Appeals to avarice and bigotry, which party is lead by demagogues and charlatans?

[Dragon]

Classical liberalism has nothing in common with modern liberalism.

Sure it does: the ends and values. Both seek to protect the common people from the rich and powerful. The difference is that in the view of classical liberals, the only way the rich and powerful could oppress the common people is if they got the government to do it for them, hence the desire for small, restrained government. Modern liberals recognize that while the rich and powerful will certainly get the government to oppress people on their behalf if they can, they're also capable of doing their own dirty work nowadays.

Classical liberalism always valued small government as a means to an end, not as an end in itself. That's what conservatives don't understand about it. If Adam Smith were alive today, he'd be a socialist.

 

[martybegan]

No windbag, Democrats in general don't respond to jealousy and envy. While some do, most Democrats believe in fairness and the concept of a social contract - in fact it is basic Christianity. Even though some Democrats are agnostic, a large majority of Democrats accept the principles of Christianity. Many conservatives wear the cross of Christianity but ignore its principles. No one ever called a conservative a "bleeding heart".

Fairness is another word for "I want you to give me some of what you have" and the social contract is nothing but a way to make me pay for what YOU think government should do.

Also, the difference between christianity and statist progressivism is that at least christianity is by choice, not by government fiat.

If you spend some time reading history and the works of political philosophers from the 16th and 17th century you might have a different opinion then the one you hold formed by propaganda from the New Right.

Which philosophers are you suggesting? Locke, Rousseau? Just because they were from the past doesnt make them right, look at Marx and Engels.

 

[Dragon]

Which philosophers are you suggesting? Locke, Rousseau? Just because they were from the past doesnt make them right, look at Marx and Engels.

Locke may or may not have been right, but he was certainly a classical liberal, as were Smith, Mill, and Jefferson. Most conservatives who claim that these men were what we would call conservatives today have never read them, or have at best skimmed them, which I believe was the point. They most certainly were not.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Locke and Rousseau, unlike writers such as Marx and Engles and Calhoun and Rand, were much more correct in writing for our needs today. After all, they were classical liberals, unlike almost any far right philosopher today.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The charlatans are in the GOP while the Dems have some wonderful demogogues.

Really? If so why not point out examples? You might consider explaining - with your spin - the rhetoric of Bachmann or Perry and how they're not either demagogues or charlatans. IMHO they're both and little different than the other fools and clowns running for the nomination by reaching out to the far right.

As for Democrats being demagogues you might explain your opinion with more examples.

 

[daveman]

Classical liberalism has nothing in common with modern liberalism.

Sure it does: the ends and values. Both seek to protect the common people from the rich and powerful. The difference is that in the view of classical liberals, the only way the rich and powerful could oppress the common people is if they got the government to do it for them, hence the desire for small, restrained government. Modern liberals recognize that while the rich and powerful will certainly get the government to oppress people on their behalf if they can, they're also capable of doing their own dirty work nowadays.

Classical liberalism always valued small government as a means to an end, not as an end in itself. That's what conservatives don't understand about it. If Adam Smith were alive today, he'd be a socialist.

I'm sure it comforts you to feel that way.

 

[Steelplate]

What do the Democrats appeal to? Jealousy and envy? Given a choice between an appeal to my greedy side and my petty, jealous side, I chose the greedy side because I would rather be Scrooge than Cinderella's stepsisters.

No windbag, Democrats in general don't respond to jealousy and envy. While some do, most Democrats believe in fairness and the concept of a social contract - in fact it is basic Christianity. Even though some Democrats are agnostic, a large majority of Democrats accept the principles of Christianity. Many conservatives wear the cross of Christianity but ignore its principles. No one ever called a conservative a "bleeding heart".

Fairness is another word for "I want you to give me some of what you have" and the social contract is nothing but a way to make me pay for what YOU think government should do.

Also, the difference between christianity and statist progressivism is that at least christianity is by choice, not by government fiat.

No, it's not.... unless you want to burn in hell... then there really isn't much choice at all, is there?

 

[Steelplate]

Both. The Republican vs. Democrat feud is just Show Biz. When will people learn? It's the Global elite organizations who are pulling all the strings. These squabbles are just meant to entertain the masses who don't know any better. Both Political Parties work for the same Bosses. That's the reality.

Yep... get the money out of politics....Let them do their jobs... It's not entirely the politicians' fault...it's the system.

 

[Steelplate]

Imagine how shocked I was to discover that a liberal is whining about conservatives. Lord, I am bored with the moronic whining on this board.

As opposed to Conservatives whining about unions, Gays and abortion? Hypocrite.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What do the Democrats appeal to? Jealousy and envy? Given a choice between an appeal to my greedy side and my petty, jealous side, I chose the greedy side because I would rather be Scrooge than Cinderella's stepsisters.

No windbag, Democrats in general don't respond to jealousy and envy. While some do, most Democrats believe in fairness and the concept of a social contract - in fact it is basic Christianity. Even though some Democrats are agnostic, a large majority of Democrats accept the principles of Christianity. Many conservatives wear the cross of Christianity but ignore its principles. No one ever called a conservative a "bleeding heart".

Fairness is another word for "I want you to give me some of what you have" and the social contract is nothing but a way to make me pay for what YOU think government should do.

Also, the difference between christianity and statist progressivism is that at least christianity is by choice, not by government fiat.

Fairness means a level playing field, it does not mean or suggest someone wants anymore than an equal opportunity or that I (or others) want the wallet of others.

You clearly have no idea of what Social Contract theory means.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No windbag, Democrats in general don't respond to jealousy and envy. While some do, most Democrats believe in fairness and the concept of a social contract - in fact it is basic Christianity. Even though some Democrats are agnostic, a large majority of Democrats accept the principles of Christianity. Many conservatives wear the cross of Christianity but ignore its principles. No one ever called a conservative a "bleeding heart".

Did I say they did? I said that, given a choice, I would respond better to greed, but the leaders of the Democratic Party, aka Barrack Obama, want me to be jealous of rich people. Since even you admit this is a bad strategy, you must really want to be a Republican, and just go Democrat because you don't want to look greedy.

I'm not jealous of great wealth, if I were I wouldn't attend NFL and MLB games. I simply believe in the efficacy that is the American dream. Some people amass great wealth by the fortune of birth, others by hard work and others by exploitation. It's not for me to judge; I do however judge that a progressive income tax is important for our unique form of democracy and efforts by the New Right to push a "fair tax" is nothing more than an effort to change our country into an oligarchy.

We are all in this together even though the New Right actually believes that each of us is an Island onto itself. Suggesting Obama's insistence on the very wealthy to pay more in taxes is class warfare is simply one more example of the 'twitter' mentality of those of you on the new right, any comment more that 141 (?) characters is too much to absorb and anything less must be accepted as immutable truths as long as it fits into the simplistic dogma of the New Right.

Let me try this again, I am not saying you are jealous of anything. The question you asked is which party is led by demagogues and charlatans. You seem to think that me pointing out the Democratic version of those is somehow an attack on you, or even Democrats in general. Maybe I should start taking your attacks on Republicans personally even though I am not a Republican, the problem is that I am smarter than that.

 

[Dot Com]

Which party has used other people's money as an electoral ploy since 1932? FDR pioneered the use of class warfare in politics. The current resident at 1600 Pennsylvania has taken class warfare rhetoric to new and unprecedented heights, while waging race warfare as well.

FIRST post in the thread

 

[Billy000]

Honestly, can there be any doubt?

If not the GOP, why do you believe otherwise?

Polls show that most Americans believe it is the GOP.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The charlatans are in the GOP while the Dems have some wonderful demogogues.

Really? If so why not point out examples? You might consider explaining - with your spin - the rhetoric of Bachmann or Perry and how they're not either demagogues or charlatans. IMHO they're both and little different than the other fools and clowns running for the nomination by reaching out to the far right.

As for Democrats being demagogues you might explain your opinion with more examples.

This is opinion, Wry Catcher: if you have trouble with it, don't read it. What I wrote I believe to be true. Accept or reject, I really don't care.

 

[daveman]

No windbag, Democrats in general don't respond to jealousy and envy. While some do, most Democrats believe in fairness and the concept of a social contract - in fact it is basic Christianity. Even though some Democrats are agnostic, a large majority of Democrats accept the principles of Christianity. Many conservatives wear the cross of Christianity but ignore its principles. No one ever called a conservative a "bleeding heart".

Fairness is another word for "I want you to give me some of what you have" and the social contract is nothing but a way to make me pay for what YOU think government should do.

Also, the difference between christianity and statist progressivism is that at least christianity is by choice, not by government fiat.

Fairness means a level playing field, it does not mean or suggest someone wants anymore than an equal opportunity or that I (or others) want the wallet of others.

You clearly have no idea of what Social Contract theory means.

And you clearly have no idea what the party you support wants to do.

Hint: Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do. You'll find the two have little in common.

 

[chikenwing]

Both of them

 

[California Girl]

Honestly, can there be any doubt?

If not the GOP, why do you believe otherwise?

Polls show that most Americans believe it is the GOP.

Must be embarrassing to be as moronic as you.

 

[WillowTree]

demoncrats are charlatans, evil doers and envy, engage in class warfare, social engineering, and racial warfare, they divide the country like no one else ever has. and obamie is their leader in chief.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have just described the far wack right of Americans, WillowTree.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You have just described the far wack right of Americans, WillowTree.

Willow Tree offers little more than an echo. There is no evidence in any of her many many posts to suggest she holds opinions based on anything but emotions, emotions ruled by hate and fear fostered by the right wing talking heads. Sadly, she is not alone and is one of many too ignorant and too dishonest to actually debate contemporary issues on policy and governance.