B’Tselem report delivers blow to narrative that November attack on Gaza was ‘surgical

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by SherriMunnerlyn, May 13, 2013.

  1. SherriMunnerlyn
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    B’Tselem report delivers blow to narrative that November attack on Gaza was ‘surgical’


    B'Tselem report delivers blow to narrative that November attack on Gaza was 'surgical'

    Here is the discussion of Btselem about one unlawful attack.

    http://www.btselem.org/download/201305_pillar_of_defense_operation_eng.pdf


    Btselem issues its report on Operation Pillar Of Defense, finding Israel killed 167 Palestinians and over half of those killed were civilians. And Btselem addresses violations of international law carried out by Israel in these killings of civilians that relate to unlawful targetings of civilians under the provisions of the fourth geneva convention.

    Sherri
     
  2. Lipush
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    Lipush עם הנצח &#1500

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    Compared to cast lead, we held ourselves quite well, I believe.
     
  3. SherriMunnerlyn
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    SherriMunnerlyn VIP Member

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    Btselem conducted investigations of all instances in which Palestinians were killed by the Israeli military in the course of the campaign. There were 92 such incidents, with 51 of these incidents caused the death of the 87 Palestinians who did not take part in the hostilities. The report addresses findings of nine of B’Tselem’s investigations of incidents that suggest that the military acted in violation of the law.


    http://www.btselem.org/download/201305_pillar_of_defense_operation_eng.pdf
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  4. irosie91
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    irosie91 BANNED

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    so? since when was war an exact science?-

    interestingly enough---neither is SURGERY

    very often it is also a BLOODY MESS ---
    in fact,, it is almost always a bloody mess

    At the point that the surgeon picks up his
    scapel----is the point at which the physician
    has failed

    only an idiot would dispute the term "surgical" attack
    with the claim that IT WAS NOT 'surgical' ---because
    there was blood. anyone here ever see a bloodless
    surgery? Anyone here ever see a surgery that did
    not violate some healthy tissue?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  5. Kondor3
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    Kondor3 Cafeteria Centrist

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    Oh, it's a good guess that the strikes were, indeed, precise and surgical.

    Given that the Palestinians routinely and callously park their rocketry and other military assets in close proximity to civilian populations, when you make omelettes over there, yer gonna break a few eggs.

    By 'precise' and 'surgical' I'm sure they mean that they got the Bad Guys and a handful of others nearby but did not rack up hundreds or thousands or civilian collateral-casualties as a less-precise and less-accuracy-motivated Retaliator might... :eusa_think:

    Don't want ANY civilian casualties?

    There's a simple solution.

    Stop launching rockets, etc., against the Israelis.

    Problem solved.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  6. SherriMunnerlyn
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    SherriMunnerlyn VIP Member

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    Btselem concludes the opposite to you. As they have expertise in investigating human rights abuses and you have none, I will accept their conclusions and reject yours. They carried out investigations in every case in which individuals not participating in the hostilities were killed. Israel has an obligation to comply with international law and not target civilians and civilian objects.
     
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  7. MJB12741
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    MJB12741 Gold Member

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    Holy mackeral. Sure sounds like this would be a great time to save the lives of Palestinians by the Palestinians apologizing to Israel for their rocket missile attacks & publically ending their vow to annihilate Israel.

    But then, Palestinians will be Palestinians. When you're already in a hole --- keep on diggin'.



     
  8. SherriMunnerlyn
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    SherriMunnerlyn VIP Member

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    I am noting criticism over this report in comments of posters on Mondoweiss. We used to see stronger words used when war crimes were found. Censorship in Israeli society is I expect the explanation for this.
     
  9. SherriMunnerlyn
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    SherriMunnerlyn VIP Member

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    Are you insane? A Palestinian boy is masacred as he works in his lemon and citrus groves and you want Palestinians to apologize. Some Israelis need to stand trial in the Hague for the war crime committed in the killing of this child.
     
  10. irosie91
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    irosie91 BANNED

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    HUH? mondoweiss is a propaganda site. why would you want to
    use propaganda sites? I avoid them completely---- I do not even
    quote fine scholars like Robert Spencer ---simply because he writes
    carrying the family legacy of being a catholic in Turkey----which is really
    not all that much a horror as being christian in most other
    islamic lands (my information about turkey is partly derived
    from a brother-in-law born there---if he writes a book----I will not
    quote that here either) What sort of censorship do they have in
    "israeli society" are they knocking out access to the internet?
     
  11. Kondor3
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    First, I have little doubt that Btselem's numbers are accurate or close to it, and that noncombatants were killed during many or most or all of those strikes.

    All of which counters the early Israeli claims that no or few Palestinian civilians were killed or wounded.

    Like I said, the Palestinians could avoid ANY innocent civilian casualties by moving their rocket-launchers and unit-bases AWAY FROM civilian population centers...

    But they won't...

    Because they WANT at least a modest number of civilian casualties...

    It helps them with their clumsy propagandizing...

    They could also avoid ANY innocent civilian casualties by halting rocket-launching and other military operations...

    But they won't...

    Which means, neither of those conditions are acceptable to them...

    Then... so be it... the onus is upon the Palestinian Militants, not the Israelis...

    Given those unacceptable and unbearable circumstances, the Israelis hit back hard, once they've been attacked, and after they can't tolerate one more in a sequence...

    The Israelis do a damned-find job of keeping civilian casualties to a minimum IN THE CONTEXT OF the placement of Palestinian war-assets and their refusal to cease aggressive action...

    Given that the Israelis working with blunt instruments such as bombs and artillery and the like, they do just fine in obtaining 'surgical' or 'precision' results...

    Given the circumstances, and the 'relativity' of such terminology... ;-)

    Besides...

    Btselem is a Human Rights organization...

    They are not competent to judge what is surgical and precise and what is not surgical and precise in a blunt-instrument warfare scenario...

    So much for credentials in a military setting... :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  12. SherriMunnerlyn
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    Jews of conscience in the US maintain Mondoweiss. CENSORSHIP explains things like government officials approving all news before it is reported. Probably they even have to approve Btselems report. Certainly puts a damper on freedom of speech.
     
  13. SherriMunnerlyn
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    SherriMunnerlyn VIP Member

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    Well, being surgical is not even an element in defining war crimes. I expect they did not use certain words and chose others because of the censorship. What the report more importantly does is identify unlawful attacks that resulted in many unlawful killings which Israelis should be held accountable for.
     
  14. Kondor3
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    Oh, and now we've moved the goal-posts, from talking about whether or not they are competent to judge military operations (surgical and precise) and results, to 'war-crimes'... uhhhhh.... yeppers.

    It is not a war-crime to drop a bomb or launch a missile or fire-off an artillery or tank-gun round at a military target and its environs, and to hit civilians in the process... happens all the time... when war-assets are positioned amongst civilian populations.

    Wanna look for 'war-crimes' in Gaza?

    Look for the cold-hearted Palestinian bastards who positioned those rockets and guns and other assets amongst their civilians...

    Now that's a war-crime!
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  15. Hossfly
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    Hossfly Zionut & Dittohead Supporting Member

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    Here's a couple of civilians Israel targeted and good riddance. Now someone wants to make heroes out of terrorists.


    Media Museum to Honor Hamas Terrorists | HonestReporting
     
  16. Hossfly
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    Hossfly Zionut & Dittohead Supporting Member

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    Since you took the time to make more than one post about it and were repeating yourself (as per usual), can you tell us if btselem or any other similar organization sneak into Syria and tell us how many innocent Palestinians have been wounded and/or killed by both the Syrian government and the rebels. Could they also include how many innocent Christians have died so far? You can tell us about this only once in a post -- no sense in repeating yourself. Let us give a moment;s thought at least to the innocents who lost their lives in the car bombings in Turkey the other day because of this Syrian Civil War.
     
  17. MJB12741
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    Well folks, we do have to admit that Sherri is always fair & non biased. Just consider all the times she has grieved & protested all the killings of innocent Israeli children by the Palestinian terrorists.

    And she calls herself a Christian.



     
  18. SherriMunnerlyn
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    The title of my thread is simply the title of the article I addressed in the OP. They chose that title because they wanted to use a statement in the Btselem Report as their thread title. What is unlawful under intl law has nothing to do with the concept of surgical attacks. Attacks that target civilians or civilian objects are unlawful. And I believe that is the problem with all the attacks that killed civilians. I addressed 1 of 9 specific attacks so far . There, a boy and a relative were unlawfully targeted working in their lemon and citrus groves. There were no rockets in the groves they were working in.
     
  19. irosie91
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    do not argue with sherri----Isa told her
    "FILTHY LIARS WIN"
     
  20. Hossfly
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    Hossfly Zionut & Dittohead Supporting Member

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    We know that there are plenty of Leftist Jews who would lap up everything that Mondoweiss says, the same way you lap it up. Those Leftist Jews appear not to care if the Arabs run over Israel and destroy her. Their thinking is just like yours. Frau Sherri is going to tell us all the Freedom of Speech which occurs in the countries of her friends. Go ahead, Frau Sherri, tell us all about it -- that people are never imprisoned for opening their mouths
     

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