CDZ Are the poor lazy, or are the lazy poor?

[danielpalos]

I believe we should solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, to lower our tax burden and improve the efficiency of our economy.

 

[jwoodie]

The hardest work pays the least and is the least steady employment, so I don't buy the 'lazy' narrative.

So you don't believe that lazy people are more likely to be poor?

 

[jwoodie]

Why should I believe your assumption that "hard work" is rewarded under any form of Capitalism?

Personal experience (or lack thereof)?

 

[danielpalos]

The hardest work pays the least and is the least steady employment, so I don't buy the 'lazy' narrative.

So you don't believe that lazy people are more likely to be poor?

No.

 

[danielpalos]

Why should I believe your assumption that "hard work" is rewarded under any form of Capitalism?

Personal experience (or lack thereof)?

Anecdotes instead of valid arguments?

How many of the one percent, actually practice a work ethic from the Age of Iron?

 

[Picaro]

The hardest work pays the least and is the least steady employment, so I don't buy the 'lazy' narrative.

So you don't believe that lazy people are more likely to be poor?

I know many more middle and upper class lazy people than I do poor ones. Social mobility has been pretty much non-existent in the U.S. for several decades now, except downwards; France has more upward mobility than the U.S. does.

 

[Picaro]

Why should I believe your assumption that "hard work" is rewarded under any form of Capitalism?

Personal experience (or lack thereof)?

I never got ahead by working hard; I got ahead by gambling, speculation, and luck. A real job is a short track to poverty and early death.

 

[Nosmo King]

As some have stated already there are multiple factors that result in Americans sliding to the bottom end of the scale. In order of importance, this would be my top three:

1. Determination/Ambition. I think you are just born with it.
2. Parental Influence.
3. Intelligence.

So you discount the effect of incentive on behavior? Marx would have agreed with you:

"To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability."

Who says being lazy equates with being poor? What of those working two or three minimum wage jobs? They cannot be expected to be called lazy, nor would they deserve it.

What of those in areas of high unemployment? The coal fields of West Virginia or the decaying Rust Belt? Lack of opportunity does not mean one is lazy, yet it very well could mean one is poor.

Move to where the jobs are? Fine. Who's going to buy your house? How are you to afford to move hundreds of miles away, find new work, find new housing, get your kids settled and survive until all that happens?

Some are turned out by failing school systems. Schools which did not prepare every student to be competent in this world. Some have had tragedy fall upon them, others hunger. These can lead to serious problems integrating into the work force.

It's far too simplistic to blame the condition of poverty squarely at the feet of lassitude. I will concede that there in lies some of the blame.

And it's far too judgmental to rationalize 'good' and 'bad' behavior alone. Even when there is a strong work ethic, even when a family is in the balance, don't dismiss the problem of poverty as merely 'good' or 'bad' behavior.

 

[almostchasma]

I don't know if they are lazy or not but poor people have no business having kids. I mean come on, if you can't afford to have kids then that means that OTHER people will have to pay for your kids in the form of taxes and welfare, etc. So I think a lot of poor people, especially single mothers, are highly irresponsible.

 

[hardcoreconservative98]

It's much more complex than the OP's framing of the question suggests. There are many poor people in America who are hardworking taxpayers, trying to put a roof over their head for themselves and their families, but have just fallen down on hard economic times, and may have been laid off for a better job and are looking for what they can get. There are lazy poor people, however I personally believe those people are a minority.

There are also some lazy rich people who didn't really work hard for their money, but inherited it all from their rich parents. So it goes both ways, IMHO.

 

[AnarchoRealism11]

Millennials are the first generation in American history to be worse off than their parents.

Here are five charts that prove it. 1 in 3 lives at home, more debt than ever before, lower wages, etc.

I'd say one of the biggest factors contributing to a person's socioeconomic status comes down to one thing: time of birth.

Baby boomers rose to the middle class by just working 9 to 5. On a single income, they could afford to buy a house, raise a family, have a car, maybe even take vacations and have a boat or something.

Today, working twice as hard with twice the education, people on two incomes can barely survive. Home ownership is at a 51-year low at least. Millennials are said to be the biggest cause. While many mainstream articles put a positive spin on it, the fact is they can only afford to rent, and many of them live at home still.

In addition to time of birth, family you're born into might be second biggest factor. If you're born into money, or a family that can get you a good job, you're all but set. I've known people who never worked a day in their lives that drive a Mercedes and live in a $500,000 house.

I've known others who worked 60 hour weeks for half a century only to die in debt. Yes, some people pull themselves up by starting a business or investing. In those cases, luck often plays a factor. So hard work can lead one out of poverty, but not always. It's a complex issue with many factors and variations. Not as simple as, "lazy = poor", and, "work ethic = rich"

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't know if they are lazy or not but poor people have no business having kids. I mean come on, if you can't afford to have kids then that means that OTHER people will have to pay for your kids in the form of taxes and welfare, etc. So I think a lot of poor people, especially single mothers, are highly irresponsible.

Most single mothers start out as married or partnered women, but the men leave (for whatever reason), and they're left with their kids, to fend for themselves. The single mothers are the RESPONSIBLE parties here. They're the ones feeding, clothing and caring for their children, when their men leave. What's irresponsible is the men who leave without a second thought for supporting their children, leaving it up to others, or the state to do so.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't know if they are lazy or not but poor people have no business having kids. I mean come on, if you can't afford to have kids then that means that OTHER people will have to pay for your kids in the form of taxes and welfare, etc. So I think a lot of poor people, especially single mothers, are highly irresponsible.

Do you believe getting a tax preference for capital gains, but not creating Jobs Booms, is responsible?

 

[jwoodie]

http://www.what-is-coaching.com/support-files/lazymansway2riches.pdf

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It seems to me that we have been upside down in our thinking, concentrating more on the avoidance of stereotypes, than on the causes and effects resulting in poverty. Is it not undeniable that effort and hard work should be rewarded in our society? Does it not follow that lethargy and slovenliness should not be rewarded?

Since these distinctions are primarily psychological rather than physical, how does making excuses improve this situation?

Or Your Daddy Buying You a Job Through Obsolete Aristocratic Education

What's so lazy about refusing to work without pay, which is all college education means?

Nothing is further from the truth. The better your education is in relative areas, the more you you will be paid.

I'll never understand why the right is so against education and bettering oneself. Best thing I ever did was work for and get a good education. I have no doubt I would not be enjoying the comfortable retirement that I have.




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[Wyatt earp]

As some have stated already there are multiple factors that result in Americans sliding to the bottom end of the scale. In order of importance, this would be my top three:

1. Determination/Ambition. I think you are just born with it.
2. Parental Influence.
3. Intelligence.

So you discount the effect of incentive on behavior? Marx would have agreed with you:

"To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability."

Who says being lazy equates with being poor? What of those working two or three minimum wage jobs? They cannot be expected to be called lazy, nor would they deserve it.

What of those in areas of high unemployment? The coal fields of West Virginia or the decaying Rust Belt? Lack of opportunity does not mean one is lazy, yet it very well could mean one is poor.

Move to where the jobs are? Fine. Who's going to buy your house? How are you to afford to move hundreds of miles away, find new work, find new housing, get your kids settled and survive until all that happens?

Some are turned out by failing school systems. Schools which did not prepare every student to be competent in this world. Some have had tragedy fall upon them, others hunger. These can lead to serious problems integrating into the work force.

It's far too simplistic to blame the condition of poverty squarely at the feet of lassitude. I will concede that there in lies some of the blame.

And it's far too judgmental to rationalize 'good' and 'bad' behavior alone. Even when there is a strong work ethic, even when a family is in the balance, don't dismiss the problem of poverty as merely 'good' or 'bad' behavior.

Did you ever stop and think to answer the question why the decaying rust belt and why those jobs moved



I have a hint on the answer idiots who kept voting for democrats and the unions.


The coal mine jobs idiots who voted for democrats and their 30 plus year war on coal, wbo put so many regulations on them it made it more expensive to produce.

 

[Picaro]

It became the 'Rust Belt' because of stupid self-serving decisions made by arrogant grossly overpaid executives, period. Like Mitt Romney, they made piles of money running their companies into the ground.

 

[Toronado3800]

An individual CAN improve their own lives. But sometimes they DO need a hand.

And how has that "hand" worked out over the past 50 years?

Seems the hand of big government welfare helped keep Trump out of debtor's prison just fine when he was needing to declare bankruptcy.

 

[Toronado3800]

Why should I believe your assumption that "hard work" is rewarded under any form of Capitalism?

Personal experience (or lack thereof)?

I never got ahead by working hard; I got ahead by gambling, speculation, and luck. A real job is a short track to poverty and early death.

I have done pretty well just working. There are a couple thousand people working at the GM plant down the road making real decent money still.

Some of my friends are doing better with speculation, our welfare system allows that. A good family support system helps also.

 

[Nosmo King]

As some have stated already there are multiple factors that result in Americans sliding to the bottom end of the scale. In order of importance, this would be my top three:

1. Determination/Ambition. I think you are just born with it.
2. Parental Influence.
3. Intelligence.

So you discount the effect of incentive on behavior? Marx would have agreed with you:

"To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability."

Who says being lazy equates with being poor? What of those working two or three minimum wage jobs? They cannot be expected to be called lazy, nor would they deserve it.

What of those in areas of high unemployment? The coal fields of West Virginia or the decaying Rust Belt? Lack of opportunity does not mean one is lazy, yet it very well could mean one is poor.

Move to where the jobs are? Fine. Who's going to buy your house? How are you to afford to move hundreds of miles away, find new work, find new housing, get your kids settled and survive until all that happens?

Some are turned out by failing school systems. Schools which did not prepare every student to be competent in this world. Some have had tragedy fall upon them, others hunger. These can lead to serious problems integrating into the work force.

It's far too simplistic to blame the condition of poverty squarely at the feet of lassitude. I will concede that there in lies some of the blame.

And it's far too judgmental to rationalize 'good' and 'bad' behavior alone. Even when there is a strong work ethic, even when a family is in the balance, don't dismiss the problem of poverty as merely 'good' or 'bad' behavior.

Did you ever stop and think to answer the question why the decaying rust belt and why those jobs moved



I have a hint on the answer idiots who kept voting for democrats and the unions.


The coal mine jobs idiots who voted for democrats and their 30 plus year war on coal, wbo put so many regulations on them it made it more expensive to produce.

Oh! If it were really that simple! Blame your political opposition and collective bargaining rights. Forget automation, off shoring, bad trade deals, and real estate red lining.

Honest to God, if it was as simple as union workers getting more while the owners got less you might have a point. But your answers are far too simplistic to be rational.