American Interests

[Aquarian]

while shutting down a paper to promote freedom sounds wrong on the surface, I have to agree with jim that it is a necessary evil given the situation. Our own country went thru similar 'birth pangs' as it were during the course of maturation of our society ala the alien and sedition acts during the world wars (can't recall when offhand specifically). One can also liken it to the prohibition against yelling fire in a theatre. while technically a restriction of the freedom of speech, it's arguably necessary for the preservation of order and the prevention of physical injury. The same rule applies here. Advocating violence during the period that a stable, iraqi run, iraqi approved govt is being established is counterproductive. they can have all the freedom of press they want once their gov't is in place, that is if the new iraqi gov't that THEY elect approves of such. That is still in doubt until the provisionary constitution is put in place, and somewhat in doubt until the elections and constitutional referendum are performed (currently targetted to occur next january).

my 2 cents.

 

[RavenMaster]

I just would like to say that yes soldiers have killed civilians because they have not let them into their home. Yes there is only one definition for freedom but we are limiting the freedom hundreds of people died for by shutting down the newspaper. We have anti-america newspapers here to, we neevr shut them down. Iraq should have more freedom in electing their officials because it is their country not ours. And lastly this country was founded on the right to protest what we don't agree on. Just because you don't agree with something America does never means you are unpatriotic, or a "pathetic asshole".

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by RavenMaster
I just would like to say that yes soldiers have killed civilians because they have not let them into their home.

Sources? I'd like to read the full story.

Yes there is only one definition for freedom but we are limiting the freedom hundreds of people died for by shutting down the newspaper. We have anti-america newspapers here to, we neevr shut them down.

Last time I checked we didn't have insurgents running around killing people in the USA.

Iraq should have more freedom in electing their officials because it is their country not ours.

And there will be a general election.

And lastly this country was founded on the right to protest what we don't agree on. Just because you don't agree with something America does never means you are unpatriotic, or a "pathetic asshole".

Anyone that calls our soldiers murderers, celebrates the fall of the WTC or calls for violence to our soldiers is a pathetic asshole

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
thats one surefire way to continue strife and mischief around the world.

American interests should be considered right alongside world interests, since we do indeed all live in the same world.

Nah, USA interests come FIRST all others must prove themselves worthy. You are one of the scoundrels who cause mischief.

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Scourge
I'm looking for thoughts on this idea.

American interests should come first.(before world interests, international law, environmental, and the like).

I will say that when it comes to matters of USA security and well- being then of course we should look out for ourselves. And If you don't believe that then I think you should find another home.

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Scourge
The original statement was worded awkwardly (sorry).

I guess certain instances of American history seem to show we care about #1 and damn the consequences. This tone has been set by previous administraions, and by the current one. Never apologizing for this country, Bush 1 saying 'I don't care what the facts are' when questioned about the army mistakingly(?) killing civillians (I forget which country it was). I guess Bush 2 invading Iraq NOT because they gassed Kurds, NOT because they were trying to attack us, but because of 'American Interests' and how America needs the middle east to be to satisfy those interests. Even trying to say the U.N. is worthless when they don't fall in line with us is a classic example of our attitude.

Will we even allow an anti-U.S. Iraqi government to be elected?

I sure hope the fuck not, and if we do we should be shot!

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by William Joyce
America? I thought we lived in Israel. I mean, I was just assuming that based on our media coverage and our military policy. Am I wrong?

Seems you are ALWAYS wrong, and have no clue to boot.

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by RavenMaster
America should do whatever they can to help their citizens. That includes listening to them once in a while. But America should not come first worldly. We are only one country and everyone else on earth needs the amount of attention necessary for their situation when it comes to the U.N and such. It all depends on what you mean by "come first"

Please don't bring the U.seless N.ations into matters of the USA.

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Scourge
You said shutting down a paper was promoting freedom? Whose freedom? Not Iraqis...

Soldiers doing their jobs? pardon me, but if their job included murdering some civilians then they should have to deal with those family members anger...

And lastly, we will help them achieve a goal of freedom and democracy, their version or ours?

If it isn't their choice of government, it is neither freedom nor democracy. No matter how palatable and profitable it may be for the USA.

If you think we fought this war for profit, you are deranged and misguided. If you think we indescrimenently kill innocent civilians you are reatrded and misguided... Hey that equates to 2 strikes, keep huffing and puffing and you will surely whiff on the third pitch.

 

[MadMax]

Hey I have the answer!!! Lets let em forge an ANTI-AMERICAN fundementalist Islamic Gov.... How contructive could that be??? Hell let the minority intimidate the majority and you would think that is o.k.??? You do understand that we would eventually have to blow em up if they chose to be our enemy???

 

[Scourge]

Easy on the personal attacks, people.

Jimnyc wrote:
Anyone that calls our soldiers murderers, celebrates the fall of the WTC or calls for violence to our soldiers is a pathetic asshole

You called me that and I never said those things. Soldiers HAVE murdered civilians, you said so yourself under the guise of colateral damage I believe (I'm paraphrasing) but that doesn't mean SOLDIOERS ARE MURDERERS. Just that some have murderd civilians. Dropping bombs or shooting bullets it doesn't matter. it's still killing.

And whoever likened yelling 'Fire' in a crowded theatre to a newspaper is making a poor analogy. News stories can be analyzed and understood, disregarded, etc. People just have to react to FIRE! being shouted. Do I need to go on?

MADMAX: I didn't say we fought the war for profit, I asked if we would allow a government to be elected that was NOT profitable to the US (in so many words).
You say we didn't fight this war for profit? We just started caring about Iraqis lives in 2002? What about every other coutry that has had shitty tyrants in charge (even ones we put into power)? Do we care about their freedom? or their oppressive leaders? We never gave a shit what Saddam did to his or any other people. in fact he gassed his own people and we still didnt care.

But all of a sudden we do. now that there are no WMDs its all about freedom. Freedom to institute a puppet government and control the media of this country.

And lastly for JIM:

Have any of America's soldiers been killed by people who are NOT terrorists, or 'insurgents'?

Have any normal Iraqis, fed up with an occupying army (GWB's words) attacked and killed soldiers/private militia?

If so, what is that? justice?

Or are they evil enemies hell bent on destroying America?

 

[jimnyc]

Jimnyc wrote:
Anyone that calls our soldiers murderers, celebrates the fall of the WTC or calls for violence to our soldiers is a pathetic asshole

You called me that and I never said those things.

What part of "anyone" did you not understand? If you fall into one of those categories - then you are a pathetic asshole. If none apply - don't have such a conscience.

Soldiers HAVE murdered civilians, you said so yourself under the guise of colateral damage I believe (I'm paraphrasing) but that doesn't mean SOLDIOERS ARE MURDERERS. Just that some have murderd civilians. Dropping bombs or shooting bullets it doesn't matter. it's still killing.

Make up your mind, is it murder or killing? And yes, there is a difference. And if you claim they are murderers, provide proof that they set out and murdered people. Don't be lame as usual and claim any killing is murder - because it's not.

Have any of America's soldiers been killed by people who are NOT terrorists, or 'insurgents'?

Doubtful. The minute one picks up a weapon and fires on a US soldier they are an insurgent contributing to the problem.

Have any normal Iraqis, fed up with an occupying army (GWB's words) attacked and killed soldiers/private militia?

Yes, they are called insurgents.

If so, what is that? justice?

I would hardly call killing the people that are trying to free your country of terrorists and insurgents 'justice'.

Or are they evil enemies hell bent on destroying America?

Nope, just radical idiots that are trying to kill the very people who are trying to help them.

We just started caring about Iraqis lives in 2002?

For those of us that don't live under rocks, this started in 1991. After 12 years and many failed resolutions and negotiations, the US finally decided to remove Saddam and his regime.

But all of a sudden we do. now that there are no WMDs its all about freedom.

Read the resolutions again, and this time try very hard to comprehend them. Freedom from oppression has been a major part from the very beginning. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[MtnBiker]

Hey Math!

Before you post here, you had better check out this post:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=98096#post98096

We don't want to see a repeat of your flood posting!

 

[Felix]

"American interests should come first.(before world interests, international law, environmental, and the like)."

I know why all people all over the world hate americans. U will pay with many lives for this opinion.

Bush and u americans r makin "normal" citizens (and christs) to terrorists. I would like to give my life when Bush or thousands of u americans come with me to hell.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by Felix
"American interests should come first.(before world interests, international law, environmental, and the like)."

I know why all people all over the world hate americans. U will pay with many lives for this opinion.

Bush and u americans r makin "normal" citizens (and christs) to terrorists. I would like to give my life when Bush or thousands of u americans come with me to hell.

All nations put their interests first. Why should us doing so be any differeent? I dont believe for one second that the "whole world" hates us. If they did we wouldnt be working with so many of them on good causes.

As for the final paragraph, what the heck is a "normal" christs? that doesnt make any sense. you want to go to hell? i suppose thats your perogative. I am afraid ill be avoiding the place myself.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Felix

Bush and u americans r makin "normal" citizens (and christs) to terrorists. I would like to give my life when Bush or thousands of u americans come with me to hell.

Are you saying you want to kill americans?

 

[Felix]

Thats what i said !!!

 

[MtnBiker]

Say goodbye asshole!

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
Say goodbye asshole!

Goodbye asshole!

 

[scubamike]

In many cases American interests would be best served by taking into account other interests.

America cannot do everything by itself so needs to keep on reasonably good terms with other countries for their support. This means abiding by international law. Besides which if America is seen to be breaching international law it wouldn't take long for everyone else to start doing so, which would harm America.

Environmental issues are just as important to the USA as the rest of the world.
In a country which already has regular floods, droughts, tornados and hurricanes climate change will make things even worse and the USA is the biggest polluting nation by a long shot. But the lobbyists have control on that issue.

Every empire has fallen. One day America will to, as will the EU, etc.