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Objective truth is universal. Subjective truth is not. Objective truth withstands the test of time. Subjective truth does not. You are confusing relative morals for absolute morals. Absolute morals state that slavery is wrong, has always been wrong and will always be wrong. So the flaw in your argument is using relative morals as a test for universal morals. The error you are trying to prove is not in morality. The error is in your presentation of morality. Men can and have justified just about any dumbass behavior. They might even have a majority of people convinced they are right, but since error cannot stand, the flaw in the rationalization will always reveal itself eventually. Natural Law is discovered and once discovered it will be known that it was always true and will always be true. Natural Law will not need a rationalization that a wrong is right and will hold men accountable to highest possible standard. That is how you will know you have discovered it. There won't be a higher standard that exists.Look... no Jefferson and the point still stands.Jefferson believed in the divine, a form of warm deism. He venerated the moral teachings of Christ, and spurned the fables and miracles of the Bible (no Virgin Birth or resurrection for TJ). He called himself a Christian of "a sect of one."
Ding is misreading Jefferson in order to tie him into latter day 'Jesus in America' nonsensical history.
Throughout the first century of US. history, natural law was upheld as a key principle of government by the American people and their leader, not only by Presidents and the Congress, but also by the Supreme Court.
In the view of the Court, its members were to decide cases by exercising “that understanding which Providence has bestowed upon them.” (Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. 1, 186-87, 1824). Since the laws they adjudicated were based on “the preexisting and higher authority of the laws of nature,” (The West River Bridge Company v. Joseph Dix, 47 U.S. 507, 532, 1848), they relied less on judicial precedent than on “eternal justice as it comes from intelligence… to guide the conscience of the Court.” (Rhode Island v. Massachusetts, 39 U.S. 210, 225, 1840).
Cicero defines Natural Law as “true law.” “True law is right reason in agreement with nature; it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions…. It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish entirely. We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people, and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it. And there will not be different laws at Rome and Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler, that is God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge. Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst punishment.” (The Five thousand Year Leap, p. 40)
In 1764, Massachusetts patriot James Otis defined Natural Law as “the rules of moral conduct implanted by nature in the human mind, forming the proper basis for and being superior to all written laws; the will of God revealed to man through his conscience.” (Annals of America, 2:11)
Natural Law: The Basis of Moral Government - National Center for Constitutional Studies
“The law of nature is that which God at the time of creation of the nature of man infused into his heart, for his preservation and direction…the moral law, called also the law of nature.” (Sir Edward Coke, Calvin’s Case in The Selected Writings and Speeches of Sir Edward Coke)
“…as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should, in all points, conform to his Maker's will. This will of his Maker is called the law of nature...This law of nature...dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority...from this original. "Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these." (William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Law 1723-1780)
“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.” (James Wilson “Of the General Principles of Law and Obligation”, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Signed U.S. Constitution)
The problem with 'Natural Law" is it is whatever people decide it is- and as long as 'natural law' is not codified into actual law- it is nothing but a vague concept.
Lets look at the Declaration of Independence- cited by the OP.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
But the writers of the Declaration of Independence didn't actually think that all men are created equal. The slave born into chattel bondage was not considered as created equal- nor were they born into liberty.
And what about women? Does this apply to women? The men who wrote this did not believe that. Which is why Jane Addams had to ask John not to forget the women- who were not born equal to men.
And the 'pursuit of Happiness'- Colonial United States happily passed laws restricting the rights of men(and women) regarding their pursuit of Happiness.
What is "natural law"?
Mostly it is a device by those who want to appeal to something besides the written law.
Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?In the way you define it, the founders did not think of it that way.
You have to make the connection rather than assert it.
You have failed to do so.
That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
"The prevailing ideas entertained by him [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature – that it was wrong in principle – socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent [temporary] and pass away. " Corner Stone” Speech, Alexander H. Stephens, Savannah, Georgia, March 21, 1861That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
"...there was an expectation that on the ceasing of the importation of slaves from Africa, slavery would begin to run out. That was hoped and expected." Daniel Webster, THE CONSTITUTION AND THE UNION 1, March 7, 1850, (In the Senate), Page 273That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
"The prevailing ideas entertained by him [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature – that it was wrong in principle – socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent [temporary] and pass away. " Corner Stone” Speech, Alexander H. Stephens, Savannah, Georgia, March 21, 1861That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
In 1808, Congress abolishing the slave trade at the earliest date allowed per ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution. Thus proving that the intent of ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution was to end the slave trade.That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
Thy didn't. They codified the ending of it."The prevailing ideas entertained by him [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature – that it was wrong in principle – socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent [temporary] and pass away. " Corner Stone” Speech, Alexander H. Stephens, Savannah, Georgia, March 21, 1861That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
So let me see if I get this right- Thomas Jefferson- believed that slavery was a violation of 'the laws of nature'- but bought and sold slaves his entire life- and helped created a country that legally codified slavery.
Based upon the speech of a man who spoke some 60 years after Jefferson died.
IF the Founders believed that slavery was wrong- why did they codify it into the Constitution?
Still waiting for your rationalization regarding women.
"...there was an expectation that on the ceasing of the importation of slaves from Africa, slavery would begin to run out. That was hoped and expected." Daniel Webster, THE CONSTITUTION AND THE UNION 1, March 7, 1850, (In the Senate), Page 273That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/Webster7th.pdf
Frederick Douglas - a former slave - believed that the 3/5th clause is an anti-slavery clause. Not a pro-slavery clause. Frederick Douglas believed that the Constitution was an anti-slavery document."The prevailing ideas entertained by him [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature – that it was wrong in principle – socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent [temporary] and pass away. " Corner Stone” Speech, Alexander H. Stephens, Savannah, Georgia, March 21, 1861That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History
So let me see if I get this right- Thomas Jefferson- believed that slavery was a violation of 'the laws of nature'- but bought and sold slaves his entire life- and helped created a country that legally codified slavery.
Based upon the speech of a man who spoke some 60 years after Jefferson died.
IF the Founders believed that slavery was wrong- why did they codify it into the Constitution?
Still waiting for your rationalization regarding women.
In 1808, Congress abolishing the slave trade at the earliest date allowed per ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution. Thus proving that the intent of ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution was to end the slave trade.That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Hardly, dingle. You don't grasp the concept is the problem. Keep studying Jefferson, ALL of Jefferson, and you may get it.
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves - Wikipedia
No. That isn't right either. They could not form the union and end slavery at the same time. So they negotiated with the southern states a date that the importation of slaves could be abolished. Then they abolished it at the earliest date allowed per the Constitution."...there was an expectation that on the ceasing of the importation of slaves from Africa, slavery would begin to run out. That was hoped and expected." Daniel Webster, THE CONSTITUTION AND THE UNION 1, March 7, 1850, (In the Senate), Page 273That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/Webster7th.pdf
So the Founders- great believers in Natural Law- knew that what they did was wrong- but did it anyway- because they hoped that slavery would just go away....
Oh when was the importation of slaves made illegal?
1808- a full twenty years after the 'founders' wrote a Constitution that explicitly allowed Slavery- apparently knowing that they were 'violating Natural Law'
America Was Built on Natural Law
As our forefathers sought to build “one nation under God,” they purposely established their legal codes on the foundation of Natural Law. They believed that societies should be governed, as Jefferson put it, by “the moral law to which man has been subjected by his Creator, and of which his feelings, or conscience as it is sometimes called, are the evidence with which his Creator has furnished him. The moral duties which exist between individual and individual in a state of nature accompany them into a state of society,… their Maker not having released them from those duties on their forming themselves into a nation.” (Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 3:228)
Throughout the first century of US. history, natural law was upheld as a key principle of government by the American people and their leader, not only by Presidents and the Congress, but also by the Supreme Court.
In the view of the Court, its members were to decide cases by exercising “that understanding which Providence has bestowed upon them.” (Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. 1, 186-87, 1824). Since the laws they adjudicated were based on “the preexisting and higher authority of the laws of nature,” (The West River Bridge Company v. Joseph Dix, 47 U.S. 507, 532, 1848), they relied less on judicial precedent than on “eternal justice as it comes from intelligence… to guide the conscience of the Court.” (Rhode Island v. Massachusetts, 39 U.S. 210, 225, 1840).
Cicero defines Natural Law as “true law.” “True law is right reason in agreement with nature; it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions…. It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish entirely. We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people, and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it. And there will not be different laws at Rome and Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler, that is God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge. Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst punishment.” (The Five thousand Year Leap, p. 40)
In 1764, Massachusetts patriot James Otis defined Natural Law as “the rules of moral conduct implanted by nature in the human mind, forming the proper basis for and being superior to all written laws; the will of God revealed to man through his conscience.” (Annals of America, 2:11)
Natural Law: The Basis of Moral Government - National Center for Constitutional Studies
“The law of nature is that which God at the time of creation of the nature of man infused into his heart, for his preservation and direction…the moral law, called also the law of nature.” (Sir Edward Coke, Calvin’s Case in The Selected Writings and Speeches of Sir Edward Coke)
“…as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should, in all points, conform to his Maker's will. This will of his Maker is called the law of nature...This law of nature...dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority...from this original. "Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these." (William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Law 1723-1780)
“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.” (James Wilson “Of the General Principles of Law and Obligation”, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Signed U.S. Constitution)
They didn't. They never mentioned it by name because they did not wish to endorse it. They hated it as much as you hate them.In 1808, Congress abolishing the slave trade at the earliest date allowed per ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution. Thus proving that the intent of ARTICLE I, SECTION 9, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution was to end the slave trade.That too is false. Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?Can you show anything that explicitly states that our founders did not believe in natural law?
Apparently the Natural Law they believed included slavery and unequal status for women.
Can you show where I said that I thought our founders did not believe in natural law?
Or maybe address my point instead- which you are so desperately avoiding.
Apparently the Natural Law the Founders believed in included slavery and unequal status for women
Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves - Wikipedia
Thanks for pointing out that the Founders specifically and explicitely recognized slavery in the Constitution.
They didn't just hope that. They actually did pass laws.So lets say that you decided that "Natural Law" said that eating animals was wrong.
Would you keep eating animals the rest of your life?
And just hope that some future generation would actually pass laws to prevent the eating of animals?
That is what you are saying happened with the Founding of the United States.
