just one step towards that goal. BTW Danzig was a "free city" and was used by Hitler as leverage against the Poles. Hitler saw England as a natural ally against Bolshivism and was suprised and disappointed when England declared war on Germany. As for the holocaust being stopped, I seriously doubt it, Hitler and the Naziis had taken Eugenics to the extreme ends.
Kinda shoots holes in your Hitler/Bush comparison.
the comparison that what Hitler was doing was for defence..... like Bush with Iraq?
You and so many others appear to want to forget one key point with the whole Iraq fiasco. Sadam himself was mostly complicit in causing the invasion. While never saying he didn't have WMDs he not only allowed but encouraged the perception he had them and would use them. Not only was our Huminit intel but everyone else's Humanit intel severely lacking (most nations thought he had WMDs), Sadam kept targeting (painting, not firing on) our aircraft in the no-fly zone and doing everything he could to be provacative. Based on that info we felt the best course of action was to eliminate the threat, a (believed) potential threat to stability in the region and a potential indirect threat to us that had 12 years to comply with sanctions but resisted constantly.
One other thing that most people are unaware of was the fact Russia had people on the ground in Iraq for much of that time. We accidentally bombed one of their convoys heading out of Iraq the day hostilities started. Ask yourself this question, how long has Russia had to learn how to hide things from prying eyes. Not claiming they did in this instance but the question still nags at the back of the mind.
Jay Canuck
by Crom you'll pay!
- Jul 30, 2009
- 3,090
- 214
- 48
- Thread starter
- #26
The Germans and particularly the Naziis saw themselves as defenders of Europe against Bolshivism.
Buchanan is completely wrong on this account. Hitler did not want war with England and France, his goal was to destroy Bolshivism and occupy Russia, Poland was in the way. Demanding the return of the "corridor" was just one step towards that goal. BTW Danzig was a "free city" and was used by Hitler as leverage against the Poles. Hitler saw England as a natural ally against Bolshivism and was suprised and disappointed when England declared war on Germany. As for the holocaust being stopped, I seriously doubt it, Hitler and the Naziis had taken Eugenics to the extreme ends.
Kinda shoots holes in your Hitler/Bush comparison.
the comparison that what Hitler was doing was for defence..... like Bush with Iraq?
You and so many others appear to want to forget one key point with the whole Iraq fiasco. Sadam himself was mostly complicit in causing the invasion. While never saying he didn't have WMDs he not only allowed but encouraged the perception he had them and would use them. Not only was our Huminit intel but everyone else's Humanit intel severely lacking (most nations thought he had WMDs), Sadam kept targeting (painting, not firing on) our aircraft in the no-fly zone and doing everything he could to be provacative. Based on that info we felt the best course of action was to eliminate the threat, a (believed) potential threat to stability in the region and a potential indirect threat to us that had 12 years to comply with sanctions but resisted constantly.
One other thing that most people are unaware of was the fact Russia had people on the ground in Iraq for much of that time. We accidentally bombed one of their convoys heading out of Iraq the day hostilities started. Ask yourself this question, how long has Russia had to learn how to hide things from prying eyes. Not claiming they did in this instance but the question still nags at the back of the mind.
[SIZE=+1]No regrets, many mistakes[/SIZE]
by Gene Lyons
Link Excerpt:
Bush told Charlie Gibson, "Saddam Hussein was unwilling to let the inspectors go in to determine whether or not the U.N. resolutions were being upheld." Bush has been peddling this brazen falsehood for years. It's even possible he's come to believe it. In reality, Iraq produced a 12,000-page document on Dec. 7, 2002, explaining the destruction of its chemical and biological weapons. Despite some foot-dragging, Saddam then allowed U.N. inspectors to travel at will inside Iraq searching for forbidden weapons. The inspectors remained until March 2003 when Bush ordered them out ahead of his "shock and awe" bombing campaign. The U.N. inspectors' activities were broadcast on TV daily for weeks. The same kinds of easily manipulated patriots doubtless infuriated by this column were then focusing their ire on chief arms inspector Hans Blix. All conveniently forgotten by Bush, his followers and our intrepid press corps, no longer so much covering for a failed president as for themselves.
Last edited:
And the response:
Breakingnews.ie<World
Inspectors Report Keeps Bush on War Path
27/01/2003 - 18
43
The UN chief weapons inspector told the Security Council today that Iraq has still not accepted the need to disarm a statement that kept the White House firmly on the war path.
Hans Blix also said Baghdad had failed to produce convincing evidence that it unilaterally destroyed its anthrax stockpiles and that there are indications that Iraq could have had larger quantities than it reported to inspectors.
His nuclear counterpart, Mohamed ElBaradei said there was no evidence so far that Iraq was reviving its nuclear programme and said inspectors needed a few months to complete the search.
But the eagerly awaited interim reports from the two chief inspectors failed to satisfy the Anglo-American alliance in the Security Council although any war moves will wait until after another report on February 14.
The White House insisted the Iraqis had not been co-operative enough and repeated that Baghdad was running out of time.
When people say give them more time, the more time they get the more time they get the run-around, spokesman Ari Fleischer said. Iraq is giving the inspectors the run-around.
US ambassador to the UN John Negroponte said he had heard nothing that gives us any hope that Iraq will disarm voluntarily to remove the need for the United States to take military action.
And Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said the weapons inspectors report shows Saddam Hussein is making a charade of inspection.
Mr Straw said the report contained clear evidence that Saddam Hussein is not engaged in effective co-operation. He is practising concealment.
White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said nobody, but nobody is more reluctant to go to war than President Bush.
He does not want to lead the nation to war, Fleischer said. He hopes it can be averted, but he is also clear about the fact that one way to save American lives is to prevent Saddam Hussein from engaging in something that can be far, far worse than the price that we have already seen on September 11.
Britains UN ambassador Sir Jeremy Greenstock described the chief inspectors statements as a catalogue of unresolved questions.
He said: It is quite clear this is not going to be resolved peacefully through the UN process unless we have 100% co-operation from Iraq.
Its not a matter of timing, it is a matter of attitude. And the attitude we are getting from the Iraqis is not sufficient to eliminate the (weapons) programmes we know about.
Iraqs Ambassador Mohammed al-Douri insisted Iraq is clear of weapons of mass destruction.
Blix, the 74-year-old former Swedish foreign minister, said Baghdad was co-operating on access but needs to do more on substance.
Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance, not even today, of the disarmament that was demanded of it, Blix said at the beginning of a crucial assessment on 60 days of weapons inspections.
Blix, head of the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission said it was not enough for the Iraqis to open doors.
It would appear from our experience so far that Iraq has decided in principle to provide co-operation on process, notably access. A similar decision is indispensable to provide co-operation on substance in order to bring the disarmament task to completion, through the peaceful process of inspection, and to bring the monitoring task on a firm course.
Touching on the question of how much time inspectors need, Blix said he shared the sense of urgency to achieve disarmament within a reasonable period of time.
ElBaradei said his inspectors were making good progress and should not be hampered by deadlines.
We have to date found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear program since the elimination of the programme in the 1990s, he said. However, our work is steadily progressing and should be allowed to run its natural course.
Blix said three questions remain unanswered:
* How much illicit weapons material might remain undeclared and intact from before the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and possible thereafter?
* What, if anything was illegally procured or produced since the end of the war?
* How the world can prevent any weapons of mass destruction from being produced or procured in the future?
Blix noted that Iraqs 12,000 page arms declaration contained little more than old material previously submitted to inspectors. One exception was an air force document which indicates that Iraq ha failed to account for some 6,000 chemical rockets.
The finding of the rockets show that Iraq needs to make more effort to show that its declaration is currently accurate.
Blix said inspectors have also discovered a mustard gas precursor during recent inspections.
Regrettably the 12,000 page declaration, most of which is a reprint of earlier documents, does not seem to contain any new evidence that will eliminate the questions or reduce their number.
On the nerve agent VX, which Iraq is believed to have weaponised on the eve of the Gulf War, Blix said the Iraqis havent sufficiently answered questions regarding the fate of its stockpiles.
On biological weapons, Blix said Iraq had failed to produce convincing evidence that it unilaterally destroyed its anthrax stockpiles and that there are indications that Iraq could have had larger quantities than it reported to inspectors.
In the fields of missiles and biotechnology, the declaration contains a good deal of new material and information covering the period from 1998 and onward. This is welcome.
He said he would ask the Iraqis to stop tests of two types of missiles while inspectors determine the actual range and capabilities of the missiles.
The Blix and ElBaradei reports will be key to Washingtons efforts to bolster international support for a war on Iraq and to efforts by sceptics to avert one.
In sharp contrast to the White House stance that inspections have run their course, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said inspectors should be given more time to their jobs.
They should be given the time to do their work and all of us, the council and the assembly, must realise that time will be necessary, a reasonable amount of time, Im not saying forever, but they do need time to get their work done and I suspect the council will allow that to be done, he said.
Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said that Baghdad has co-operated fully with weapons inspectors and he accused the US and Britain of setting the stage for an unjustified attack.
He said accusations against Iraq by US officials were all lies to hide Americas true intentions which he said were to take control of his nations oil resources and protect Americas interests in Israel.
Despite assurances from Iraq that it would encourage its scientists to submit to private interviews, no such interviews have taken place and Baghdad continues to block inspectors from using a U-2 reconnaissance plane that could be helpful in the hunt for weapons of mass destruction.
In addition, UN teams found thousands of pertinent documents hidden in the home of an Iraqi scientist, at least 16 empty and undeclared chemical warheads and illegally imported parts for its missile program.
Under Resolution 1441 inspectors do not need to prove Iraq is rearming.
Any false statements or omissions in Iraqs arms declaration, coupled with a failure to comply with and cooperate fully in the implementation of the resolution, would place Baghdad in material breach of its obligations a finding that could open the door for war.
The 15 members of the Security Council will reconvene on Wednesday, a day after President George Bush delivers the State of the Union address, to discuss the inspectors reports and open an debate on Iraq.
Read more: Inspectors report keeps Bush on the war path | BreakingNews.ie
Breakingnews.ie<World
Inspectors Report Keeps Bush on War Path
27/01/2003 - 18
43The UN chief weapons inspector told the Security Council today that Iraq has still not accepted the need to disarm a statement that kept the White House firmly on the war path.
Hans Blix also said Baghdad had failed to produce convincing evidence that it unilaterally destroyed its anthrax stockpiles and that there are indications that Iraq could have had larger quantities than it reported to inspectors.
His nuclear counterpart, Mohamed ElBaradei said there was no evidence so far that Iraq was reviving its nuclear programme and said inspectors needed a few months to complete the search.
But the eagerly awaited interim reports from the two chief inspectors failed to satisfy the Anglo-American alliance in the Security Council although any war moves will wait until after another report on February 14.
The White House insisted the Iraqis had not been co-operative enough and repeated that Baghdad was running out of time.
When people say give them more time, the more time they get the more time they get the run-around, spokesman Ari Fleischer said. Iraq is giving the inspectors the run-around.
US ambassador to the UN John Negroponte said he had heard nothing that gives us any hope that Iraq will disarm voluntarily to remove the need for the United States to take military action.
And Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said the weapons inspectors report shows Saddam Hussein is making a charade of inspection.
Mr Straw said the report contained clear evidence that Saddam Hussein is not engaged in effective co-operation. He is practising concealment.
White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said nobody, but nobody is more reluctant to go to war than President Bush.
He does not want to lead the nation to war, Fleischer said. He hopes it can be averted, but he is also clear about the fact that one way to save American lives is to prevent Saddam Hussein from engaging in something that can be far, far worse than the price that we have already seen on September 11.
Britains UN ambassador Sir Jeremy Greenstock described the chief inspectors statements as a catalogue of unresolved questions.
He said: It is quite clear this is not going to be resolved peacefully through the UN process unless we have 100% co-operation from Iraq.
Its not a matter of timing, it is a matter of attitude. And the attitude we are getting from the Iraqis is not sufficient to eliminate the (weapons) programmes we know about.
Iraqs Ambassador Mohammed al-Douri insisted Iraq is clear of weapons of mass destruction.
Blix, the 74-year-old former Swedish foreign minister, said Baghdad was co-operating on access but needs to do more on substance.
Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance, not even today, of the disarmament that was demanded of it, Blix said at the beginning of a crucial assessment on 60 days of weapons inspections.
Blix, head of the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission said it was not enough for the Iraqis to open doors.
It would appear from our experience so far that Iraq has decided in principle to provide co-operation on process, notably access. A similar decision is indispensable to provide co-operation on substance in order to bring the disarmament task to completion, through the peaceful process of inspection, and to bring the monitoring task on a firm course.
Touching on the question of how much time inspectors need, Blix said he shared the sense of urgency to achieve disarmament within a reasonable period of time.
ElBaradei said his inspectors were making good progress and should not be hampered by deadlines.
We have to date found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear program since the elimination of the programme in the 1990s, he said. However, our work is steadily progressing and should be allowed to run its natural course.
Blix said three questions remain unanswered:
* How much illicit weapons material might remain undeclared and intact from before the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and possible thereafter?
* What, if anything was illegally procured or produced since the end of the war?
* How the world can prevent any weapons of mass destruction from being produced or procured in the future?
Blix noted that Iraqs 12,000 page arms declaration contained little more than old material previously submitted to inspectors. One exception was an air force document which indicates that Iraq ha failed to account for some 6,000 chemical rockets.
The finding of the rockets show that Iraq needs to make more effort to show that its declaration is currently accurate.
Blix said inspectors have also discovered a mustard gas precursor during recent inspections.
Regrettably the 12,000 page declaration, most of which is a reprint of earlier documents, does not seem to contain any new evidence that will eliminate the questions or reduce their number.
On the nerve agent VX, which Iraq is believed to have weaponised on the eve of the Gulf War, Blix said the Iraqis havent sufficiently answered questions regarding the fate of its stockpiles.
On biological weapons, Blix said Iraq had failed to produce convincing evidence that it unilaterally destroyed its anthrax stockpiles and that there are indications that Iraq could have had larger quantities than it reported to inspectors.
In the fields of missiles and biotechnology, the declaration contains a good deal of new material and information covering the period from 1998 and onward. This is welcome.
He said he would ask the Iraqis to stop tests of two types of missiles while inspectors determine the actual range and capabilities of the missiles.
The Blix and ElBaradei reports will be key to Washingtons efforts to bolster international support for a war on Iraq and to efforts by sceptics to avert one.
In sharp contrast to the White House stance that inspections have run their course, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said inspectors should be given more time to their jobs.
They should be given the time to do their work and all of us, the council and the assembly, must realise that time will be necessary, a reasonable amount of time, Im not saying forever, but they do need time to get their work done and I suspect the council will allow that to be done, he said.
Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said that Baghdad has co-operated fully with weapons inspectors and he accused the US and Britain of setting the stage for an unjustified attack.
He said accusations against Iraq by US officials were all lies to hide Americas true intentions which he said were to take control of his nations oil resources and protect Americas interests in Israel.
Despite assurances from Iraq that it would encourage its scientists to submit to private interviews, no such interviews have taken place and Baghdad continues to block inspectors from using a U-2 reconnaissance plane that could be helpful in the hunt for weapons of mass destruction.
In addition, UN teams found thousands of pertinent documents hidden in the home of an Iraqi scientist, at least 16 empty and undeclared chemical warheads and illegally imported parts for its missile program.
Under Resolution 1441 inspectors do not need to prove Iraq is rearming.
Any false statements or omissions in Iraqs arms declaration, coupled with a failure to comply with and cooperate fully in the implementation of the resolution, would place Baghdad in material breach of its obligations a finding that could open the door for war.
The 15 members of the Security Council will reconvene on Wednesday, a day after President George Bush delivers the State of the Union address, to discuss the inspectors reports and open an debate on Iraq.
Read more: Inspectors report keeps Bush on the war path | BreakingNews.ie
- May 20, 2009
- 144,267
- 66,579
- 2,330
You must be the height of naive if you believe that the Russians and others weren't working with Saddam on WMD's. When we went to war, they realized how bad it would look if we found a mobile bioweapons lab from BioPreparat in Iraq so they cleared all their stuff out beforehand
Your proof???You must be the height of naive if you believe that the Russians and others weren't working with Saddam on WMD's. When we went to war, they realized how bad it would look if we found a mobile bioweapons lab from BioPreparat in Iraq so they cleared all their stuff out beforehand
Oh, I seeWhat???
I consider The Modern Dem Party to be nothing more than the Soviet Shock Army and is probably inflicting more damage on our economy and civilization that even a Soviet Tank Army ever could
Indeed.
Jay Canuck
by Crom you'll pay!
- Jul 30, 2009
- 3,090
- 214
- 48
- Thread starter
- #32
and my response -
"His nuclear counterpart, Mohamed ElBaradei said there was no evidence so far that Iraq was reviving its nuclear programme and said inspectors needed a few months to complete the search."
so there were no long range weapons of mass destruction that could reach the U.S. ....so no smoking gun that would be a mushroom cloud at all
"His nuclear counterpart, Mohamed ElBaradei said there was no evidence so far that Iraq was reviving its nuclear programme and said inspectors needed a few months to complete the search."
so there were no long range weapons of mass destruction that could reach the U.S. ....so no smoking gun that would be a mushroom cloud at all
Uncle Pat's at it again?
He's a loon, but I kind of like him. At least he's honest. He reminds me of the crazy old uncle who gets drunk and provides the entertainment at every family gathering. He's at his best when he has no idea he's being funny.
He's a loon, but I kind of like him. At least he's honest. He reminds me of the crazy old uncle who gets drunk and provides the entertainment at every family gathering. He's at his best when he has no idea he's being funny.
Last edited:
and my response -
"His nuclear counterpart, Mohamed ElBaradei said there was no evidence so far that Iraq was reviving its nuclear programme and said inspectors needed a few months to complete the search."
so there were no long range weapons of mass destruction that could reach the U.S. ....so no smoking gun that would be a mushroom cloud at all
Ooooo, one point out of how many? Give me a break! That wasn't the entire premis for going to war or did you just decide to selectively read my posts? Does the phrase "indirectly threaten" ring any bells?
Buchanan has run twice for the Republican nomination he has yet to score in double digits. Calling Buchanan a loose cannon is giving him far more credit than he is due. His take on WWII is utterly bizarre and has been for a while now. As far as I can tell Buchanan is as close to Biden as you can get in the Republican interms of being wrong more often than being right.
- Banned
- #36
You must be the height of naive if you believe that the Russians and others weren't working with Saddam on WMD's. When we went to war, they realized how bad it would look if we found a mobile bioweapons lab from BioPreparat in Iraq so they cleared all their stuff out beforehand
How convenient. Where are the satellite photos of that?
I have for years been an amature student of the history of WWII
Buchanan's book brings up alot of points that the average history book ignores
As I have stated before.
Hitler was very misunderstood and so were his goals for Germany.
Buchanan's book brings up alot of points that the average history book ignores
As I have stated before.
Hitler was very misunderstood and so were his goals for Germany.
Last edited:
if everyone gives up, where is the war?Buchanan is right. There wouldn't have been any war if the Poles had just given up.
My wife and I have friends near Ocean City MD, nice place.
and you know this because? (will a time machine come into play here?)
Oh, I seeI consider The Modern Dem Party to be nothing more than the Soviet Shock Army and is probably inflicting more damage on our economy and civilization that even a Soviet Tank Army ever could
Indeed.
Uncle Pat's at it again?
He's a loon, but I kind of like him. At least he's honest. He reminds me of the crazy old uncle who gets drunk and provides the entertainment at every family gathering. He's at his best when he has no idea he's being funny.
i wonder how many remember his call for invasion and annexation of Greenland?Buchanan has run twice for the Republican nomination he has yet to score in double digits. Calling Buchanan a loose cannon is giving him far more credit than he is due. His take on WWII is utterly bizarre and has been for a while now. As far as I can tell Buchanan is as close to Biden as you can get in the Republican interms of being wrong more often than being right.
Zona
A guy in ariZONA
There are certain, uh segments of America you dont want to piss off. I think Pat is going to find out why.
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