Bible-believers: What Are Your Thoughts On This Passage?

[Mr. Ofo Oao]

Hi,

I wanted to ask Bible-believers, what are their thoughts on this passage from the Bible. The passage is 2 Kings 2:22-25; in the passage the prophet Elisha allegedly cursed and caused the death of 42 "little children." It seems to me that a prophet of a deity that should be worshiped would be able to tolerate little children mocking him without cursing them and causing them to be killed by a wild animal, but Bible-believers what are your thoughts on the passage?:

"(22)So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake. (23)And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. (24)And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. (25)And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria."

 

[September]

I thought it was fucking brutal.

Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible.
​

 

[Mr. Ofo Oao]

I thought it was fucking brutal.

Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible.
​

Thanks for the reply.

 

[House Mouse]

Because I just this week had cardiac surgery and am on the mend, but still without a lot of excess energy ....... I found this Commentary that I feel explains these passages well.

"
Elisha wanted, by God’s power, to rescue *Israel from its *sins. And he wanted to free it from the *curses that were a result of those *sins. He had already done this at Jericho. So next he went to Bethel.
But the people in Bethel loved their false gods. They laughed at God’s *prophet. Elisha could do nothing to help them. In fact, the opposite happened. Their wicked behaviour offended God. And 42 youths from that town suffered a terrible punishment.
Bethel was a town that was famous for its *idols. Jeroboam made those *idols so that people would not *worship the *Lord in Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:26-33). God sent a *prophet, who *prophesied a *curse against that place (1 Kings 13:1-2). And the kings in *Israel never stopped that *sin (2 Kings 17:21-23).
The youths in Bethel were doing something that was especially wicked. They were not merely insulting the *prophet. They were also insulting God. They told the *prophet to ‘go up’. So they were laughing at the way that Elijah went up to heaven. But that was not something that Elijah did by human power. God himself did that in order to take Elijah into heaven. So the youths were laughing at God’s deeds.
And the youths also called Elisha a ‘bald man’. The priests of many religions were bald because they shaved their heads. God warned his people not to imitate them (Deuteronomy 14:1). So when the youths called Elisha a ‘bald man’, they were insulting him. They were saying that he was no better than the priests of an *idol. And perhaps here was another meaning of the phrase ‘go up’. The *idols were on the hills above the town. So the real meaning of the insult may be: ‘Go up to heaven if you can! Otherwise, go up and *worship our *idols. You are already bald like our priests. So your religion is no better than ours.’
Elisha did not try to defend himself. He spoke in the *Lord’s name, that is, on behalf of the *Lord. These youths were insulting God, and God would act against them.
Bears are very dangerous animals. Our translation says that the bears killed the youths. Another possible translation is, ‘the bears tore the youths’ bodies open’. That may mean that the youths died. Or it could mean that they suffered terrible injuries.
The lesson for us today is clear. Nobody should ever insult God. And it is both foolish and dangerous to say anything evil about God’s servants.
But there was also a lesson for Elisha to learn. Like Elijah (1 Kings 19:14), Elisha had discovered that most people in *Israel would never obey God. Elisha could not remove all the *sin from *Israel. He could not end the *worship of *idols. He could only do what God sent him to do.
So Elisha left that place. He went to the mountain called Carmel, where Elijah won a great battle against the *prophets of false gods (1 Kings 18:16-40). There he could pray and prepare for his next task as a *prophet.

I thought it was fucking brutal. ​

​

Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible. ​

​

The consequences to unrepentant sin is and always will be brutal.....but we bring that brutality upon ourselves, by our very own decisions and actions. Life has many choices, eternity, on the other hand, has only two. It is up to us which we will choose...

 

[Coloradomtnman]

@House Mouse

If you lived under a brutal dictatorship, and the law was follow the party line or be tortured to death but you didn't know that was the law and broke it, and were trotured to death would that be something you brought on yourself and would it be justified?

If God does something brutal, is it justified because God did it, or is it justified because it was just independent of God?

 

[Mr. Ofo Oao]

Because I just this week had cardiac surgery and am on the mend, but still without a lot of excess energy ....... I found this Commentary that I feel explains these passages well.

"
Elisha wanted, by God’s power, to rescue *Israel from its *sins. And he wanted to free it from the *curses that were a result of those *sins. He had already done this at Jericho. So next he went to Bethel.
But the people in Bethel loved their false gods. They laughed at God’s *prophet. Elisha could do nothing to help them. In fact, the opposite happened. Their wicked behaviour offended God. And 42 youths from that town suffered a terrible punishment.
Bethel was a town that was famous for its *idols. Jeroboam made those *idols so that people would not *worship the *Lord in Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:26-33). God sent a *prophet, who *prophesied a *curse against that place (1 Kings 13:1-2). And the kings in *Israel never stopped that *sin (2 Kings 17:21-23).
The youths in Bethel were doing something that was especially wicked. They were not merely insulting the *prophet. They were also insulting God. They told the *prophet to ‘go up’. So they were laughing at the way that Elijah went up to heaven. But that was not something that Elijah did by human power. God himself did that in order to take Elijah into heaven. So the youths were laughing at God’s deeds.
And the youths also called Elisha a ‘bald man’. The priests of many religions were bald because they shaved their heads. God warned his people not to imitate them (Deuteronomy 14:1). So when the youths called Elisha a ‘bald man’, they were insulting him. They were saying that he was no better than the priests of an *idol. And perhaps here was another meaning of the phrase ‘go up’. The *idols were on the hills above the town. So the real meaning of the insult may be: ‘Go up to heaven if you can! Otherwise, go up and *worship our *idols. You are already bald like our priests. So your religion is no better than ours.’
Elisha did not try to defend himself. He spoke in the *Lord’s name, that is, on behalf of the *Lord. These youths were insulting God, and God would act against them.
Bears are very dangerous animals. Our translation says that the bears killed the youths. Another possible translation is, ‘the bears tore the youths’ bodies open’. That may mean that the youths died. Or it could mean that they suffered terrible injuries.
The lesson for us today is clear. Nobody should ever insult God. And it is both foolish and dangerous to say anything evil about God’s servants.
But there was also a lesson for Elisha to learn. Like Elijah (1 Kings 19:14), Elisha had discovered that most people in *Israel would never obey God. Elisha could not remove all the *sin from *Israel. He could not end the *worship of *idols. He could only do what God sent him to do.
So Elisha left that place. He went to the mountain called Carmel, where Elijah won a great battle against the *prophets of false gods (1 Kings 18:16-40). There he could pray and prepare for his next task as a *prophet.

I thought it was fucking brutal.
Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible. ​

The consequences to unrepentant sin is and always will be brutal.....but we bring that brutality upon ourselves, by our very own decisions and actions. Life has many choices, eternity, on the other hand, has only two. It is up to us which we will choose...

I can agree that sinning against a God should be punished, but these were "little children." I just can't see how little children should be torn by bears for mocking a prophet. An adult, maybe but not little children.

 

[September]

Because I just this week had cardiac surgery and am on the mend, but still without a lot of excess energy ....... I found this Commentary that I feel explains these passages well.

"
Elisha wanted, by God’s power, to rescue *Israel from its *sins. And he wanted to free it from the *curses that were a result of those *sins. He had already done this at Jericho. So next he went to Bethel.
But the people in Bethel loved their false gods. They laughed at God’s *prophet. Elisha could do nothing to help them. In fact, the opposite happened. Their wicked behaviour offended God. And 42 youths from that town suffered a terrible punishment.
Bethel was a town that was famous for its *idols. Jeroboam made those *idols so that people would not *worship the *Lord in Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:26-33). God sent a *prophet, who *prophesied a *curse against that place (1 Kings 13:1-2). And the kings in *Israel never stopped that *sin (2 Kings 17:21-23).
The youths in Bethel were doing something that was especially wicked. They were not merely insulting the *prophet. They were also insulting God. They told the *prophet to ‘go up’. So they were laughing at the way that Elijah went up to heaven. But that was not something that Elijah did by human power. God himself did that in order to take Elijah into heaven. So the youths were laughing at God’s deeds.
And the youths also called Elisha a ‘bald man’. The priests of many religions were bald because they shaved their heads. God warned his people not to imitate them (Deuteronomy 14:1). So when the youths called Elisha a ‘bald man’, they were insulting him. They were saying that he was no better than the priests of an *idol. And perhaps here was another meaning of the phrase ‘go up’. The *idols were on the hills above the town. So the real meaning of the insult may be: ‘Go up to heaven if you can! Otherwise, go up and *worship our *idols. You are already bald like our priests. So your religion is no better than ours.’
Elisha did not try to defend himself. He spoke in the *Lord’s name, that is, on behalf of the *Lord. These youths were insulting God, and God would act against them.
Bears are very dangerous animals. Our translation says that the bears killed the youths. Another possible translation is, ‘the bears tore the youths’ bodies open’. That may mean that the youths died. Or it could mean that they suffered terrible injuries.
The lesson for us today is clear. Nobody should ever insult God. And it is both foolish and dangerous to say anything evil about God’s servants.
But there was also a lesson for Elisha to learn. Like Elijah (1 Kings 19:14), Elisha had discovered that most people in *Israel would never obey God. Elisha could not remove all the *sin from *Israel. He could not end the *worship of *idols. He could only do what God sent him to do.
So Elisha left that place. He went to the mountain called Carmel, where Elijah won a great battle against the *prophets of false gods (1 Kings 18:16-40). There he could pray and prepare for his next task as a *prophet.

I thought it was fucking brutal.
Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible. ​

The consequences to unrepentant sin is and always will be brutal.....but we bring that brutality upon ourselves, by our very own decisions and actions. Life has many choices, eternity, on the other hand, has only two. It is up to us which we will choose...

I can agree that sinning against a God should be punished, but these were "little children." I just can see how little children should be torn by bears for mocking a prophet. An adult, maybe but not little children.

Peace.

God was relentless in the Old Testament.

God used Fire Blast on Moses' nephews for burning the wrong incense, and burnt them alive like a fucking dragon.

He fucking turned their asses into charcoal right in front of Moses and Aaron.
​

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Because I just this week had cardiac surgery and am on the mend, but still without a lot of excess energy ....... I found this Commentary that I feel explains these passages well.

"
Elisha wanted, by God’s power, to rescue *Israel from its *sins. And he wanted to free it from the *curses that were a result of those *sins. He had already done this at Jericho. So next he went to Bethel.
But the people in Bethel loved their false gods. They laughed at God’s *prophet. Elisha could do nothing to help them. In fact, the opposite happened. Their wicked behaviour offended God. And 42 youths from that town suffered a terrible punishment.
Bethel was a town that was famous for its *idols. Jeroboam made those *idols so that people would not *worship the *Lord in Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:26-33). God sent a *prophet, who *prophesied a *curse against that place (1 Kings 13:1-2). And the kings in *Israel never stopped that *sin (2 Kings 17:21-23).
The youths in Bethel were doing something that was especially wicked. They were not merely insulting the *prophet. They were also insulting God. They told the *prophet to ‘go up’. So they were laughing at the way that Elijah went up to heaven. But that was not something that Elijah did by human power. God himself did that in order to take Elijah into heaven. So the youths were laughing at God’s deeds.
And the youths also called Elisha a ‘bald man’. The priests of many religions were bald because they shaved their heads. God warned his people not to imitate them (Deuteronomy 14:1). So when the youths called Elisha a ‘bald man’, they were insulting him. They were saying that he was no better than the priests of an *idol. And perhaps here was another meaning of the phrase ‘go up’. The *idols were on the hills above the town. So the real meaning of the insult may be: ‘Go up to heaven if you can! Otherwise, go up and *worship our *idols. You are already bald like our priests. So your religion is no better than ours.’
Elisha did not try to defend himself. He spoke in the *Lord’s name, that is, on behalf of the *Lord. These youths were insulting God, and God would act against them.
Bears are very dangerous animals. Our translation says that the bears killed the youths. Another possible translation is, ‘the bears tore the youths’ bodies open’. That may mean that the youths died. Or it could mean that they suffered terrible injuries.
The lesson for us today is clear. Nobody should ever insult God. And it is both foolish and dangerous to say anything evil about God’s servants.
But there was also a lesson for Elisha to learn. Like Elijah (1 Kings 19:14), Elisha had discovered that most people in *Israel would never obey God. Elisha could not remove all the *sin from *Israel. He could not end the *worship of *idols. He could only do what God sent him to do.
So Elisha left that place. He went to the mountain called Carmel, where Elijah won a great battle against the *prophets of false gods (1 Kings 18:16-40). There he could pray and prepare for his next task as a *prophet.

I thought it was fucking brutal.
Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible. ​

The consequences to unrepentant sin is and always will be brutal.....but we bring that brutality upon ourselves, by our very own decisions and actions. Life has many choices, eternity, on the other hand, has only two. It is up to us which we will choose...

Correct. I'm sorry to hear about the surgery and will pray you recover fully and that you never again have any such illness come upon you. I went through a time myself and am happy to say I am back on my feet and moving around. It feels good to be mobile again. I give God the glory for my recovery as I expected it to take longer but when we pray all things are possible! God answers prayer. About your comment...

As in the case of Elisha, sometimes it is necessary to pronounce judgments as he did in this case because those who were mocking God's servant had crossed the line. There are serious consequences for that sort of thing. Keep in mind a prophet can pray for you and the same day God will heal you of that ailment and you will never again suffer a single problem again from whatever it was that was troubling you. That is another sign that you are encountering a prophet. When they pray? It's done.

Elijah also challenged the prophets of Baal and made a public spectacle of them and hell at the same time. What people do not understand is that the LORD has His prophets on the earth today. Prophets are not an Old Testament only people. Prophets of God walk among the people today.

Ashtara has to understand that God and His prophets are not brutal. They move when God says move and speak when God says speak.

The brutality is in Satan's camp - those who have made pacts with hell and involve themselves in illegal activity, drug dealing, human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, drinking the blood of human beings, invoking demons - that is what is brutal - so let's define brutal for what it is. Hell is brutal. Those who serve hell are brutal against the world and unbelievers who have no covering.

Their power is limited only by the Spirit of the Lord and those who walk with the Lord in holiness. That is bad news for those who send out "ineffective curses" that accomplish nothing against the believers - it is only more evidence to them that Satan is powerless over the believers - God sits on his throne and laughs.

The servants of Satan should switch sides before they find themselves in hell and learn what "brutal" really is. It is good to fear the Lord and depart from evil, House Mouse.

p.s. a prophet cannot remove sin. A prophet can only warn of the consequences of sin and pray the people repent. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict a person of sin, drawing them to repentance and Jesus Christ who is the only one who can remove sin. Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross, died, arose on the third day and is seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession day and night and only Jesus can remove the sins of man. Only Jesus. Anyone who refuses to repent of their sins and call upon the name of Jesus to be saved - remains condemned in their sin and will perish in hell eternally.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Because I just this week had cardiac surgery and am on the mend, but still without a lot of excess energy ....... I found this Commentary that I feel explains these passages well.

"
Elisha wanted, by God’s power, to rescue *Israel from its *sins. And he wanted to free it from the *curses that were a result of those *sins. He had already done this at Jericho. So next he went to Bethel.
But the people in Bethel loved their false gods. They laughed at God’s *prophet. Elisha could do nothing to help them. In fact, the opposite happened. Their wicked behaviour offended God. And 42 youths from that town suffered a terrible punishment.
Bethel was a town that was famous for its *idols. Jeroboam made those *idols so that people would not *worship the *Lord in Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:26-33). God sent a *prophet, who *prophesied a *curse against that place (1 Kings 13:1-2). And the kings in *Israel never stopped that *sin (2 Kings 17:21-23).
The youths in Bethel were doing something that was especially wicked. They were not merely insulting the *prophet. They were also insulting God. They told the *prophet to ‘go up’. So they were laughing at the way that Elijah went up to heaven. But that was not something that Elijah did by human power. God himself did that in order to take Elijah into heaven. So the youths were laughing at God’s deeds.
And the youths also called Elisha a ‘bald man’. The priests of many religions were bald because they shaved their heads. God warned his people not to imitate them (Deuteronomy 14:1). So when the youths called Elisha a ‘bald man’, they were insulting him. They were saying that he was no better than the priests of an *idol. And perhaps here was another meaning of the phrase ‘go up’. The *idols were on the hills above the town. So the real meaning of the insult may be: ‘Go up to heaven if you can! Otherwise, go up and *worship our *idols. You are already bald like our priests. So your religion is no better than ours.’
Elisha did not try to defend himself. He spoke in the *Lord’s name, that is, on behalf of the *Lord. These youths were insulting God, and God would act against them.
Bears are very dangerous animals. Our translation says that the bears killed the youths. Another possible translation is, ‘the bears tore the youths’ bodies open’. That may mean that the youths died. Or it could mean that they suffered terrible injuries.
The lesson for us today is clear. Nobody should ever insult God. And it is both foolish and dangerous to say anything evil about God’s servants.
But there was also a lesson for Elisha to learn. Like Elijah (1 Kings 19:14), Elisha had discovered that most people in *Israel would never obey God. Elisha could not remove all the *sin from *Israel. He could not end the *worship of *idols. He could only do what God sent him to do.
So Elisha left that place. He went to the mountain called Carmel, where Elijah won a great battle against the *prophets of false gods (1 Kings 18:16-40). There he could pray and prepare for his next task as a *prophet.

I thought it was fucking brutal.
Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible. ​

The consequences to unrepentant sin is and always will be brutal.....but we bring that brutality upon ourselves, by our very own decisions and actions. Life has many choices, eternity, on the other hand, has only two. It is up to us which we will choose...

I can agree that sinning against a God should be punished, but these were "little children." I just can't see how little children should be torn by bears for mocking a prophet. An adult, maybe but not little children.

You are mistaken. They were most likely in their teens. Old enough to know the consequences of right and wrong and do it anyhow. So they are in hell and it is too late for them but what about you? You still have breath in you. You are still able to repent of your sins and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Why don't you do it and abandon your "a god" philosophy for the Way, the Truth and the Life which is Jesus Christ? No man can come to the Father except through the Son. Repent of your sins and call upon the name of the LORD and be saved. Today is the day of Salvation. Do not go to sleep tonight without settling where you shall be eternally should you not awake in the morning. Today is the day of Salvation. Repent today and call upon the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Foxfyre]

The story was almost certainly not written down at the time whatever event happened and was likely written down much later, probably generations later, and could easily include some good old-fashioned Jewish exaggeration. The ancients attributed EVERYTHING to happen as the will of God and/or allowed by God as a consequence for rebelling or failing to obey YHWH. Thus they would interpret such a story as YHWH causing it to happen.

And then again maybe the story was just a way for the ancient Jewish parents to teach their children to respect YHWH and impress upon them that there were terrible consequences in store for those who did not.

 

[alang1216]

Of course being innocent is no guarantee of not being punished by God. There are plenty of such OT passages. One of my favorites was David and the census.

KIng David sinned by taking a census of the Israelites. After his sin God told David to choose one of three ways to be corrected. The first way was to have a famine throughout the land for seven years. David knew what famine was like, as he had already suffered famine for three years due to the killing of the Gibeonites. The second choice of correction was to flee from his enemies for three months. Again, David knew what this was like, as he had many times fled from Saul and even had to flee from his son Absalom. The third way of correction was three days of pestilence (a deadly epidemic) upon the entire land. David choose to, as he put it, 'fall into the hands of the Lord' - which meant the pestilence. Ten of thousands died throughout Israel until the death angel that brought the plague was stopped just before entering Jerusalem. David pleaded for mercy and was told to build an altar to God on a particular threshing floor (2Samuel 24:16 - 18). The pestilence was thus halted.

Telling that two of the choices meant the punishment of the entire nation, men, women, and children who had no part in the decision to conduct the census. Rather than take the punishment on himself (and be thought a coward?) King David opted for the deaths of tens of thousands and God obliged.

 

[September]

Many of God's actions in the Old Testament were brutal, Jeremiah, but I am not saying it is a negative thing. A being as destructively powerful as YHWH was bound to do things to humanity that some consider to be brutal.

So what. God is not Aphrodite or Cupid. God is not strictly "a god of love", as many Christians proclaim. God has an extremely powerful destructive side as well.

God's destructive powers are revealed over and over again in the Old Testament. I think those powers are something to be celebrated and respected, rather than ignored- as most Christians seem to do.

YHWH, a Master of Creation and a Master of Destruction, the most powerful God...
​

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

@House Mouse

If you lived under a brutal dictatorship, and the law was follow the party line or be tortured to death but you didn't know that was the law and broke it, and were trotured to death would that be something you brought on yourself and would it be justified?

If God does something brutal, is it justified because God did it, or is it justified because it was just independent of God?

Everyone is to obey the law of the land although we are not to go obey a law that causes us to sin against God. For instance, Coloradomtnman, the government could one day come up with a law to take the RFID chip or we will not be able to buy, sell or trade. We will not be able to be part of the healthcare system and therein we will be arrested.

In such a matter there is no choice but to say no, I'm not taking that mark no matter what the government says I must do. I obey the LORD and the bible says do not take the mark or you will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven.

What is the mark of the beast? It is part of the world system obviously and without it one would not be able to buy, sell or trade. The bible is clear that the just shall live by faith. It is not going to effect the true believer who trusts in the LORD for all provisions. Jesus knows how to keep His own people. The world shall see this one day when America falls.

Judgment is not falling on the righteous but rather on the people in this nation who called evil good and good evil. The people who compromised with God's Word and preached a false Gospel will be judged with the satanists, witches, marxists, activists such as Planned Parenthood and all those who supported legalizing gay marriage and would not condemn homosexuality as a sin, all those who acknowledged the Roman Catholic Church as a legitimate gospel when it is really a Doctrine of Demons - even from its very inception, all those who loved the world and the things of the world, all those who stood with evil men against Israel because they desired the praise of men rather than the praise of God. These are the people who will perish out of America, those who survive the initial attack will die by famine or sword and suffer tremendous judgment when the judgment of God falls on America. It is even at the door.

It is not possible to convince some people of that but for whoever would listen - today is the day of Salvation - repent and call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to save you and He may look with mercy upon you in the day of judgment. Zephaniah 2: 1, 2, 3

It is written:

Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness; it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger. - Zephaniah 2; 1,2, 3

 

[Mr. Ofo Oao]

You are mistaken. They were most likely in their teens. Old enough to know the consequences of right and wrong and do it anyhow. So they are in hell and it is too late for them but what about you? You still have breath in you. You are still able to repent of your sins and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Why don't you do it and abandon your "a god" philosophy for the Way, the Truth and the Life which is Jesus Christ? No man can come to the Father except through the Son. Repent of your sins and call upon the name of the LORD and be saved. Today is the day of Salvation. Do not go to sleep tonight without settling where you shall be eternally should you not awake in the morning. Today is the day of Salvation. Repent today and call upon the name of Jesus Christ.

Thanks for trying to help me if you're trying to help...the KJV says "little children."

A problem that I have with Christianity is this Bible scripture:

"And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations." Luke 16:9

This scripture sounds like it is endorsing unrighteousness...I don't agree with this scripture.

 

[September]

You are mistaken. They were most likely in their teens. Old enough to know the consequences of right and wrong and do it anyhow. So they are in hell and it is too late for them but what about you? You still have breath in you. You are still able to repent of your sins and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Why don't you do it and abandon your "a god" philosophy for the Way, the Truth and the Life which is Jesus Christ? No man can come to the Father except through the Son. Repent of your sins and call upon the name of the LORD and be saved. Today is the day of Salvation. Do not go to sleep tonight without settling where you shall be eternally should you not awake in the morning. Today is the day of Salvation. Repent today and call upon the name of Jesus Christ.

Thanks for trying to help me if you're trying to help...the KJV says "little children."

A problem that I have with Christianity is this Bible scripture:

"And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations." Luke 16:9

This scripture sounds like it is endorsing unrighteousness...I don't agree with this scripture.

That could be interpreted several different ways...

My interpretation is that it is encouraging you to spend your money in a way that benefits others rather then spending it solely on your own desires and possessions.

This can generate good karma that will come back to you.

​

 

[Mr. Ofo Oao]

That could be interpreted several different ways...

My interpretation is that it is encouraging you to spend your money in a way that benefits others rather then spending it solely on your own desires and possessions.

This can generate good karma that will come back to you.

I see.

 

[tinydancer]

Because I just this week had cardiac surgery and am on the mend, but still without a lot of excess energy ....... I found this Commentary that I feel explains these passages well.

"
Elisha wanted, by God’s power, to rescue *Israel from its *sins. And he wanted to free it from the *curses that were a result of those *sins. He had already done this at Jericho. So next he went to Bethel.
But the people in Bethel loved their false gods. They laughed at God’s *prophet. Elisha could do nothing to help them. In fact, the opposite happened. Their wicked behaviour offended God. And 42 youths from that town suffered a terrible punishment.
Bethel was a town that was famous for its *idols. Jeroboam made those *idols so that people would not *worship the *Lord in Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:26-33). God sent a *prophet, who *prophesied a *curse against that place (1 Kings 13:1-2). And the kings in *Israel never stopped that *sin (2 Kings 17:21-23).
The youths in Bethel were doing something that was especially wicked. They were not merely insulting the *prophet. They were also insulting God. They told the *prophet to ‘go up’. So they were laughing at the way that Elijah went up to heaven. But that was not something that Elijah did by human power. God himself did that in order to take Elijah into heaven. So the youths were laughing at God’s deeds.
And the youths also called Elisha a ‘bald man’. The priests of many religions were bald because they shaved their heads. God warned his people not to imitate them (Deuteronomy 14:1). So when the youths called Elisha a ‘bald man’, they were insulting him. They were saying that he was no better than the priests of an *idol. And perhaps here was another meaning of the phrase ‘go up’. The *idols were on the hills above the town. So the real meaning of the insult may be: ‘Go up to heaven if you can! Otherwise, go up and *worship our *idols. You are already bald like our priests. So your religion is no better than ours.’
Elisha did not try to defend himself. He spoke in the *Lord’s name, that is, on behalf of the *Lord. These youths were insulting God, and God would act against them.
Bears are very dangerous animals. Our translation says that the bears killed the youths. Another possible translation is, ‘the bears tore the youths’ bodies open’. That may mean that the youths died. Or it could mean that they suffered terrible injuries.
The lesson for us today is clear. Nobody should ever insult God. And it is both foolish and dangerous to say anything evil about God’s servants.
But there was also a lesson for Elisha to learn. Like Elijah (1 Kings 19:14), Elisha had discovered that most people in *Israel would never obey God. Elisha could not remove all the *sin from *Israel. He could not end the *worship of *idols. He could only do what God sent him to do.
So Elisha left that place. He went to the mountain called Carmel, where Elijah won a great battle against the *prophets of false gods (1 Kings 18:16-40). There he could pray and prepare for his next task as a *prophet.

I thought it was fucking brutal.
Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible. ​

The consequences to unrepentant sin is and always will be brutal.....but we bring that brutality upon ourselves, by our very own decisions and actions. Life has many choices, eternity, on the other hand, has only two. It is up to us which we will choose...

I can agree that sinning against a God should be punished, but these were "little children." I just can't see how little children should be torn by bears for mocking a prophet. An adult, maybe but not little children.

With all due respect and I have been searching I can only find translations for "youth". Not little children.

And this was not mocking but threatening.

You have to understand the taunt of "go up". This is after Elijah. They were wishing death on him and for him to go up like Elijah.

42 youths would be considered a gang by any standard even in the OT.

Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

2 Kings 2 20-25 Bring me a new bowl he said and put... NIV - Online Bible Study

 

[tinydancer]

I thought it was fucking brutal.

Besides Revelations, The Old Testament is the best part of the Bible.
​

I've always done promo in my life. I thought that if I could start a reality show based on the OT I'd made millions.Just think of the Noah season. Or the David season.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The word used is the same word that described Rahoboam at 40 years of age. Not only were they mocking Elisha, but were trying to convince others that Elijah had not been removed from the earth. So they were.......

God doesn't have to put up with our sh*t to be God.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Of course being innocent is no guarantee of not being punished by God. There are plenty of such OT passages. One of my favorites was David and the census.

KIng David sinned by taking a census of the Israelites. After his sin God told David to choose one of three ways to be corrected. The first way was to have a famine throughout the land for seven years. David knew what famine was like, as he had already suffered famine for three years due to the killing of the Gibeonites. The second choice of correction was to flee from his enemies for three months. Again, David knew what this was like, as he had many times fled from Saul and even had to flee from his son Absalom. The third way of correction was three days of pestilence (a deadly epidemic) upon the entire land. David choose to, as he put it, 'fall into the hands of the Lord' - which meant the pestilence. Ten of thousands died throughout Israel until the death angel that brought the plague was stopped just before entering Jerusalem. David pleaded for mercy and was told to build an altar to God on a particular threshing floor (2Samuel 24:16 - 18). The pestilence was thus halted.

Telling that two of the choices meant the punishment of the entire nation, men, women, and children who had no part in the decision to conduct the census. Rather than take the punishment on himself (and be thought a coward?) King David opted for the deaths of tens of thousands and God obliged.

It's that kind of unbelievably terrible injustice that makes me certain that the contradiction of a loving and merciful God of Abraham who would commit such a mass murder of His own, chosen, innocent people does not exist. I mean, what? He couldn't think of any better way to exact justice? That isn't rational.